CH 1 - P in as few turns as possible

[DragonKnight900]

Is it physically possible to beat Chapter 1 - P in 3 turns?

This would mean Leondardo wouldn't join the team at all correct?

I just watched the Vykan12 speedrunand he didn't have Edward use his entire movement every time and didn't activate crits against the boss during the first strike . . . though I don't know if it would be enough to do it . . .

Not asking if its probable . . . which it isn't . . . just asking if its possible. Might play around later tonight but didn't know if anyone has done this already.

[Nitrodon]

It should be possible to 3-turn in easy mode, since the boss has less strength and therefore loses AS. In normal mode, I'm fairly sure it's impossible. Edward will be at most level 2, so he'll get a 21-damage critical at most (out of 27 HP) and can't double.

[Candlejack]

lol a Myrm that can't double is a failmyrm.

[Narga_Rocks]

lol a Myrm that can't double is a failmyrm.

Actually, I don't mind if a myrm can't double a few bosses. Eddie sucks (at least on HM) because at reasonable levels he doubles less than half the enemeies on most maps in part 1. I mean, his durability is obviously crap and that's annoying, but that isn't the reason he is a failmyrm. If he doubled 90% of every map without needing to be overleveled, I'd think he's more reasonable. Unfortunately for him, he'd suck even then as of 1-6 because a more developed swordmaster appears. Oh well.

[Candlejack]

But Myrms are supposed to be good dodgers, right? Edward doesn't dodge, he blocks axes. With his face. And without wearing any pants.

And he still can't double everything even at a REASONABLE level. Every other Myrm ever can probably double more enemies on the DB chapters if they replaced Edward.

[Narga_Rocks]

But Myrms are supposed to be good dodgers, right? Edward doesn't dodge, he blocks axes. With his face. And without wearing any pants.

I'm not sure how often Mia/Zihark dodged in PoR at the start. I suppose more often then good ole' Eddie, though. So you are probably right on that. He doesn't even have the sword master crutch to fall back on: tearing apart axe users that couldn't hit him if they prayed. For one thing, higher hit. For another thing, no WTA.

And he still can't double everything even at a REASONABLE level. Every other Myrm ever can probably double more enemies on the DB chapters if they replaced Edward.

I know. I said at reasonable levels he doubles less than half the enemies each map. That's why. As for myrms like Fir and Rutger and co, since I'm sure you don't mean Mia/Zihark with their RD stats, they would have issues, too. Fir starts at 10 spd with a 55% growth. Rutger starts with 13 spd and a 50% growth. Even with HM bonuses Fir only starts with 13.2 spd, Rutger with 15 spd. Okay, Rutger would probably be better than Edward. Well, low str growth (for RD) would catch up to him along the way, but at least he'd double for longer and starts with more than 7 str. Ira/Aira grinds him into dust (as far as bases and doubling are concerned, anyway) assuming you let her str determine spd loss from weapons. Ditto Holyn, though he starts at level 12 so it isn't quite fair. Lakche might have problems, actually, with her 13 or 14 spd base and under 50% growth depending on her father. Needing 4 AS kind of cancels with sword's 3 wt in that game no longer mattering in RD. Of course, with Lex as her father she'd have a 50% str growth and 60% def growth and a 125% hp growth and 30hp/7def bases all at level 1 (13 spd base with Lex). And Ambush, Elite, Awareness, Shooting Star Hit.

Okay, so there are a lot of Myrms that can stomp on Edward even if you throw them into a game with high growths without adjusting their own growths. But there are some he actually does better than.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Narga_Rocks

[CT075]

But Myrms are supposed to be good dodgers, right? Edward doesn't dodge, he blocks axes. With his face. And without wearing any pants.

And he still can't double everything even at a REASONABLE level. Every other Myrm ever can probably double more enemies on the DB chapters if they replaced Edward.

I'd drop Eddie for a generic enemy Myrm or SM in a heartbeat.

[Bryan]

If you clear it in >3 Turns, Leo will not join the team. I hacked the chapter done in one turn, and he didn't join. One funny thing, he isn't in the next cut sceen.

[Rewjeo]

Wait, so what happens to his lines?

[Anouleth]

But Myrms are supposed to be good dodgers, right? Edward doesn't dodge, he blocks axes. With his face. And without wearing any pants.

And he still can't double everything even at a REASONABLE level. Every other Myrm ever can probably double more enemies on the DB chapters if they replaced Edward.

I'd drop Eddie for a generic enemy Myrm or SM in a heartbeat.

Generic enemy Myrms lose to Edward in every single area except defense (which they win by like, 1 point at most), which is cancelled out by Edward's Light affinity. SMs do the same, and 3rd tier SMs are getting curbstomped by him.

As for PoR Mia and Zihark, they aren't very dodgy earlygame either. Base Mia has 32avo (same as Edward), base Zihark has 36 (more than Edward, but Edward is 6 levels lower and beats Zihark in every growth except lolmagic). When so many enemies are using Lances, that's very unreliable. In lategame, they dodge quite well, but this is more to do with lategame enemies having fail hit.

[Candlejack]

I'd take the 3-13 Archer over Leonardo and Largo over Edward. Well, you could replace Edward's spot with Zihark and Zihark's spot with Largo, who is working with Tauroneo and Jill as a mercenary.

[Vykan12]

It might be possible, but the RNG abuse required would be insane. I wouldn't attempt it without being able to manipulate the RNG in a less crude way than simply re-loading battle saves over and over.

[charmander6000]

You would need Edward to go into wrath mode and crit everything and even then I'm not 100% that would work.

[Original Alear]

I know. I said at reasonable levels he doubles less than half the enemies each map. That's why. As for myrms like Fir and Rutger and co, since I'm sure you don't mean Mia/Zihark with their RD stats, they would have issues, too.

I assume you mean their PoR stats?

Anyway, I think it's true that Edward is challenged as much by FE10's rather powerful enemies early game than by his terrible bases. It was a little tough for me to look at FE6 HM's enemy stats (i don't have the game set up on my compy right now, and the pictures of enemy stats is pretty incomplete) but the spd stats almost always stay below 10 (besides a merc) and often are below 6 up to chapter 4 (when rutger, our first myrmid, steps in). Meanwhile, enemy speeds in FE10 are almost never under 9 after the first chapter and are regularly above 10 through chs 1-P to 1-3.

Regardless of whether most FE myrmids are better than him in terms of 1-to-1 stat comparisons, their performance is almost universally better when you consider the strength of the enemies they are fighting. Though I don't use Mia enough in FE9 to know if this is the case with her - I feel like there were a lot of high def armors on the stage she joins that made her fairly pointless that chapter.

Edited December 4, 2009 by SeverIan

[Narga_Rocks]

I know. I said at reasonable levels he doubles less than half the enemies each map. That's why. As for myrms like Fir and Rutger and co, since I'm sure you don't mean Mia/Zihark with their RD stats, they would have issues, too.

I assume you mean their PoR stats?

Um, no, not me. Someone was talking about how good the other myrms/swordmasters would be in RD compared to Edward. Since sticking RD Mia or Zihark in chapter 1-P with their base stats would be amusing, I'm assuming he doesn't mean Mia/Zihark's RD stats. Implying that he likely means the ones from the other games.

RD Mia and Zihark both have 13 def at base. They take no damage from any bandits in 1-P and take just 6 from the boss. Zihark is 5HKOd and Mia is 6HKOd. And obviously there is nothing in part 1 that Mia doesn't double.

A more interesting comparison involves PoR Mia and Zihark.

Mia has 21 hp and 7 def at base.

Zihark has 25 hp and 7 def at base.

Edward has 19 hp and 5 def at base.

Since he shows up in the first chapter, probably more fair to compare him to Ike:

Ike has 19 hp and 5 def at base.

Anyway, Mia would likely have the same doubling problems Ed has in RD. She starts 1 spd higher, but has the same growth. Also, Ed has a significantly better def growth than Mia and a bit better than Zihark. And his hp growth blows theirs away. 85% vs. 50% and 55%. 60% str growth vs. their 40% and 45%. 7 str base vs. 7 and 10.

If Ed were to show up in chapter 7 of PoR? Well, let's just say aside from Mag and Res he has better growths than PoR Ike and better/same bases, too (except mag). Ike probably would have some kind of leads by this point after 7 chapters of leveling, but Ed would be only 2 hp, 1 spd, 2 def, 2 res behind Mia and he has better growths (except mag and res).

Still, the problem with Ed is that he isn't built for his game:

Anyway, I think it's true that Edward is challenged as much by FE10's rather powerful enemies early game than by his terrible bases. It was a little tough for me to look at FE6 HM's enemy stats (i don't have the game set up on my compy right now, and the pictures of enemy stats is pretty incomplete) but the spd stats almost always stay below 10 (besides a merc) and often are below 6 up to chapter 4 (when rutger, our first myrmid, steps in). Meanwhile, enemy speeds in FE10 are almost never under 9 after the first chapter and are regularly above 10 through chs 1-P to 1-3.

Regardless of whether most FE myrmids are better than him in terms of 1-to-1 stat comparisons, their performance is almost universally better when you consider the strength of the enemies they are fighting. Though I don't use Mia enough in FE9 to know if this is the case with her - I feel like there were a lot of high def armors on the stage she joins that made her fairly pointless that chapter.

Mia has only 1 more spd in PoR and the same spd growth and has little issues doubling everything under the sun. Well, needs bexp for Ravens, but aside from that. Also she first appears not too far behind other units stat-wise and by chapter 8 in PoR HM you have far more bexp than you get along the way in RD (based off how much it costs per point of real exp).

[Nestling]

Original topic: Can we not get leo in the prolouge?

Topic right now: omg edi z ghey

omg no he isnzt staetz.

What.

So anyways, why would you not want Leo, I mean, I know he's bad, but he has a dracoshield, which is somewhat useful.

[Narga_Rocks]

Original topic: Can we not get leo in the prolouge?

Topic right now: omg edi z ghey

omg no he isnzt staetz.

What.

So anyways, why would you not want Leo, I mean, I know he's bad, but he has a dracoshield, which is somewhat useful.

I think it's just to see if we can. It's like KOing Hetzel in 4-4.

Why?

Why not?

[Original Alear]

Um, no, not me. Someone was talking about how good the other myrms/swordmasters would be in RD compared to Edward. Since sticking RD Mia or Zihark in chapter 1-P with their base stats would be amusing, I'm assuming he doesn't mean Mia/Zihark's RD stats. Implying that he likely means the ones from the other games.

Ah, I got stupid and read "they would have issues too" as pertaining to RD Mia and Zihark, which I found absolutely hilarious. But that would only make any sense if you had comma'd after that and put in another clause about fir and rutgar.

EDIT-

Mia has only 1 more spd in PoR and the same spd growth and has little issues doubling everything under the sun. Well, needs bexp for Ravens, but aside from that. Also she first appears not too far behind other units stat-wise and by chapter 8 in PoR HM you have far more bexp than you get along the way in RD (based off how much it costs per point of real exp).

Also you can level a character who hasn't filled any caps w/ bexp w/out having a good chance of damaging their growth.

Edited December 5, 2009 by SeverIan

[Vykan12]

I looked into this more and Nitrodon's right. Unless Edward can level up twice before attacking the boss, a 3 turn is impossible. Eddie's getting around 25 exp / kill, but there's only 7 non-boss brigands, and one of them attacks after Pugo.

[Kinata]

I don't think it's possible even on easy mode. I'm pretty sure Pugo doesn't move on easy mode, so Edward would have to move all the way to him in 3 turns, and he's 21 squares away. On the first turn, Micaiah would have to kill the bandit in the way while Edward moves 6 squares forward. On turn 2, Micaiah could shove him forward, and Edward would move another 6 squares. On turn 3, Micaiah is too far away to shove Edward, and Edward is still 8 squares away from the boss. I guess it's impossible to win without getting Leonardo.