FE7 HHM Ranked Tier List

[Florete]

The 30000G for Battle Preparations is given to you right before that chapter. You have no other opportunities to spend that money specifically. Sure, you can buy stuff along the way with other money given to you earlier in the game. But very little of your assets is actually given to you in straight cash anyways; that 30K for 31x is greater than the amount of hard cash (i.e. not money from selling gems and such) that you get in the entire rest of the game before then, iirc.

Victory or Death has a Secret Shop with:

Earth Seal

Fell Contract

Ocean Seal

Physic

Unlock

Barrier

[CATS]

Ah, indeed. I remembered that shop as being in CoD for some reason. Nevermind then. You can spend all of that 30K on a Fell Contract and a couple staves from that shop, so that particular point goes away.

[Anouleth]

Why do you even need to go to the Secret Shop? You have 5 turns in 31x, buy 20 Lancereavers or whatever. It's not like you need to take weapons into that chapter or anything.

[Colonel M]

I get CATS analogy I believe. Heh, nitpicking.

Spare me your meaningless rationalizations, tyrant. This insult will not be soon forgotten, not so long as this lonely crusader still draws breath. From hell's heart, I stab at thee...

This tyrant says speak no more. I will shove your peaks!

Edited February 27, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Reikken]

-Top-

Matthew

Raven

Serra

Priscilla

Ninian/Nils

-High-

Marcus

Oswin

Hector

Guy

Sain

Kent

Lowen

Erk

Eliwood

Florina

-Upper Mid-

Pent

Lucius

Harken

Dorcas

Geitz

Legault

Fiora

Canas

-Lower Mid-

Hawkeye

Heath

Athos

Lyn

Isadora

Jaffar

Bartre

12 Fort 8,14

-Low-

Karel

Vaida

Dart

Merlinus

Rebecca

Rath

Louise

Wil

Nino

Farina

-Bottom-

Karla

Wallace

Renault

-Beyond Garbage-

16 Forest 6,8

16 Forest 7,8

imo

Edited February 27, 2010 by Reikken

[Colonel M]

Reikken you forgot my Peaks I am disappoint.

But alright, let's not drive into the tiles and try to discuss srs Merlinus business.

[Don Draper]

You know, I think we might be overrating experience rank a bit. Lets take a sample team based on Balcerzak's S Rank playthrough. We'll choose the following team:

Hector 1900

Eliwood 1763

Kent 679

Sain 948

Fiora 1120

Florina 1123

Erk 931

Raven 1073

Lyn 503

Serra 1131

Priscilla 913

Ninian 387

Legault 540

Matthew 992

So 9 combat units, 3 support units, and 2 thieves. There's a little bit of rotating, but not too much. Especially because Lyn is only used once in awhile.

Now next to each character I put how much experience they've gained up until Chapter 23x. This number adds to 12890. Add in occasional prepromote usage from Marcus/Hawkeye (429/280) and we get 13599. Now lets take all the experience from characters that aren't included above but have been used up to Chapter 14 (Dorcas, etc) and this adds to 2084. So in total we have 15683.

Now the exp requirement up to this chapter is 16150. So we are a mere 287 exp short. Each of our main 8 combat units (I'm excluding Lyn) only have to gain an extra 36 exp each to meet this. Given that we don't have to rotate much at all, this is ridiculously easy to meet. Even if we cut out, say...Kent. Then we're 966 exp short, and each character only has to gain about an extra level. Again, with no rotating, this shouldn't be hard.

So maybe rotating isn't all that necessary after all.

Edited February 27, 2010 by IOS

[Florete]

IOS, it's been mentioned before that the early chapters are not that hard individually for Experience, it's the later maps that force you to get boatloads of experience. Rotating is done to make up for as much as possible.

[Colonel M]

IIRC its chapters like Cog of Destiny that really spike the EXP rank requirements. Yeah, the earlygame chapters really bluff you in this game unfortunately.

[Don Draper]

Just hitting up 32x and spamming awesome staves is enough for me to S rank Experience in my experiences. I typically just play with Tactics in mind to shave turns for 32x and use staves a lot during the whole game. Warp/Rescue/Physic/etc. ftw.

Is this strategy at all viable? I guess if you have a huge lead in turns it would help you gain exp, but it also kills your funds.

[CATS]

32x can definitely help Exp. Matthew and Legault have an innate class Exp bonus and lots of double Exp from Silencer kills; they get an absurd amount of Exp from raping all those high-level zerkers. And it's a 0 requirement chapter. You add tons and tons to your Exp gained without adding any to the total requirements. Now it does hurt Tactics and Funds alot, but it is an option.

Edited February 27, 2010 by CATS

[Don Draper]

I just think people are rotating way more then they have to. For example, look at dondon's ranked playthrough:

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=11833&st=40

He had a surplus of 10317 exp by Chapter 31, while the total exp requirements for the next few chapters was 9150. Granted, he rotated far more then usual, but I'd still be interested to know if Chapter 32x can pretty much compensate. I read one of Inui's posts where he said its possible to make up 5000 exp in that chapter. Really, any option that could lead to no rotating seems worth exploring. Rotating is what turned me off half way through my last ranked playthrough.

[frat_tastic]

That's 50 levels in one chapter. I've not done Inui's method of going to 32x, and I'm sure it can make up a lot of EXP, but 50 levels? Even if we're using Matt, Legault, and a just promoted Lyn, thats a little extreme I would think.

[Don Draper]

I am looking at 32x right now. I see one level 12 Berserker, many level 14 Berserkers, and some level 18 and 20 Berserkers. There are 16 total on the map at first plus Kishuna. I warped a unit to Kishuna (huge EXP for Warp) and 6 more level 14 Berserkers showed up, but I undid that because that unit can't win. My 20/9 Hector got 60 fucking EXP for one kill on a level 18 Berserker, and he's not the 20/1 Assassin I suggested for this chapter. Eliwood got 20 for attacking it. 1 reinforcement appeared. 2 more appeared the next turn. Then 2 more. 1 more. 1 more. 1 more. Opened the door, 2 more. Then 2 more. Then 2 more. I was capable of killing Kishuna and ending the chapter by turn 10, as I thought. The Assassins are likely to double his 25 Spd with their Killing Edges and if that fails you have range to finish him off. How many 20/14+ Berserkers was that by turn 10? That's 30.

Are you fucking kidding me? Marcus stealing 1,200 EXP to make this possible is a problem for you? Even if you gain only 50 EXP per kill here, you're getting 1,500 EXP, which is already a surplus. And 1,500 EXP is pathetic for this chapter. You should bring in 20/1 Assassins for massive EXP padding since that's the entire point of this chapter. They start off getting 100 and then it drops slightly but Silencer boosts it a bit to keep it pretty high overall. There are going to be instances where you attack or get attacked but don't get kills even with high Crit and stuff like that, and that shit happened to me and I still was in position to kill Kishuna by turn ten. Physic healing will happen and someone can use Warp and stuff like that, so +200 more EXP or something, so ~3,200 EXP is possible in this chapter alone if you play it right and blitzkrieg. But wait, I'm not done yet! On turn 12, 6 more Berserkers show up! You need two units raping the ones that show up near Kishuna, your healer can kill the one near the starting point, and you can send out two more units to clear the rest. They move towards you to make it easier. Then, 6 more show up! Then 6 more! Then 4 more! Then 4 more! Then 4 more! The last group showed up on turn 17.

Let's summarize this. We shall consider each enemy to be 80 EXP to make up for decreasing EXP gains from the initial huge ones. We'll use Physic for 11 EXP 3/4 of the time. Let's assume Marcus did tons of blitzkrieg earlier and deprived your team of a staggering 2,500 EXP and you finished other stuff really quickly, like Four-Fanged Offense, Night of Farewells, etc. since it's not too hard. Let's dump 17 saved turns into this chapter since the EXP gains are fucking through the roof. We have 60 Berserkers to feast on! 60 x 80 = 4,800, then Physic 13 times for 143 EXP, and holy dick, we're nearing 5,000 EXP for one fucking chapter if you use my Assassin idea and bring in other lower level units, and that's slightly over 12% of your entire Experience rank needs in a single chapter that Marcus played a big role in making possible.

Just got that from one of Inui's posts. Don't know how much he was exaggerating though.

[frat_tastic]

Hmm. I guess 5K is doable. The biggest problem I see with it is that you have to really scramble in Tactics to shave off those 17 turns. I guess it's not the biggest deal in the world, but Marcus can only save you so many turns, and you don't want to take too many risks of killing someone by rushing through chapters if you can help it.

[dondon151]

The problem that I see is the 100k spent on promotion items. I'd much rather just spend 17 turns milking the arena.

[Colonel M]

Yeah, I kind of have to agree with dondon to some extent. The Arena also gives you a little more liquid cash and you have competent units for the arena anyway (Raven in particular).

The biggest flaw I have with the 32X strategy is seeing those Swordslayer Berzerkers. They're not exactly common to the point of holy hell, but they're an eyesore. Uploading the savestate of 32X, there is one near the first set of stairs to the northwest, one right near the door to Kishuna, and one directly in a corner. The second one has a Tomahawk on him so you could at least proceed with a Player Phase kill. Mekkah's Hector was packing about 70 Avoid and seeing those 20% Hit Rates, while it is true that the True Hit helps you, is still playing dangerous. That Swordslayer Berzerker moves too (the one that drops it) so you have to switch to an Axe, which means goodbye +15 Avoid. Thankfully the Tomahawk one is too retarded to pull out Swordslayer for some odd reason. Turn 13 another Swordslayer Berzerker appears near Kishuna. Turn 19 another one appears.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call 32X a bust. If you promote a Assassin (I wouldn't recommend two, just go for Lyn or some other Sword unit in that case), it can prove to be a worthwhile chapter. It does involve playing a little bit of risk, but I wouldn't call it unfeasible. Would I rely on it as a crutch though? I dunno, I'd probably consider using the Arena first I guess, but it is also true that you can get more EXP out of 32X probably. The weight here is more EXP vs. more liquid funds.

Edited February 28, 2010 by Colonel M

[CATS]

Just use a lancereaver to weaken those guys.

[Colonel M]

Just use a lancereaver to weaken those guys.

While it's easy to target the first one, you also have to make sure someone is near you on the others. Not to mention if the scenario fails that you lose 30 Avoid.

[CATS]

Or, you trade a killing edge back to the top of the inventory afterwards.

[Colonel M]

Yes I know it work with the respawn ones. It's the one that moves around is a bit more difficult.

Either way using both the arena and 32X is plausable. But I wouldn't give 32X the reasn to flaunt EXP Rank being a joke or something.

[Inui]

Is this strategy at all viable? I guess if you have a huge lead in turns it would help you gain exp, but it also kills your funds.

Funds isn't a big deal. I guess it's not some super joke, but being more conservative with Funds and finishing quickly throughout the game allows you to gain a massive amount of EXP and some Funds in that chapter. You forgot you can pick up some valuable items in there? You pick up a Runesword, Fortify staff, and a Swordslayer, which is 13,330 Gold. It's not a whole lot, but it's there to help make up for the costs of going to this chapter.

The problem that I see is the 100k spent on promotion items. I'd much rather just spend 17 turns milking the arena.

It's not 100k. It's 75k. The second Fell Contract should be purchased with the Silver Card.

The 17 turns milking the arena is better for Funds, but not for Experience. You can get nearly 300 EXP per turn in 32x, which you can't really do with the arena, and you get 13,330 Gold in assets from the chapter anyways.

The biggest flaw I have with the 32X strategy is seeing those Swordslayer Berzerkers. They're not exactly common to the point of holy hell, but they're an eyesore. Uploading the savestate of 32X, there is one near the first set of stairs to the northwest, one right near the door to Kishuna, and one directly in a corner. The second one has a Tomahawk on him so you could at least proceed with a Player Phase kill. Mekkah's Hector was packing about 70 Avoid and seeing those 20% Hit Rates, while it is true that the True Hit helps you, is still playing dangerous. That Swordslayer Berzerker moves too (the one that drops it) so you have to switch to an Axe, which means goodbye +15 Avoid. Thankfully the Tomahawk one is too retarded to pull out Swordslayer for some odd reason. Turn 13 another Swordslayer Berzerker appears near Kishuna. Turn 19 another one appears.

Hector or Lancereavers can deal with those guys.

Well, I wouldn't exactly call 32X a bust. If you promote a Assassin (I wouldn't recommend two, just go for Lyn or some other Sword unit in that case), it can prove to be a worthwhile chapter. It does involve playing a little bit of risk, but I wouldn't call it unfeasible. Would I rely on it as a crutch though? I dunno, I'd probably consider using the Arena first I guess, but it is also true that you can get more EXP out of 32X probably. The weight here is more EXP vs. more liquid funds.

I'd honestly go with two. You can play through the game using Iron almost the entire time and rarely ever have to use good weapons. You also shouldn't be promoting everyone ever. Conserving enough Gold to make the Experience rank much easier is very much worth it.

Yes I know it work with the respawn ones. It's the one that moves around is a bit more difficult.

Either way using both the arena and 32X is plausable. But I wouldn't give 32X the reasn to flaunt EXP Rank being a joke or something.

It's not a joke, but as someone else stated, the Experience rank is kinda overhyped here.

Btw, I read your post trying to tell me off or some shit, and I have one thing to say: SF deserves every accusation I've made, I stand by them, and I'm very far from alone when it comes to what I think about how a lot of SFers act. Other than that, I don't care enough to argue with a kid on the Internet about such things.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Inui

[Colonel M]

Anyway...

I guess I'll put Cavs > Guy. We can discuss Oswin later.

[dondon151]

It's not 100k. It's 75k. The second Fell Contract should be purchased with the Silver Card.

False. You spend 25k G on the second Fell Contract, obtaining an item of 50k G worth. Once you use that Fell Contract, that's 50k G worth gone. All liquid assets that you have are worth double, because spending 10k G on something that's not Farina results in obtaining 20k G worth of non-liquid assets.

I have empirical evidence that, with promoted Eliwood, unpromoted Lyn, unpromoted Dart, unpromoted thieves, and unrecruited Farina, spending 40k G in the final chapter would decrease my funds rank by 1 star. There is very little leeway for spending 100k G worth of items.

The 17 turns milking the arena is better for Funds, but not for Experience. You can get nearly 300 EXP per turn in 32x, which you can't really do with the arena, and you get 13,330 Gold in assets from the chapter anyways.

You're assuming a near-constant flow of assassin silencers, which is unrealistic because not only can silencer fail to proc, but you might kill the enemy before silencer gets a chance to proc, and whatnot. You might not even KO an enemy because a crit fails to proc either time, and that's a bunch of EXP down the drain for that one turn. Additionally, the 13,330 G of items is not related the the EXP obtained from the chapter. You can speed through with a core team and still get the assets.

Edited March 2, 2010 by dondon151

[Inui]

I wasn't assuming a whole fuckton of Silencers. I was assuming failures to one-round increasing EXP as well as every kill being 100 EXP for the first few levels regardless of Silencer or not. I'm also assuming use of Physic from the corners. The 13,330 Gold worth of items is merely some cash to help make up for what was spent to use the Assassins.

I really, really don't find money to ever be a problem. Do other people have this need to use lots of good weapons and promote the whole cast? I use Iron for the entire game and prepromoted units make up at least half of my team.