Fruitloop Multipuck Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I wouldn't necessarily say the gap between Forde and Kyle with Natasha fitting in between is wrong so much as it is unintuitive, and I don't recall a comparison proving it is the case so I'm not convinced. As stated, on Ephraim Route Gerik needs to move below Kyle and the availability difference would make me think Natasha > Gerik as well. For that matter I think Forde could give him a run for his money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 Here's something. I think Vanessa needs to go down. Why? Well, she's dependent on her supports, yes? Her supports are pretty slow. 15/2 and 10/2 starting at C4 is...is about 33 turns for Moulder, 35 for Lute. This is even more problematic when you consider that chapters are often pretty short due to lolSeth and everything, plus the fact that Vanessa needs to restrict her movement to build them isn't helping. When do people realistically see her supports activating? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Here's something. I think Vanessa needs to go down. Why? Well, she's dependent on her supports, yes? Her supports are pretty slow. 15/2 and 10/2 starting at C4 is...is about 33 turns for Moulder, 35 for Lute. This is even more problematic when you consider that chapters are often pretty short due to lolSeth and everything, plus the fact that Vanessa needs to restrict her movement to build them isn't helping. When do people realistically see her supports activating? It probably varies on the different routes, but in Eirika's, I get A Moulder B Lute around Chapter 14. However, I put them together practically every turn. My Vanessa gets slightly underleveled after that, but she catches up after slaughtering all the Wyverns in Chapter 15 with a Dragonspear. So 14 if you don't mind having her slightly underleveled, maybe around 16/17 is she isn't, though. Strangely enough, I don't think I've ever used her in Ephraim's mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Does anyone think Saleh could move up some on Eirika's? To quote myself at another site: He joins with pretty awesome stats about halfway through the game. To compare him to Lute when he joins: He has 7.6 HP, 2.2 MAG, 8.4 SKL, 1.6 SPD, 3.2 DEF, and 3.2 RES on her at level 13. She has 2.4 LUK. And that doesn't really mean anything, either. 11 LUK is plenty for avoiding crits, and he still has an avoid and hit lead on her. And she's High Tier. And if we look at Endgame with her at 20/5 and him at 20/10, well he still beats her in HP, SKL, SPD, and DEF. She wins in MAG, LUK, and RES. And he has staff utility earlier and it's always better than hers I'm not quite sure how accurate my levels are, though. If we compare him to Forde at that point, I'll say Forde's also about level 13 at that point. I'm not sure if a Kyle support would be expected, so I won't include that. Forde 13/0 Steel Sword/Steel Lance HP: 29.95 ATK: 18/20 HIT: ~105/~100 CRIT: 5-6 AVO: ~30/~26 CEV: 9.45 DEF: 9.4 RES: 3.75 AS: 10/7 Saleh Base Elfire/Lightning HP: 30 ATK: 26/22 HIT: 99/109 CRIT: 9/14 AVO: 34/38 CEV: 11 DEF: 8 RES: 13 AS: 12/14 So Saleh shows up and wins in every area except hit and defense, although his HP lead is only .05. But 6 ATK and targeting RES AND 2-7 AS leads mean that he's crushing Forde offensively. That 9 crit lead isn't hurting, either. And then defensively, it's 1.4 DEF vs. 8 AVO, 1.55 CEV, and 9 RES. I'd call that Saleh's win, too. C Kyle is only 5 hit and CEV, and 2 AVO and crit, so it's not really changing anything, anyways. And then there's C staves, which means everything but Latona, Physic, Fortify, and the status staves. And it's not like B for Physic is that far away, and then A for Fortify seems reasonable enough for Endgame. I'm not seeing the tier gap between them. Unless Forde's 3 1/2 chapters mean that much... Edit: He also wins hit when he's using Lightning, and Elfire compared to Steel Lance is ~=, so you could say he wins that, too. Edited October 15, 2009 by Slize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I'm a little curious as to why Ewan > Amelia. Sure, Ewan STARTS with more SPD than Amelia, but she's got better bases AND growths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 1-2 range that actually exists making levelling him possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Javelins don't count? Or is it the bad Accuracy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 It's the accuracy. And then Ewan is also doing more damage do to targeting RES and has a higher attack growth. And then he only needs to be 10/10/1 to get summons, while she needs to be 10/20/1 to compare to your team for endgame. Comments on Saleh up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 It's the accuracy. And then Ewan is also doing more damage do to targeting RES and has a higher attack growth. And then he only needs to be 10/10/1 to get summons, while she needs to be 10/20/1 to compare to your team for endgame. Comments on Saleh up? I could see Saleh going up, due to his weapon and staff ranks giving us some utility and damage (by targeting res), and decent chip damage when he stops doubling enemies. (if he's still at base speed) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) I already showed why he should go up. Also, I could maybe see Saleh>Forde --/10 Saleh Fimbulvetr/Excalibur HP: 34 ATK: 31.7/54.7 HIT: 127/137 CRIT: 10/20 AVO: 43/41 CEV: 14.6 DEF: 10.7 RES: 16.15 AS: 13.6/12.6 Forde 20/5 Silver Lance/Vidofnir Paladin HP: 41.3 ATK: 29.2/45.2 HIT: 124/134 CRIT: 9 AVO: 47 CEV: 13.3 DEF: 13.6 RES: 7.5 AS: 17.1 That's for Endgame. Forde wins HP, AVO, DEF, and AS, although Saleh can take out a lighter tome to win AS. Saleh wins attack (54 attack with Excalibur OHKOs all but 7 enemies. The elder baels, the malduin, the dracos, and Lyon himself), crit, hit, CEV, and RES. Now, Forde could have a Kyle support for crit, hit, and CEV as well as a little bit of attack and defense, though. So with a Kyle support Forde has 46 attack with Vidofnir. How many enemies does he OHKO? 17/50. So Saleh actually does pretty well here, although Forde's 7 HP and 4 DEF leads plus his 10 AVO leads mean that he's quite a bit more durable. Saleh only has 8.65 RES and 1.6 CEV to defend against that. I'd say that Saleh being >>> Forde when he joins and then only being slightly worse for ~1/2 the time he's around I'd say that Saleh > Forde. Edit: Actually, he's winning for more than half the time he's around. At promotion, Forde only wins HP and defense (and speed, but only by .1). Saleh wins everything else, so I'd say that Saleh's actually winning for 2/3-3/4 of the time. And then in chapter 15 he crushes Forde due to not being on a horse and having physic. I'm not seeing how Forde >> Saleh makes any sense. Actually, I think it might be possible to say Saleh>Artur&Lute. He's still doing well lategame and crushes them when he joins. Also, I'm thinking Artur>Lute. He gets a higher staff rank at promotion IIRC and he gets Slayer. Is there really a time when she's performing so much better than him that she's>him? Edited October 15, 2009 by Slize Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Draper Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Your levels are way, way off. Forde should be close to promoting by Chapter 13, and he should be at least 20/10 by endgame. Unless you're using like 18 characters as opposed to 8 (pretty much the magic number), then Forde should not be that low levelled at those points in the game. Edited October 15, 2009 by IOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 I think I was thinking Saleh joined in chapter 11 for some reason. Although I don't think Forde will be promoting before the very end of chapter 14 at the earliest. Still, giving Forde 4 levels gives him 3.4 HP (He now has a 3.35 lead there) 1.6 strength (Saleh's only winning attack by 5-6 with Elfire, wow) 2 SKL (Not changing much) 1.8 Speed (Saleh can still pull of a 5 AS win) cuts down Saleh's CEV lead to .15, and gets 1 DEF and RES (His defense lead is now 2.4 and he only loses RES by 8). I'm not sure how much that 1.6 damage is helping him (I'm not on my computer with enemy stats) but he's definitely not one-shotting as much as Saleh at endgame. I'd still say that Saleh>Forde is possible, and Saleh into High at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Multipuck Posted October 20, 2009 Share Posted October 20, 2009 Saleh joins at the beginning of Chapter 12 on Eirika Route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 >_< Wow. Well, then, he actually should only have gained 2 levels in that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Am I the only one who thinks Duessel might be better than Franz and possibly Seth based on stats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Duessel>Seth? no just no just...mother fucking no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Okay. Fine. Seth = Duessel. Or at worst, Duessel = Franz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Duessel joins halfway through the game, even on Ephraim's route. Franz joins in the second chapter. Duessel will not go above Franz. Edited November 7, 2009 by Ninji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Not calling Duessel better. Only just as god when you get her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_____ Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Then he isn't close to being equal to Franz. In fact, I would put a tier gap between them. Edited November 7, 2009 by Ninji Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolDeath Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 Knoll should be top tier. I mean come on, he can spawn little bitches INFINITELY. Seth can ride around on his gay little fucking horse, poking things with his little lance, but can he spawn anything? No. Can that one bitch dance up some extra men? Didn't think so. Gilliam could shove some people into his armor and be like a human Trojan Horse, but he doesn;t, because he is a bitch and does not get so much green he should open a salad bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Candlejack Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 YES. AND HE HAS DARK. FUCKING BEST AFFINITY EVER. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Hm... who could see Healers a little lower? If only because their leveling speeds seem slower in comparison to combat units in this game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fei Mao Posted November 7, 2009 Share Posted November 7, 2009 (edited) Hm... who could see Healers a little lower? If only because their leveling speeds seem slower in comparison to combat units in this game? I also agree with this statement, how far do you suggest they drop to? Edited November 7, 2009 by Generic Officer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted November 7, 2009 Author Share Posted November 7, 2009 Hm... who could see Healers a little lower? If only because their leveling speeds seem slower in comparison to combat units in this game? I also agree with this statement, how far do you suggest they drop to? Possibly a tier at the worst. Moulder is already at the bottom of High. Of course I'm not going to penalize Saleh, it's mostly for Moulder / Natasha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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