OMG it's a tier list

[Ether]

Strength is Elincia's second highest growth however,and with the BEXP from 2-3,we should be able to net her atleast one level,especially if she was suing mend actively in 2-P

[-Cynthia-]

BEXPing tier 3 units that don't rejoin until Part 4 seems like a poor choice in comparison to BEXPing tier 2s that show up in 3-2 (namely Haar and Nephenee).

[Ether]

It depends on how close she is,really.Would I rather use a chunk of that BEXP so that I don't need to worry about Haar missing or getting Critblicked by Ludveck? Remember,we have 8 turns during 2-P where Elincia has mediocre offense,and Mend is 12 Exp a pop.

Hell,she just needs to get up to 78 EXP,and a single Physic use will give her a 60% chance of auto-killing Ludveck,while she still has 4 chances at stun even if she doesn't proc Str.

[Interceptor]

Are you suggesting Jill(T) = Jill(N) (well, Jill(T) > Jill(N) but not by enough to beat any unit that Jill(N) isn't already beating)?

I am fine with Jill(N/T) at the bottom of High, for keeps or for starters. I don't care about Rafiel, he's a heron and can go die in a fire.

Regardless of what this site says about bio, I'm pretty sure player units all start at step 1 on their bio when they first appear and every turn thereafter they move one over. It remembers chapter to chapter. Meaning Elincia spends the first part of chapter 2-E at bad or worst bio. If anyone has a save, check just to make sure.

I've done this before, and it's true. You start at step 1, and it increments every turn that you are deployed, without fail. This makes it pretty easy to predict what a bio value will be in the first few crucial turns of a character's existence. It's what makes Meg a decent item-finder in 1-4, for example, and why Geoffrey has such a good chance of finding the Arms Scroll in 2-3.

By the way, I'd like to say that it's a pretty good investment to finish off a level for Elincia with BEXP. Most people don't know that her STR growth is utterly absurd (65%), and is only beaten by three beorcs (Aran, Rolf, Haar). It's not a 100% chance to proc STR, but it's a very good one. This is a good reason to spam Mend in 2-P, as mentioned.

[dondon151]

By the way, I'd like to say that it's a pretty good investment to finish off a level for Elincia with BEXP. Most people don't know that her STR growth is utterly absurd (65%), and is only beaten by three beorcs (Aran, Rolf, Haar). It's not a 100% chance to proc STR, but it's a very good one. This is a good reason to spam Mend in 2-P, as mentioned.

That's true if you specifically want str, but each BEXP'd level forces her to lose out approximately .85 total stat points, which means that, among other stats, you are greatly reducing the probability of her getting HP, mag, and/or def.

[grandjackal]

Wasn't Aran supposed to drop? Along with Geoff, Keiran and Eddie climbing to mid? I believe those were also business put on the backburner with the time taken off the arguments on this list.

[Interceptor]

That's true if you specifically want str, but each BEXP'd level forces her to lose out approximately .85 total stat points, which means that, among other stats, you are greatly reducing the probability of her getting HP, mag, and/or def.

Considering what Elincia's prospects for Part 4 are (not much, even when growths exist), it's probably a reasonable trade-off in her case. Even still, STR/SPD are the two stats that she really wants anyway, for boosting Amiti damage and increasing the viability of Vantage/Cancel hax. There's not much that she's doing in 4-5 in a fast clear, and she's a non-optimal Endgame candidate, so that mostly leaves whatever she's able to pull out of her pegasus in 4-2.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Interceptor

[Fenrir]

Wasn't Aran supposed to drop? Along with Geoff, Keiran and Eddie climbing to mid? I believe those were also business put on the backburner with the time taken off the arguments on this list.

Aran shuold drop to at least mid, the others should climb up to the same tier as well

Int u dun like the herons? the watchfire in 4-1 would get the job done...

[Interceptor]

Int u dun like the herons?

I like herons. I just don't like the prospect of tiering non-combatants in a list where a bunch of people do nothing but fight.

[Narga_Rocks]

Aran shuold drop to at least mid, the others should climb up to the same tier as well

Int u dun like the herons? the watchfire in 4-1 would get the job done...

I like herons. I just don't like the prospect of tiering non-combatants in a list where a bunch of people do nothing but fight.

And he hates tiering healers and thieves for the same reasons.

But I'm not likely to move Aran without moving Boyd down as well. From the Aran down crowd, what arguments can you make for why Boyd can stay in upper mid but Aran can't?

[RNG Princess]

He gets you a spirit dust with A Mist support, not much of anything really.

Also Rhys vs Brom, Rhys has automatic Physic staves and his healing is useful until endgame what does Brom have beside 2-1, 2-2 and 2-E?

Edited July 29, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Fenrir]

I like herons. I just don't like the prospect of tiering non-combatants in a list where a bunch of people do nothing but fight.

yes, this makes sense, i think herons should be out of the tier picture as well...unfortunatly majority rules =/

And he hates tiering healers and thieves for the same reasons.

But I'm not likely to move Aran without moving Boyd down as well. From the Aran down crowd, what arguments can you make for why Boyd can stay in upper mid but Aran can't?

Boyd is cool.

really though, with training, he is amazing, just give him kills her and there, 3-9 speedwing would be very nice on him as well.(or you could give him one in early P3 if u dont like titan)

Nothing really fixes aran, the 1-E speedwing, boyd can take this, but shouldn't. Also, boyd shines lategame, look at his caps, aran shines P3...i like boyd for these reasons.

[dondon151]

Boyd takes a great deal of resources to even garner respectable offense. His base str is also relatively low, to the point where he's missing OHKOs on generals in 3-3 (not that Boyd is a good choice for the Hammer anyway - Titania and Haar are better).

At least Boyd has potential given resources while Aran really doesn't. Outside of 3-P and 3-1, I could do just fine without the existence of either Boyd or Aran.

Edited July 30, 2010 by dondon151

[Anouleth]

yes, this makes sense, i think herons should be out of the tier picture as well...unfortunatly majority rules =/

Boyd is cool.

really though, with training, he is amazing, just give him kills her and there, 3-9 speedwing would be very nice on him as well.(or you could give him one in early P3 if u dont like titan)

Nothing really fixes aran, the 1-E speedwing, boyd can take this, but shouldn't. Also, boyd shines lategame, look at his caps, aran shines P3...i like boyd for these reasons.

For a start, the tier list assumes a competent player, so there is no possibility of not liking Titania or not using her or failing to give her the Speedwing based on some personal distaste towards redheads or whatever.

Secondly, Boyd has crappy speed even with the Wing. Assume he gains a level every chapter. He will then be at level 17 in chapter 3-11, with 22AS. Now, there's quite a case for giving him the Speedwing here - it bumps him into doubling Paladins/Generals/Sages. But this short-term gain is not that great - the competent player will cast his gaze to the stormy Routs of Part 4. Boyd would need to be 20/3 with the Speedwing to double in 4-1, for example, and even there he misses the Warriors and Swordmasters, which are fairly numerous. And his poor movement hampers him on Hawk and Silver Army.

[Fayt Zelpher]

For a start, the tier list assumes a competent player, so there is no possibility of not liking Titania or not using her or failing to give her the Speedwing based on some personal distaste towards redheads or whatever.

Secondly, Boyd has crappy speed even with the Wing. Assume he gains a level every chapter. He will then be at level 17 in chapter 3-11, with 22AS. Now, there's quite a case for giving him the Speedwing here - it bumps him into doubling Paladins/Generals/Sages. But this short-term gain is not that great - the competent player will cast his gaze to the stormy Routs of Part 4. Boyd would need to be 20/3 with the Speedwing to double in 4-1, for example, and even there he misses the Warriors and Swordmasters, which are fairly numerous. And his poor movement hampers him on Hawk and Silver Army.

I think you need to clarify the fact that you're not talking about a merely 'competent player'. You're assuming perfect play in every way, and I'm not so sure that this is a valid assumption to make. I really don't know if I agree that you should be assuming this level of expertise (otherwise, this list merely exists for people who have already mastered the game to the highest level possible and don't need this in the first place).

(Sorry if that was off topic.)

[grandjackal]

I have no issue with Boyd's ass dropping as well, agreeing with dondon's thoughts on the subject.

Frankly, I feel Aran should be lower mid while Boyd's in mid, reason being that Boyd's got similarities to Soren, exception being that Boyd's actually pretty cool in 3-P and 3-1 (3-P due to his starting position allowngh him to basically keep up with the paladins until the boss area and helping them out as he can, 3-1 due to being another dude with decently strong range chip in a rather cramped map.

I could say pretty safely that Aran's pretty lousy when he starts out and doesn't really become anything brilliant/gamechanging either. 1-4 he's got a chance to die from everything thanks to his shit for luck, 1-5 he's not really anything special, then 1-6 comes and dooms him with the new cast members showing up.

Bleh...Again probably painting with too broad a brush as usual...But there's an outline of thought at least.

[Anouleth]

I think you need to clarify the fact that you're not talking about a merely 'competent player'. You're assuming perfect play in every way, and I'm not so sure that this is a valid assumption to make. I really don't know if I agree that you should be assuming this level of expertise (otherwise, this list merely exists for people who have already mastered the game to the highest level possible and don't need this in the first place).

(Sorry if that was off topic.)

I doubt it's off topic. However, I think it's acceptable to assume the player acts in two ways:

-They field Titania who is kickass

-They figure out that Titania is a much better destination for the Wing than Boyd, just as we assume they don't give the Energy Drop to Aran or give the Master Crown to Soren

[Fayt Zelpher]

I doubt it's off topic. However, I think it's acceptable to assume the player acts in two ways:

-They field Titania who is kickass

-They figure out that Titania is a much better destination for the Wing than Boyd, just as we assume they don't give the Energy Drop to Aran or give the Master Crown to Soren

But is Titania better than Haar here? Clearly both Titania and Haar both are great units and both benefit from the wing, but what's usually considered the better choice.

(Clearly, this is another nail in the coffin of Boyd getting the wing, but I am curious for if I ever decide to try hard mode.)

[Anouleth]

But is Titania better than Haar here? Clearly both Titania and Haar both are great units and both benefit from the wing, but what's usually considered the better choice.

(Clearly, this is another nail in the coffin of Boyd getting the wing, but I am curious for if I ever decide to try hard mode.)

We can have our cake and eat it too. Haar takes the 2-3 Wing, Titania takes the 1-E Wing. Boyd has a better shot at the 3-9 Wing, but he still doesn't do anything interesting with it in Part 4 unless he's a high level. And even if there isn't any single individual that's obviously better than him, there are many possibilities. Tanith, Skrimir, virtually any unit that might have been speed screwed, even Gatrie depending on how early he stole a Crown.

[Junkhead]

yes, this makes sense, i think herons should be out of the tier picture as well...unfortunatly majority rules =/

Boyd is cool.

really though, with training, he is amazing, just give him kills her and there, 3-9 speedwing would be very nice on him as well.(or you could give him one in early P3 if u dont like titan)

Nothing really fixes aran, the 1-E speedwing, boyd can take this, but shouldn't. Also, boyd shines lategame, look at his caps, aran shines P3...i like boyd for these reasons.

He doesn't. And he never gets to double in Part 4, where the rest of the DB shines and has good potential by now.

[Fenrir]

He doesn't. And he never gets to double in Part 4, where the rest of the DB shines and has good potential by now.

no of course, aran sucks. Some people however are under the impression he "shines in P3" by shining instead of looking like a pile of shit, he now looks more like a pile of scrotums, at least some strange strange women might find this better.

Slowking, lets take a look at average stats before making up are own. 25.4 when he class changes, and if he lands on the good side of this that 28spd with a wing.

[RNG Princess]

If you used Aran fairly in Part 1 he'll be useful for Part 3 as a wall and he can still come handy supporting someone or blocking a ledge. Unlike Boyd after 3-2(I think) theres a limit to characters that can be fielded and his move hinders him on some maps (while Aran's doesn't hinder him in Part 3).

Edited July 30, 2010 by Queen_Elincia

[Junkhead]

I think me and King Soren mentioned this redundacy tons of times but, his "tanking" isn't really valuable for most of Part 3. I'll give you 3-6, where he might take the right side of the map to block the entrance from laguz, but after that, he really has nothing going for him. He gets doubled by many enemies in 3-12, and he's gettinng 2RKO by most enemies in 3-13 as well. This is just the same for the rest of the DB, I just feel even Edward can be slightly better during Part 1 before both start leeching BEXP only to be decent by Part 4, and I doubt that even being decent goes to Aran in Part 4.

I really think Aran's position should be switched with Tauroneo's.

Edited July 30, 2010 by The Leaving Song

[Fenrir]

If you used Aran fairly in Part 1 he'll be useful for Part 3 as a wall and he can still come handy supporting someone or blocking a ledge. Unlike Boyd after 3-2(I think) theres a limit to characters that can be fielded and his move hinders him on some maps (while Aran's doesn't hinder him in Part 3).

if you use boyd "fairly" in P3 he will pay off, this is somewhat of a blanket statement about aran, and Boyd loses everything after 3-2? units with greater move, Oscar, Titan and the mighty haar, 3 + lets say, Mia, Shinnon and Neph. This is not enough to fill out a team, so we can use Boyd.

also, Ed > Aran in P1, i know GJ agrees, as well as myself and soul. Ed also wins P4 and if your bringing Nolan and you will have Volug Ed won't be a hassle to use in P3.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Fenrir

[nflchamp]

For the record, I 4-turned 2-E.

I also question whether or not boss biorhythm is random. If it's not, the best window for victory in 2-E is turn 3, where Haar is in best Bio and Ludveck is in worst Bio (hahaha), or 4 where Haar is in good Bio and Ludveck is in bad Bio. This is, of course, going from my memory of playing 2-E.

In other news,

I think you need to clarify the fact that you're not talking about a merely 'competent player'. You're assuming perfect play in every way, and I'm not so sure that this is a valid assumption to make. I really don't know if I agree that you should be assuming this level of expertise (otherwise, this list merely exists for people who have already mastered the game to the highest level possible and don't need this in the first place).

This list doesn't care about Joe Schome. He sucks at this game and can't play efficiently in the first place. This list expresses which characters help beat the game the most efficiently. This list doesn't help people who don't know the strategies beat the game? Don't care, as that isn't the point of the list.