Look in Here!

[California Mountain Snake]

I think dividing it up into "Blacken and Co." and "Admins/Regular users of SF" is too simplistic and largely sidesteps the whole issue.

It's easy to dismiss the rabble-rousers as "a bunch of those generic ashtray trolls," because it makes them look like a fringe, outsider group. It's not accidental, it's completely volitional that this fake contest is being fabricated between only admins/regulars and the evil ashtrayers because it makes it easy to characterize as good guys versus bad guys, outside of the fact that I have about three posts at the ashtray and have logged about 5 minutes in chat, and most definitely have spent most of my time here since leaving FESS.

But NOoOoOoOoOo, I'm a Blacken clone. I'm a wretched ashtrayer. Just lump this post together with those other miscreants, because you might as well not treat us as regular members.

EDIT: As for me, the stupid members don't really bother me at this place, nor do I really think it has many problems that CAN'T BE FIXED EASILY. What bothers me is that there are backed up requests or suggestions in the "Important Forums" section which have not been dealt with or even received comment from the administration for why they haven't been dealt with, and the mod team has displayed never-ceasing spinelessness in dealing with spam and other normal forum garbage that every community website has to deal with. It's not that fucking hard to fix. You just need to, uh, not lose 3 fucking mods in a week, and YOU NEED TO FUCKING REPLACE THEM and keep forum members in the loop.

Edited July 5, 2009 by California Mountain Snake

[Masu]

NO Shuuda! Now they're going to toot their own horns and use raise ego! They're Sp. Def will rise to levels unheard of!

Its super effective!?!?!??!

[NoNameAtAll]

The FE4 THREAD

I blame Fia for that. :|

[Mufasa]

Wow. I got my very own group. That's how bad I am.

Awesome.

And once again, I'd rather be an immature idiot having fun, then a brainiac asshole bored out of my mind.

[Shuuda]

NO Shuuda! Now they're going to toot their own horns and use raise ego! They're Sp. Def will rise to levels unheard of!

Well from what I can see, Superbus seems to be the only one who can toot a horn. And he seems like an upright fellow.

[Cynthia]

In all honesty though:

"Hey, um that actually isn't correct, see it works like this see (link goes here)."

Works a lot better than:

"No you fucking idiot! You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about so shut up!"

And considering a majority of those complaining about other users having "low intelligence" then getting "butthurt" over being proven wrong choose the ladder to respond to a situation, it's easy to see why they are the patrons of their own problems.

[Raven]

Jyosua won't acknowledge or do anything about the problems in Serenes Forest. However, what exactly are these problems at Serenes Forest that Jyo is apparently hiding away from?

Call me whatever you like, but I fail to see any problems, the only problems being the individuals who say that there are problems, which I am personally unable to see in the first place. Enlighten me with these problems in which Jyo is apparently avoiding, please.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Raven

[Kratos]

Honestly, this thread epitomizes what's wrong --- 11 pages and what maybe 5 actually not-shit-posts?

Having fun is one thing, that's why there is Off-Topic/General/Random sections. Go be a fucktard there, but you need to know /when/ to just be 'lolrandom' and when to put your SRSFAIC on.

Honestly in the end, no one is really going about this the "right" way. The few people that started out serious deteriorated into shit-posting half way through, with the exception of Blacken and SuperBus. And that chap with the 'k' name whom stuck his nose in unaware of the situation lol.

And I'd even go as far as saying Blacken isn't handling things the 'best' but that's how Blacken works. He is an informant, if you're wrong he lets you know, and makes sure you're not wrong anymore. It's not the worst trait, he's just a bit forceful. An acquired taste, I would assume.

There's my two cents. I'm sure I'll see more shit-posts to come.

[Shuuda]

He is an informant, if you're wrong he lets you know, and makes sure you're not wrong anymore.

Correction; if he thinks you are wrong. Not saying he is wrong in this matter, but he is not the ultimate judge either.

Edited July 5, 2009 by Silver Lobo

[Raven]

Honestly, this thread epitomizes what's wrong --- 11 pages and what maybe 5 actually not-shit-posts?

You got to remember where this topic was before it was moved to General by Jyo. Even if it is a topic for serious discussion, when in FFtF, anything can get torn apart by anyone.

[Kratos]

Correction; if he thinks you are wrong. Not saying he is wrong in this matter, but he is not the ultimate judge either.

Honestly, he is very rarely wrong. Not always correct, mind you, but he is very factually based. Things like opinions, yea, he'll tear you a new one if he disagrees, but as least he has the decency to explain why with facts and solid thoughts. Unlike 90% of there rest of the assholes on the internet that'll just be like "yr rong fagot".

You got to remember where this topic was before it was moved to General by Jyo. Even if it is a topic for serious discussion, when in FFtF, anything can get torn apart by anyone.

Ever after the move, 90% of the posts were two liners with little to not thought. I mean, come on, if you really like this place so damn much, can't you mustard a little more oomph in your posts than a lurker?

[TheEnd]

Just because I'm not Bus doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about.

If you didn't mean Joshua's in the wrong for demoting Fox: alright.

If you did (which is what I interpreted from your post): a mod is supposed to take care of that kind of issue in private, instead of cleaning the dirty laundry in front of the entire community. His demotion was well justified, and you don't know what you're talking about.

[WyvernSageLord]

If you didn't mean Joshua's in the wrong for demoting Fox: alright.

If you did (which is what I interpreted from your post): a mod is supposed to take care of that kind of issue in private, instead of cleaning the dirty laundry in front of the entire community. His demotion was well justified, and you don't know what you're talking about.

I think what she was trying to say is that taking it in Private didn't work in the end...

[Defeatist Elitist]

It's easy to dismiss the rabble-rousers as "a bunch of those generic ashtray trolls," because it makes them look like a fringe, outsider group. It's not accidental, it's completely volitional that this fake contest is being fabricated between only admins/regulars and the evil ashtrayers because it makes it easy to characterize as good guys versus bad guys, outside of the fact that I have about three posts at the ashtray and have logged about 5 minutes in chat, and most definitely have spent most of my time here since leaving FESS.

But NOoOoOoOoOo, I'm a Blacken clone. I'm a wretched ashtrayer. Just lump this post together with those other miscreants, because you might as well not treat us as regular members.

EDIT: As for me, the stupid members don't really bother me at this place, nor do I really think it has many problems that CAN'T BE FIXED EASILY. What bothers me is that there are backed up requests or suggestions in the "Important Forums" section which have not been dealt with or even received comment from the administration for why they haven't been dealt with, and the mod team has displayed never-ceasing spinelessness in dealing with spam and other normal forum garbage that every community website has to deal with. It's not that fucking hard to fix. You just need to, uh, not lose 3 fucking mods in a week, and YOU NEED TO FUCKING REPLACE THEM and keep forum members in the loop.

<3

Honestly, this thread epitomizes what's wrong --- 11 pages and what maybe 5 actually not-shit-posts?

Having fun is one thing, that's why there is Off-Topic/General/Random sections. Go be a fucktard there, but you need to know /when/ to just be 'lolrandom' and when to put your SRSFAIC on.

Honestly in the end, no one is really going about this the "right" way. The few people that started out serious deteriorated into shit-posting half way through, with the exception of Blacken and SuperBus. And that chap with the 'k' name whom stuck his nose in unaware of the situation lol.

And I'd even go as far as saying Blacken isn't handling things the 'best' but that's how Blacken works. He is an informant, if you're wrong he lets you know, and makes sure you're not wrong anymore. It's not the worst trait, he's just a bit forceful. An acquired taste, I would assume.

There's my two cents. I'm sure I'll see more shit-posts to come.

<3

Honestly, he is very rarely wrong. Not always correct, mind you, but he is very factually based. Things like opinions, yea, he'll tear you a new one if he disagrees, but as least he has the decency to explain why with facts and solid thoughts. Unlike 90% of there rest of the assholes on the internet that'll just be like "yr rong fagot".

Ever after the move, 90% of the posts were two liners with little to not thought. I mean, come on, if you really like this place so damn much, can't you mustard a little more oomph in your posts than a lurker?

<3

Alright, so, until now I've pretty much abstained from commenting here, but now I feel the need to spread my whore bile on this topic.

I'll get this out right now. We're all going to have different ideas on how a forum is supposed to be run. Some peoples opinions on the matter will be better supported by facts. People like Superbus do have a fair history in this forum business, and thus their opinions should probably be given more weight, then, say, random spamposter #342.

But let's just think about this. We have a group of people (and they're not all Ashtray posters or "Mini-Blackens" as seems to have been implied), who think SF needs to be "fixed" (and they're not even all saying it should be fixed the same way, if you actually read the posts they're all saying different things), and then we have a group of people going "Lolno you guys can just go away if you don't like it", usually followed by posting spam. Then there are a couple more people. I mean really people, is this what you want to be doing?

I'm going to talk about Blacken here, if only because he's fairly vocal and iconic in this situation. Now, I don't always agree with him, in fact, there are a fair number of things we disagree on (although the things I disagree with him on are all rather subjective things), but even though I don't really agree with him fully here, I'm almost forced into agreement with him. Want to know why? Because in your knee jerk attempts to fight back against the press for change, everything has been polarized to fuck. As people said before, essentially, everyone with an opinion past neutral has been lumped into the "OH MY GOD THEY ARE ALL MINI BLACKENS" category. Even though many of them are saying fairly different things.

Now, let's look at SFs history. There have been several points (many of them points that I'm sure a lot of members would rather not remember) when certain sections of the forum where, for lack of a better term, pretty damn shitty. And then some people would come and try to improve them and their would be massive resistance. It wouldn't matter how you tried. I spent several months arguing on the FE boards in an entirely polite and respectful manner. I avoided offending anyone when I could, and I pretty much tried to be as compromising as possible. And all I was arguing for was that people not be attacked for using facts and evidence based arguments. I used to get lockjaw reading the forums there. And yes, eventually things changed, but I don't even know if it was because of the arguing, or because more and more members who agreed with me joined. Now a lot of people who previously were in direct opposition with me are (as far as I can see) enjoying themselves, probably more than before. Then there were other occurrences like the FESS merger and the improvement of general discussion here. The things I learned from all this are pretty much A) SF has a tendency to disagree with new concepts, and then eventually when they're actually implemented, suddenly not only be fine with them, but actually prefer them, and B) respond much better to someone being an asshole, bitching and screaming at them, breaking rules, and doing similar shit than they are to someone being very polite and gracious and patient.

[California Mountain Snake]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15355

Ibid.

[Jyosua]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=15355

Ibid.

Spam this time! And the warn train keeps on rolling!

[Nestling]

I'm going to miss you as a mod halfly because you gave the most epic warning on Serenes EVER. The other half because you were an epic moderator o-o.

[Jyosua]

See the real problem is that you people accuse us of not doing anything, when behind the scenes, we're discussing things thoroughly right now.

[Defeatist Elitist]

See the real problem is that you people accuse us of not doing anything, when behind the scenes, we're discussing things thoroughly right now.

Glad to hear it Jyo. Uh, don't get upset or anything, but, you see, shouldn't this have happened, I dunno, a little while ago? I mean, isn't that why we're having all this drama? Because it didn't happen?

Don't get me wrong, this is a step forward, but don't go waving it around like that.

[Cynthia]

I personally think if some of the people wanting to "fix" the problems were a little more polite to people and not downright rude or insulting, they would be listened to a lot more as their level of personal regard from the members and even the staff would be significantly higher.

There are nicer ways to say "I disagree," than to try and publicly humiliate someone or flat out insult them. Then people would probably take you a little more seriously. If you want to be taken seriously, that generally happens when people respect you and know you want to be taken seriously. If they don't respect you, they won't care if you want to or not.

A little kindness goes a long way, darlings.

[Celice]

Spam this time! And the warn train keeps on rolling!

I fell into, into a burning ring of fire

I fell down, down, down, down into the deepest mire

and it burns, burns, burns, burns

the ring of fire, the ring of fire, the ring of fire

[Defeatist Elitist]

I personally think if some of the people wanting to "fix" the problems were a little more polite to people and not downright rude or insulting, they would be listened to a lot more as their level of personal regard from the members and even the staff would be significantly higher.

There are nicer ways to say "I disagree," than to try and publicly humiliate someone or flat out insult them. Then people would probably take you a little more seriously. If you want to be taken seriously, that generally happens when people respect you and know you want to be taken seriously. If they don't respect you, they won't care if you want to or not.

A little kindness goes a long way, darlings.

As I've said, that really tends to not work on SF. Because trust me, I've tried.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I read the entire thread. Wow. Demodding Fox was an immature move. Alot of things going on can be boiled down to plain ol' immaturity and epeen type rubbish. Its all very sad really.

Spam this time! And the warn train keeps on rolling!

No offence at all Jyo but this is kinda what im getting at. One must be more impartial to what goes on in a forum while running it. One cannot simply hand out warns and bans simply because one doesnt like what one sees. That is the only issue i have with the way things are run here. Im used to gaming forums so the amount of teen spam and sillyness no longer bugs me. It happens.

This forum is becoming a decently sized community and one should be able to have the maturity to run it. As for Blacken, yeah its nice that SOMEONE cares that much since even I am rather ambivalent to what really goes on here. However i cant say i agree on how hes handling it.

[NoNameAtAll]

I read the entire thread. Wow. Demodding Fox was an immature move. Alot of things going on can be boiled down to plain ol' immaturity and epeen type rubbish. Its all very sad really.

No offence at all Jyo but this is kinda what im getting at. One must be more impartial to what goes on in a forum while running it. One cannot simply hand out warns and bans simply because one doesnt like what one sees. That is the only issue i have with the way things are run here. Im used to gaming forums so the amount of teen spam and sillyness no longer bugs me. It happens.

This forum is becoming a decently sized community and one should be able to have the maturity to run it. As for Blacken, yeah its nice that SOMEONE cares that much since even I am rather ambivalent to what really goes on here. However i cant say i agree on how hes handling it.

Actually, BK should've been banned months ago. >_>

[Loki Laufeyson]

That's really not my point, NoName but ok. :)