OMG it's a tier list

[Fenrir]

It's not possible. Haar needs to gain spd on all 9 of his level ups. He has 35% spd growth. Even with a weapon and band alteration, that only brings it up to 45%, which is 5% short of the magic number needed to get +spd on every abused BEXP level up.

as soul mentioned, speedwings r ur fix here.

jill anyone? does anyone give a crap about her?

[Junkhead]

He's saying that it's impossible to get his Spd capping in Fixed Mode through normal means.

I went through Random Mode and used a Speedwings and bands to get his Spd capping.

[Interceptor]

jill anyone? does anyone give a crap about her?

What about her? I'm a Jill fan after my efficient run. She has four really good chapters, with stand-out performances, plus Endgame (where she is one of the best beorcs). She needs help in Part 1, but she has a couple of unique utility opportunities, some chances to train herself for free, and she uses resources well. She can't do 3-6 alone, but she's pretty effective there given the right circumstances. Adds up to a High tier performance in my estimation.

The only differences between Jill and Jill(T) are that the (T) version is immediately useful, gets up to speed much more quickly, and can get by without an Energy Drop. These sound like a big things, except Jill(T) is probably not looking at a substantially bigger Part 1 footprint (prepromos already doing the heavy lifting), and the gap between them vanishes into the Land of Lost Socks late in tier 2 when she starts capping things. Both Jills will probably show up in tier 3 with 30-ish STR and 27 SPD.

Maybe Jill(T)'s team is a bit more powerful because Volug or Nolan can take the Energy Drop more easily, and 3-6 goes a touch faster because she doubles Tigers more quickly with higher accuracy, but...

[Narga_Rocks]

Maybe Jill(T)'s team is a bit more powerful because Volug or Nolan can take the Energy Drop more easily, and 3-6 goes a touch faster because she doubles Tigers more quickly with higher accuracy, but...

At the moment, Ulki > Nolan > Shinon > Jill(T) > Rafiel. (ignoring the other T units because I don't feel like thinking about them at the moment)

Are you suggesting Jill(T) = Jill(N) (well, Jill(T) > Jill(N) but not by enough to beat any unit that Jill(N) isn't already beating)?

Also, would you move Jill(T)/Nolan at all from these spots? Would anyone?

[RNG Princess]

I agree with whoever said Haar/Ike > Reyson mainly for stages where Reyson is absent Haar manages to shave turns faster and another thing about Reyson is that 1 or 2 turn wait for him to be able to refresh 1+ units.

Also Jill is definitely convenient to have around from beginning to end I could see her over Laura and maybe Nephenee and Naesala.

Jill(T) and Jill(N) have a gap in between, Jill(T) gets to double and hit more reliably and has better defenses and maybe better resistance. (sorry I shouldn't count my Jill)

Edited July 29, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Narga_Rocks]

Jill(T) and Jill(N) have a gap in between, Jill(T) gets to double and hit more reliably and has better defenses and maybe better resistance. (sorry I shouldn't count my Jill)

If there aren't any units in between the (T) and (N) versions of the same character, we don't separate them. We just put Unitname (N/T) on the tier list and it is understood that if there are stats listed beside N/T then T gets them from PoR and is obviously > the (N) version by however much those stats are worth, but not enough to be better than a unit that the (N) version isn't already beating.

See: Zihark, Shinon.

Clearly, Zihark(T) > Zihark(N), but if Zihark(T) doesn't beat anyone that Zihark(N) isn't already beating there isn't any point of listing him separately.

[RNG Princess]

If there aren't any units in between the (T) and (N) versions of the same character, we don't separate them. We just put Unitname (N/T) on the tier list and it is understood that if there are stats listed beside N/T then T gets them from PoR and is obviously > the (N) version by however much those stats are worth, but not enough to be better than a unit that the (N) version isn't already beating.

See: Zihark, Shinon.

Clearly, Zihark(T) > Zihark(N), but if Zihark(T) doesn't beat anyone that Zihark(N) isn't already beating there isn't any point of listing him separately.

Oh I see :)

I think Jill(T) is better than Zihark but I'm not sure about the rest in that gap.

[Shadow Mir]

Although if we're going to mention 3-P and 3-1, don't forget that Haar shaves a lot of turns off 2-E by killing Ludveck. You can do it with Elincia, but not as reliably.

Except Haar may either get killed by a critical or miss. Elincia has to worry about neither.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[Fayt Zelpher]

Except Haar may either get killed by a critical or miss. Elincia has to worry about neither.

On the other hand, she does have to worry about all those archers and crossbow warriors, which are admittedly far scarier than a miss or a critical.

[-Cynthia-]

She also falls short of ORKOing Ludveck, so she'll need a Stun proc or another attacker.

[Junkhead]

I don't see how Haar 1RKOs Ludveck. Elincia has a much higher possiblity, as she does have higher Avo and is only worrying of bows. She can kill of a Crossbow and later aproach Ludveck.

[Fayt Zelpher]

I don't see how Haar 1RKOs Ludveck. Elincia has a much higher possiblity, as she does have higher Avo and is only worrying of bows. She can kill of a Crossbow and later aproach Ludveck.

Haar doubling with a hammer does it quite well.

[-Cynthia-]

Right. Haar does have to fear the thunder mages, but the don't ORKO him like the Xbows do to Elincia and they have less Hit. Not to mention thunder mages are easy to ORKO (even Nealuchi/Marcia can do it), while Warriors/Snipers are harder.

Only snag might be hit rates, due to Hammer he's only at about 80% true, but that's still pretty good.

[Fayt Zelpher]

Only snag might be hit rates, due to Hammer he's only at about 80% true, but that's still pretty good.

80 percent means 64 percent with both hits connecting. A little higher if there's a critical chance (I don't think there is, but just throwing that out.)

I think I calculated that base Elincia has about a 77% chance of getting Stun at best biorhythm, plus she has to avoid some archers first. All in all, if Haar can do it, he's a lot safer and less prone to biorhythm issues and the like.

[Narga_Rocks]

Regardless of what this site says about bio, I'm pretty sure player units all start at step 1 on their bio when they first appear and every turn thereafter they move one over. It remembers chapter to chapter. Meaning Elincia spends the first part of chapter 2-E at bad or worst bio. If anyone has a save, check just to make sure. It's possible that they start at a random part of their bio, but I don't think so. I know that chapter to chapter should be continuous and not starting each one at a random spot. FE9 on the other hand I think really is random.

Haar should start 2-E on "good", since he doesn't appear at the start of 2-P. If anyone has a save just after finishing 1-E, though, telling us where everyone starts on their bios would be great. As would reloading from the save multiple times to make sure. As long as it is the save the game prompts you to make once you seize in 1-E, anyway. Anything after that may have already "decided" what bio to give units, should the game do that (though there may only be one save option between seizing and the start of 2-P. In fact, there probably is).

[Anouleth]

80 percent means 64 percent with both hits connecting. A little higher if there's a critical chance (I don't think there is, but just throwing that out.)

I think I calculated that base Elincia has about a 77% chance of getting Stun at best biorhythm, plus she has to avoid some archers first. All in all, if Haar can do it, he's a lot safer and less prone to biorhythm issues and the like.

Haar has to avoid an Elthunder Sage himself, I think.

Well, in my experience you can pretty much kill everything on the bottom layer by about Turn 5 anyway, at which point Elincia/Haar can tag-team Ludveck for a reliable kill. He's still really good for holding chokepoints and killing stuff on the lower layer, and obviously Marcia can't team up with Elincia for the boss kill.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Slowking

[Ether]

Even I figured out that she wasn't serious, Ether. And we all know how good I am at detecting sarcasm on the internet (I swear I'm really good when I can actually hear people's voices. Honest).

And people are ignoring Ike (T). Reyson isn't at the top. Well, I suppose if you just look at RD without PoR then that's different.

Anyway, I'll be applying my own Pavise to the Reyson thing until I stop feeling bad about lowering him. It sounds like dondon wants Sothe > Reyson in high tier. I'm so not ready to do that. Ike > Haar > Reyson > Volug I could perhaps live with. Haar > Ike is tough for me, too.

Well,I was pretty sure that she was joking as well, but it is always best to be sure,no? If I had been incorrect,and she was serious,I wouldn't want to have her end up disliking me over something like that.

[RNG Princess]

Where do you get that hammer in 2-E? Or do you take it off Kieran on 2-3?

[dondon151]

Buy it and put it in the convoy. You don't need a Hammer for 2-3.

[Colonel M]

You take it off Kieran in 2-3 and give it to Marcia.

Edit: dammit slower than the pope today.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Colonel M

[Shadow Mir]

80 percent means 64 percent with both hits connecting. A little higher if there's a critical chance (I don't think there is, but just throwing that out.)

I think I calculated that base Elincia has about a 77% chance of getting Stun at best biorhythm, plus she has to avoid some archers first. All in all, if Haar can do it, he's a lot safer and less prone to biorhythm issues and the like.

I dunno. A slightly higher than 1 in 3 chance that hammer Haar fails to one-round sounds pretty significant. Also, I already pointed out why this isn't foolproof.

Regardless of what this site says about bio, I'm pretty sure player units all start at step 1 on their bio when they first appear and every turn thereafter they move one over. It remembers chapter to chapter. Meaning Elincia spends the first part of chapter 2-E at bad or worst bio. If anyone has a save, check just to make sure. It's possible that they start at a random part of their bio, but I don't think so. I know that chapter to chapter should be continuous and not starting each one at a random spot. FE9 on the other hand I think really is random.

Haar should start 2-E on "good", since he doesn't appear at the start of 2-P. If anyone has a save just after finishing 1-E, though, telling us where everyone starts on their bios would be great. As would reloading from the save multiple times to make sure. As long as it is the save the game prompts you to make once you seize in 1-E, anyway. Anything after that may have already "decided" what bio to give units, should the game do that (though there may only be one save option between seizing and the start of 2-P. In fact, there probably is).

Enemy biorhythm is random (that is, short of the part 4 generic beorc).

Haar has to avoid an Elthunder Sage himself, I think.

Well, in my experience you can pretty much kill everything on the bottom layer by about Turn 5 anyway, at which point Elincia/Haar can tag-team Ludveck for a reliable kill. He's still really good for holding chokepoints and killing stuff on the lower layer, and obviously Marcia can't team up with Elincia for the boss kill.

Yes, there's an Elthunder Sage down there.

Where do you get that hammer in 2-E? Or do you take it off Kieran on 2-3?

It's bought in the bargain bin in 2-3.

EDIT: Beaten by the Colonel and dondon151...

Edited July 29, 2010 by Ein Lanford

[dondon151]

Anyway, I have a 3-turn strategy on 2-E that allows you to get the Energy Drop, Dracoshield, and does not require anyone to survive an exorbitant amount of hits. Calill needs to Meteor Ludveck so that Haar is a clean OHKO. I think nflchamp did it in 3 turns while doing all of the above and getting Nullify as well.

[Fenrir]

Anyway, I have a 3-turn strategy on 2-E that allows you to get the Energy Drop, Dracoshield, and does not require anyone to survive an exorbitant amount of hits. Calill needs to Meteor Ludveck so that Haar is a clean OHKO. I think nflchamp did it in 3 turns while doing all of the above and getting Nullify as well.

you need to enlighten me of this strategy.

as for the jill st00f, to to the spot where jill(T) is? she should at least jump above zihark, she beats him on 2 stages in P1(out of z's four) and all the rest of the game.

That puts jill to the top of upper-mid, and i think there is a big gap between zihark and jill, therefore jill goes to high.might as well throw her above rafiel while we're at it

[RNG Princess]

Haar can double with hammer right? Given the speedwing, missing a hit would be annoying but being able to double gives it a higher chance to kill Ludveck.

So if Callil Meteoring Ludvick gets Haar to OHKO the boss can Elincia perform the kill with Callil's help?

[-Cynthia-]

Elincia does 8x4= 32 damage. Calill does 27-16= 11 damage with Meteor, so Elincia/Calill combo should fall 2 points short.