FE7 tier list, HHM Ranked

[Crysta]

I'm fine with him being below the other two spell casters, but he's definitely not in the place he deserves to be regardless.

[Rewjeo]

That kind of IS a hell of a lot more, especially since it's close to six levels. Look at his speed. It's more than double Canas's essential 7 base. Canas's response: 1 defense, and that's not even there if Erk gets to 14 first and procs speed.

First, how does speed get rid of a defense lead? Secondly, it's not close to six levels. It's almost exactly five. And how is a one level difference that huge?

[Dat Nick]

First, how does speed get rid of a defense lead?

What defense lead? If you'll read my posts, even under the assumption Erk and Canas are 20/10, which is at the tail end of the game and this is the BEST it's going to get for Canas, the lead is barely relevant. It's one goddamn defense and one goddamn HP, whoop de fucking do. It might as well not even be there, since this is the lead at it's PEAK and it only even exists at Endgame. Erk WINS defense at times due to his level lead. You're seriously going to argue 1 HP and defense lategame>Erk shitstomping him in AS all game?

Secondly, it's not close to six levels. It's almost exactly five.

It's almost exactly 6. 13.90=almost 6.

And how is a one level difference that huge?

Who cares? Erk has more than twice Canas's speed on arrival. Erk doesn't even have to level up once to tie Canas's base speed. If you have a proper justification for all this that isn't "defense lead lol" I'd love to hear it.

Erk has a shot at the LM robe and possibly the Energy Ring as well. Not that he needs either of them to pwnface Canas, but he's still one of your better candidates for at least the Robe (not so much the ring, I admit) and if he does then Erk wins defense all game meaning Canas better pick up his fortune cookie, because he's shit out of luck.

Edit: Er, I'm sure you're going to address the whole twice Canas's speed thing. That's my fault, I assumed Bal was using averages instead of his Erk's stats. Regardless, 13/14 speed (depends on if he's 13 or 14 and if he procced speed or not) vs 7 speed and virtually equal atk/def powers is a complete blowout in Anima's favor.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[Mekkah]

Haha. I suppose. Of the three Elite G0ds of Debaet that hang around FEFF/FEP/SF (Reikken, CATS, Solid), CATS is my favorite and I agree with him the most.

There's something brown on your nose, might wanna wipe it off before anyone notices.

I think Canas/Lucius/Erk have been proven close enough to be in the same tier somewhere. Erk is probably the best of them just on availability, but nobody really convincingly disproved CATS' numbers about Canas' performance.

[Dat Nick]

i was never arguing erk to be a tier above canas or any shit like that

I was arguing Erk>Canas. And I really don't think I need to say anything else on the subject. I don't care how much higher Erk is than Canas as long as he's higher.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[HJ.]

"Did Canas's AS problem magically disappear in the 7 or so years since FE7 came out?"

I see no mention of promotion at all here, so lol. Are you honestly so stupid you can't understand what you yourself have written? By the way, Canas with Luna can still double enemies like Paladins and Generals, even with Luna. Erk can't kill these enemies with Thunder, but Canas has a quite nice chance to do it with Luna. So Luna the good spell, yes. I don't know why you apparently think Luna sucks, but either way your argument is a disgrace to your avatar. Try using a picture of Paine instead. And then there's also Nosferatu. If Canas can use Nosferatu to heal himself, he's saving a turn Serra/Priscilla would have spent on healing, meaning they can now attack instead. Erk doesn't have anything like this.

Btw, are you from FESS? This extremely thickheaded elitism and impregnable, logic-repelling wall of arrogance leads me to believe so.

Edited February 10, 2010 by TheloveableHJKun

[Dat Nick]

I see no mention of promotion at all here, so lol.

Yet you don't see any mention of me saying his AS still sucks on promotion.

You can deduce one thing from this post, that it's referencing one thing: The fact that Canas has an AS problem, and nothing more. Guess what? Canas DOES have an AS problem at one point in the game, meaning that the post is accurate.

By the way, Canas with Luna can still double enemies like Paladins and Generals, even with Luna.

Why on earth are you negating resistance on enemies who have nearly none to begin with? Canas is better off using Flux on generals, you know that right?

Also, Paladins have 10 AS? At endgame?

but Canas has a quite nice chance to do it with Luna.

It doesn't even break 50% so it's still very unreliable. Luna is an annoying spell when you have several druids swarming you with it all at once that can blick you instantly. It's a crappy spell when you only have one guy to swarm with.

I don't know why you apparently think Luna sucks

Unreliability is bad. Luna isn't even close to reliable. Luna sucks. The end.

If Canas can use Nosferatu to heal himself, he's saving a turn Serra/Priscilla would have spent on healing, meaning they can now attack instead.

Nosferatu also drops his AS down to as low as 12 and it gimps his ability to ORKO, which is not good. This ignoring the "meh" hit and the fact that you only have one (lol the only other is in C32) 20 use one for the whole game without any others being buyable.

You can talk about these minor things all day but you have to explain how they're actually better than Erk wiping the floor with his ass earlygame. What you're doing instead is hyping.

Btw, are you from FESS? This extremely thickheaded elitism and impregnable, logic-repelling

Logic-repelling? You're not correct merely because you think you are. Stop being a hypocrite, you are no less elitist than me.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[HJ.]

When you mention no specific case, it's obviously assumed that you're referring to his AS in general. That's why there even is such a thing as specification.

Lol, Paladins have like 12 Res. Canas only needs to be 20/13 or 20/14 to double Paladins. Shouldn't be too hard with staves. Also, he doubles and he has about 35% Crit. It's not a guarantee, but Erk has no chance whatsoever, so uh...

Crappy? It provides a chance which Erk doesn't, so if Canas is crappy in this situation, Erk is terrible.

Canas doing big damage+Serra attacking (possibly killing) an enemy > Serra healing him and not attacking+Erk doing big damage.

Actually, I sort of am because you threw the first stone. I simply have no interest in being stoned, so I picked up a stone, myself.

[Dat Nick]

When you mention no specific case, it's obviously assumed that you're referring to his AS in general.

And that IS a very general problem for him since it sticks with him for the entire time until he promotes. You can get nitpicky with word choice all you please but even a mentally handicapped person can deduce the fact that Canas has an AS problem with his 7 base.

Lol, Paladins have like 12 Res.

Paladins =/= Generals. So this is only relevant against one enemy type.

Canas only needs to be 20/13 or 20/14 to double Paladins. Shouldn't be too hard with staves

When you said he was promoting at 16, and that he has a level disdvantage regardless...no, hardly. Absolutely not 20/13.

Also, he doubles and he has about 35% Crit. It's not a guarantee, but Erk has no chance whatsoever, so uh...

So uh stop fucking hyping a small chance. He likely won't even double, or at least I call him being at 20/13 or 16/17 into heavy question (Canas doesn't have 30 skill btw so that 35% crit twice assesment is false) A small chance to ORKO paladins does not in any way shape or form compensate to how badly Erk's been raping him this entire time.

Canas doing big damage+Serra attacking (possibly killing) an enemy > Serra healing him and not attacking+Erk doing big damage.

You didn't respond at all to my point as to how you essentially have 1 20 use Nosferatu in the entire game.

You also aren't explaining how this period where Canas is ZOMG SO MUCH BETTER THAN ERK (He's not btw) compensates for the period where not only did Erk exist and he didn't, but even when both exist, Erk completely cleans his clock.

Actually, I sort of am because you threw the first stone. I simply have no interest in being stoned, so I picked up a stone, myself.

Bullshit. You did with your shit about "HUUR DUUU PROMOTE CANAS DEN HE WONT SUCK HUUUUUR", so stop acting like the victim.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[HJ.]

It's not a general problem since the problem doesn't exist in the latter half of the time Canas is there. It's an initial problem, one that's easily overcome if you have even a hint of skill.

My bad, I mean 16/13 or 16/14.

He has a B with Pent since Pent wants an anima affinity more than whatever Erk has.

Lol, you still underestimate it. And like I said, if Canas is doing bad here, I'm curious to see what you'd call Erk's performance.

Existing and not being awesome is not > not existing. Not existing makes you average, being on your team and being average also makes you average. IIRC you get two Nosferatu tomes, but one is enough to make it a substantial advantage.

That was the stone I threw at you because in self-defense. Really, I thought this was established by now. Shame on you.

Edited February 10, 2010 by TheloveableHJKun

[Dat Nick]

It's not a general problem since the problem doesn't exist in the latter half of the time Canas is there. It's an initial problem, one that's easily overcome if you have even a hint of skill.

It's a very clear-cut problem that he actually has. "HEY YOU CAN OVERCOME IT IF YOU HAVE ANY SKILLZ AT ALL" doesn't change the reality of the situation that he's going to have it for a while and that this is a well known fact. Your misinterpretation of my post is nobody's fault but my own so stop justifying your attempts to make yourself look better than me. You're not. I'm an asshole. Difference between you and me is, I admit it.

He has a B with Pent since Pent wants an anima affinity more than whatever Erk has.

Ranked. So no supports period.

Erk has Thunder. That's nearly the same as Anima. The Erk support is faster, so if Pent is going to be supporting anybody, it's Erk since the 1 atk bonus is trivial.

Lol, you still underestimate it.

Yes, I underestimate it because it is a minor facet. Unless you'd care to explain why a small chance to ORKO paladins as opposed to leaving them with a little HP is so much better than how badly Erk has been kicking his ass later on?

Existing and not being awesome is not > not existing.

Um, you don't need to be awesome to justify the whole negative utility shit. Erk is MORE than good enough to warrant him being "positive utility".

IIRC you get two Nosferatu tomes, but one is enough to make it a substantial advantage.

Yeah. The second one you get is in C32 at which point nobody gives a fuck.

That was the stone I threw at you because in self-defense. Really, I thought this was established by now. Shame on you.

Except it wasn't because my analogy about Canas's AS was justified not to mention not even directed at you. So stop trying to convince the forum you're any less elitist than I am.

I'm just going to ignore you if you keep hand-waving Erk's massive earlygame advantage in favor of "HUUR BUH CANAS MIGHT ONE ROUND PALADINS LATEGAME"

[HJ.]

Would you prefer it if I simply said you're exuding exuberant amounts of homosexuality and idiocy instead of countering your arguments? Cutting out the middle man, as it were. Ignoring also means you admit you lose, so nice job, old bean.

Also, sure, I'm an ass. That doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being elitist. The general mentality this place has where they stonewall all other opinions but their own is incredibly elitist, and the "bawwwww I'm just gonna ignore you now" thing only serves to make it worse.

[grandjackal]

This is a ranked run, no? Nosferatu is an insanely expensive tome if I recall, as is all dark magic in general. I'd have an inkling that Canas using and eating up the funds of these valuable spells would hurt our funds rank, which if I recall correctly is nightmarish in this game. He's already negative utility on the basis that his spells are strangely enough too valuable to lose.

Not to mention that only 20 uses of shaky accuracy and speed killing weight does not make you invincible, especially since there's only 2, one coming at damn near the end of the game. If it doesn't kill his defense, it kills his offense because Canas's speed is already shaky. Weigh him down with Nosferatu, it starts to become a bigger problem than it would need to be. Since he's no longer doubling the few things he doubles, this in turn hurts the combat rank. Yet more a problem.

The fact that Erk doesn't have to deal with this shit on so grand a scale is enough to put him above Canas, and even more I could see a tier difference in a ranked run.

*Reads the post above me that didn't exist when I made my post* K, now I'm ready to call trolling. Seriously, what the hell, that was a blatant flame if I've ever seen one.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Galactica Leader Cyrus

[Dat Nick]

Also, sure, I'm an ass. That doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being elitist. The general mentality this place has where they stonewall all other opinions but their own is incredibly elitist, and the "bawwwww I'm just gonna ignore you now" thing only serves to make it worse.

I've given you plenty of chances to form an actual argument instead of just hyping Nosferatu and Luna until the horse's ass glows. I find your attempts to demonize me amusing regardless.

[HJ.]

Shaky accuracy? lol

Expensive? lol (Silver card, use it) Funds is not that bad if you use matthew, but if you don't then oh man do I feel bad for you

It drains HP and he doesn't actually get doubled with it, so it KILLS is durability? lol

Canas' latemid/lategame spd is not shaky

[Dat Nick]

Oh HJ-kun. you still have to prove how all of this shit outweighs Erk's earlygame, so don't bother correcting faulty logic (I adressed the accuracy as 'meh' rather than bad for a reason) and rather address the question I've asked you a thousand times.

[HJ.]

14, 15, 16, 17

Four chapters where Erk exists and Canas doesn't. Canas being much better in Cog of Destiny, better in Light and better in VoD is already > that.

[Dat Nick]

Bullshit. A small chance to ORKO paladins when Erk leaves them with about 4 HP and a 20 use Nosferatu =/= much better. Erk is much better, when he is actually better. And he's better for MUCH longer, too, not just when he exists and Canas doesn't. Did you totally forget Erk's massive speed win again?

Edited February 10, 2010 by Fred Fuchs

[Crimson_Edge]

In order to make Lyn cap her level, we'd have to favor her over quite a few of the units. Unfortunately for you, I don't think she's hitting Level 20 -that- quickly. Even if she did, there's this really simple strategy to prevent her from harming your CEXP rank: it's called benching her. Once the other Heaven Seal comes out, then you have the choice of using the Heaven Seal or just making her sit the bench for the rest of the day. It's like Dart I guess: he too can contribute to the EXP rank to a certain extent without promotion. The obvious cost is he'll have to sit bench after level 20.

Capping her level means two things: either she’s benched and doesn’t get to see much action, in which case her availability over Karla is significantly damaged (and her support partners, if they exist, go without her supports, which is even worse), or she’s used and she hurts EXP Rank. I fail to see how this is irrelevant. And she’s capping her level faster depending on what level she emerges from LHM at; if she emerges at a higher level, she caps her level earlier and sees fewer chapters of use—on the other hand, if she emerges at a relatively lower level, she caps her level slower and sees more chapters of use, but sucks for a longer period of time.

And “we’d have to favor her over quite a few of the units” is not true. Level 10 Lyn is at the same level as Lowen, Kent, Sain . . . just about anyone on your team.

Before that, you can't seriously tell me Lyn isn't doing anything before she even caps her level, so "whatever".

Indeed I can, and indeed I have done so, for the standard Lyn has the worst durability on your entire team. Behold:

10/0 Lyn: 22.3 HP/3.8 Def

9/0 Eliwood, C Hector: 24.4 HP/8.5 Def

10/0 Kent: 27.7 HP/7.3 Def, WT

10/0 Sain: 26.2 HP/7.8 Def

11/0 Serra: 22 HP/3.5 Def, no counters

9/0 Florina: 21.8 HP/5.2 Def

10/0 Erk: 22.9 HP/3.8 Def, 1-2 Range

9/0 Rebecca: 21.8 HP/4.2 Def, 2-Range

10/0 Hector, C Eliwood: 27.1 HP/13.5 Def

9/0 Wil: 25.3 HP/6.6 Def, 2-Range

13/0 Oswin: 31.6 HP/15.2 Def

9/0 Guy: 29 HP/7 Def

20/2 Marcus: 31 HP/10 Def, WT

9/0 Bartre: 35 HP/6.1 Def

11/0 Dorcas: 36.4 HP/4.5 Def

9/0 Lowen: 29.3 HP/9.8 Def, WT

3/0 Priscilla: 16 HP/3 Def

Yes, I literally just compared her to every single unit you have when she’s first available. She loses to each and every unit on the list minus Priscilla; Eliwood, Hector, Oswin, Marcus, Lowen, Dorcas, Bartre, Guy, Wil, Kent, and Sain flat out crush her in durability (most of them having double or more her Def); Rebecca, Erk, and Florina edge her out by smaller leads (and Rebecca and Erk attack from range), and Serra loses by less than a point in both stats but doesn’t ever take a counter on Player Phase, so even Serra is winning (note also that if you pump up her level she’s actually going to have more durability than Lyn, and I’ve seen it argued that Serra can emerge from LHM at level 11 or 12, so that’s certainly possible). Having the worst durability on your entire team certainly affects a unit’s performance; I can’t understand how this would not be the case. Lyn is the worst in a parameter that is the most important; Karla never has this issue. When Karla appears, her durability is not the worst on your team (in fact, guess what, Lyn’s will be worse most of the time).

Lyn’s durability is far too atrocious for Lyn to ever help out any of your ranks. If Lyn is fielded in lieu of just about any other unit, your team’s overall durability takes a substantial hit: since Lyn cannot be played in front of more than one or two enemies on a given turn without fear of dying or going to the brink of death (at which point it’s “get healed or not attack anything"), now you have one less unit that you can use fully, and your mobility (in addition to the mobility of her support partners, if she has any) is hindered. She wastes a unit slot in its entirety.

When was killing Cavaliers earlygame suddenly "negligible"? May I remind you, oh great one, that it isn't very easy to double the Cavaliers for quite a while, but oh wait... SHE CAN DO IT!?! Sure there's the obvious flaw that she's 2RKOed, but she can elminate a Cavalier within the process. The Mani Katti is what contributes to this. What does Bartre have to respond with this? Just... hitting him?

“Oh great one” --> Your pretentiousness is not appreciated; if you’re incapable of healthy discussion, please at least politely refrain from posting.

Indeed Lyn can double Cavaliers and indeed she can kill them with Mani Katti; however, if you’ll notice, said Cavaliers will 2HKO her, so she cannot afford to take a attack from two of them or one Cavalier and another enemy on a given turn. If she attacks a Cavalier and “elminates” it on Player Phase, she must avoid all enemy attacks on Enemy Phase. The same is not true for Bartre; Bartre can attack the Cavalier once on Player Phase, let it attack him again on Enemy Phase and kill it, and also take attacks from other enemy units and successfully counter them, thanks to his massive durability advantage over Lyn. I’m seeing Bartre as clearly the winner. And this is only when Mani Katti is used; without it, Lyn’s situation becomes worse, for she fails to kill the Cavalier with an Iron Sword (actually doing less damage to it than Bartre does, even after a double). I might remind you that Mani Katti is not infinite.

Also, a valiant effort, but you failed to read my post: I was discussing actual Combat Rank, which is easy to S-Rank in FE7 (you can 2-round the entire game and still A-Rank it), so Lyn one-rounding Cavaliers has no bearing on your rank in Combat. If you would like to suggest that it helps Tactics that she manages to kill them faster, I want to remind you that she also hinders Tactics with her frailty, so there goes the argument that she’s somehow beneficial to any rank.

Meanwhile, Karla helps EXP. Karla > Lyn.

Wow, did we suddenly toss LHM out the window? Guess you're just soloing this game with Lowen and Hector, right? Oh, Ninian too. lewl. This isn't you being generous, this is you sandbagging a unit to high heaven. Most people that play this game (by most, I do not mean everyone) will likely take a spin with LHM since it helps improve characters such as Sain and Kent. Otherwise...

Sain - 22 HP | 9 Str | 5 Skl | 7 Spd | 5 Luck | 7 Def | 0 Res

Bartre - 35.8 HP | 13 Str | 7.8 Skl | 6.2 Spd | 6.4 Luck | 6.4 Def | 2 Res

Nice job ignoring my actual comparison of Bartre and Lyn and singling out a single portion of my post to attack. My actual comparison had Lyn with a level lead from LHM. Also, did you actually attempt to counter my passage about LHM at all? I will repost it (see below) for your convenience.

And sure, Bartre is better than Sain if you don’t play LHM. What exactly is your point? That Sain sucks without LHM or that Bartre is better than most people think? Because other than this, you have no logically relevant point to the debate at hand. Assuming a position of arrogance backed by pointless tradition is not going to convince anyone of anything; actually countering my points, however, might do so.

Oh yeah, and your logic of "Florina sucks" went out the window years ago. Welcome to 2010: Florina is actually a good unit, but obviously has some flaws against her.

A totally unsupported claim. Florina’s durability is bad, just like Lyn’s, except that her mobility is hindered even further by Bows and the inability to use any form of defensive terrain (note that Red Fox of Fire used the availability of forests as an argument in favor of Lyn’s survival). Her offense is also nothing impressive, though in the grand scheme of things, offense doesn’t matter so much. Of course, as you’ve given me nothing to contest on an evidential basis, I will desist there and await further contestation.

I'm not even going to bother with the rest of it since it's "sandbag to high heaven and back". We never said that Lyn was the greatest unit beforehand, but yes your tier list is ridiculous(ly flawed) whether it's ranks or not.

Telling me my tier list is flawed without providing actual logical evidence to debunk my claims is rather arrogant of you, but I suppose at this point I shouldn’t expect anything else.

Speaking of the EXP rank, why is our lord and saviour Hector so high then? Have you forgotten he sits unpromoted longer than Lyn?

Because Hector does not consume a unit slot; even when he caps level, he continues to be deployed and offer other units support bonuses. Lyn just gets benched. Additionally, 20/0 Hector is a good combat unit; 20/0 Lyn is not. And finally, you folks are the ones toting EXP Rank; I’m merely pointing out that hurting EXP Rank is a detriment to the use of a unit (one that I will gladly in comparing Hector vs. Kent, for example, and find Hector to still be better).

Anything uncountered I will assume to be conceded.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Crimson_Edge

[Dat Nick]

Because Hector does not consume a unit slot

miccy sue does not consume a unit slot

miccy sue for epic tier above transfer ike

[grandjackal]

Shaky accuracy? lol

Certainly shakier than most others.

Expensive? lol (Silver card, use it) Funds is not that bad if you use matthew, but if you don't then oh man do I feel bad for you

I could also sell it for killer weapons gotten in Dragon's Gate. Lessee, I sell it and I could get 3 killer axes with it thanks to silver card. While the silver card helps, not using dark magic nearly makes it a joke. making things harder on me is not helping, obviously, so...

That, and 3 people using killer axes>1 using Nosferatu. 3 people can more efficiently get the job done than 1 person, which helps my tactics and possibly even combat because now 3 people are fighting at a better rate instead of 1 becoming worse.

It drains HP and he doesn't actually get doubled with it, so it KILLS is durability? lol

At 20/1 it drops him to 9 AS. At level 10 (about the time you get the first), it drops him to 2 AS. So yeah, fuck off with that thinking. Even if it hits, he's still gonna get bonked with a second attack. Even worse, what if it misses?

So yes, it kills his durability.

Canas' latemid/lategame spd is not shaky

20/10, 3 more speed than Marcus at 15 while having a far easier time getting weighed down by the heavy-ass dark tomes like Nosferatu and Luna is shaky speed I feel.

[Crimson_Edge]

a careless omission from the previous post on my part: here is the reposting of the argument I made regarding LHM, for your convenience, in its entirety:

Please do note that I was about as generous to Lyn as is possible in this comparison; I gave her a one-level lead that she might not even have. In fact, assuming LHM isn’t played or Lyn is used sparingly in that mode, Bartre himself may have the level lead. Remember that LHM experience is a resource just like any other; for any point of experience that Lyn gains, another unit loses out on a point (or a fraction of a point, depending on specific level) of experience as well. Erk, Dorcas, Sain, and Kent must all lose experience in order for Lyn to gain it. And because EXP Rank in LHM is independent of EXP Rank in HHM, there’s no “EXP distribution” argument to be made against that claim, as can be made against the claim that Bartre also consumes experience before Lyn arrives. In fact, there is a counterreason against giving Lyn EXP in LHM because she caps her level in the main campaign, so this makes her chances of gaining EXP before Bartre arrives even worse. Note that you toted Matthew’s lower experience consumption as an advantage in his favor; here, I’m toting Bartre’s. The scenario presented above is the best-case scenario for Lyn, and she still loses; let’s see how big the gap is in the best-case scenario for Bartre:

[HJ.]

Bullshit. A small chance to ORKO paladins when Erk leaves them with about 4 HP and a 20 use Nosferatu =/= much better. Erk is much better, when he is actually better. And he's better for MUCH longer, too, not just when he exists and Canas doesn't. Did you totally forget Erk's massive speed win again?

CoD is almost entirely magical units who Erk can't one-round. Canas with Luna can, though. And before you overhype AS problems so much the horse's ass glows, they generally use Elfire/Purge/C level light magic which I forgot the name of/Nosferatu/Luna, so Canas can double them all since he has more Spd and they lose AS too. Canas is vastly superior on CoD. There are also magical units in VoD, Light and even Sands of Time where this applies.

At 20/1 it drops him to 9 AS. At level 10 (about the time you get the first), it drops him to 2 AS. So yeah, fuck off with that thinking. Even if it hits, he's still gonna get bonked with a second attack. Even worse, what if it misses?

So yes, it kills his durability.

It's not going to miss, enemies have 0 Luck and are really slow in this game. Also, the vast majority of enemies don't double 9 AS, and certainly not at that point in the game. He can also attack from range and not take a counter, and then you just use the trade trick to switch back to Flux before the enemy phase. The only way Nosferatu kills durability is if you fail horribly at FE.

Edited February 10, 2010 by TheloveableHJKun

[Dat Nick]

CoD is almost entirely magical units who Erk can't one-round. Canas with Luna can, though. And before you overhype AS problems so much the horse's ass glows, they generally use Elfire/Purge/Nosferatu/Luna, so Canas can double them all since he has more Spd and they lose AS too. Canas is vastly superior on CoD.

Okay. So that is one chapter. I wouldn't overhype AS problems because I've told you for a million times they only happen when Canas is unpromoted.

And Erk is vastly superior in every other chapter before Canas promotes. Then he's slightly superior, and then Canas wins notably in only one lategame chapter and slightly for the rest of late-endgame.

It doesn't justify the gap between them earlygame. At all.

[HJ.]

Erk is not slightly superior after Canas promotes, because they both double and kill pretty much anything. In the odd event Canas fails to kill something, Erk doesn't kill it either.

Also, magic users aren't exactly sparse. It's more enough to matter. Paladins aren't the only type where Canas is better, you know. Generals also have enough Res for Erk not to kill them, and there are yet more types of enemies that I didn't bring up. Also, vastly superior? Erk is not an invincible monster or even a god tier unit in terms of performance. He's just better than Canas. Nothing less, certainly, but nothing more either.

Also, I was under the assumption you were attacking even lategame Canas for losing AS from Luna. If you weren't, alright.