FE7 HHM Ranked Tier List

[chrysalid]

I just finished a pretty lean logged HHM S-rank run and I had somewhere between 65-70k over 5-star funds at the beginning of Final. Plus, you get another 30k legroom as 1/5th of the 150k raw loot in Final itself. There was even a little bit more I could have done - I never bothered to Hammerne my original Wolf Biel and Rapier, which would have netted me like another 10k.

Going by my final total funds in battle history and the estimated 5-star funds on the Serene's rankings page, I had about 90k over funds, which is around my above estimates.

In that run:

I used 120k of promotion items (one heaven seal and ten 10k items). I burned only one stat booster, the boots. I visited every town, opened every chest, and stole everything including most lockpicks and a few vulnaries. I spent all my liquid cash in the 32 secret shop with the silver card, and I got a fair amount of use out of the 24 arena with Ninian'd Geitz (healed with Physic) and 15 shots of the 31x arena at the high 500-low 600 wager level. I didn't play Lyn mode so she came with just a blue gem, and I didn't get 19xx, although I did every other gaiden including 32x. I generally didn't use the expensive stuff aside from Physic/Barrier and pinched pennies when I could (ex. I'd use fire instead of thunder if I was going to 2RKO either way). Didn't use Warp or any of the status staves, didn't use any of the expensive tomes aside from a few Luna shots with Athos (and took Aura rather than Purge from Kenneth).

I came in like 50 levels over XP rank and 14 turns under tactics and I was completely blundering through the post-CoD chapters with overlevelled characters because I was getting bored, so the strain of cheaping out wasn't making things impossibly difficult. I did have a ridiculously good Heath.

Some of the funds stuff I did was silly (but fun) and hurt me a tad in other ranks, like using Ninian tactics to get all the lockpicks from chapters 27 and 28. However, if I were doing another HHM ranked run I would try to fit at least the early chapter 15 defense booster, a body ring, the boots, and one of the 50k characters (meaning Farina, Dart, or an assassin promo) into S-rank funds.

Edited March 5, 2010 by chrysalid

[Don Draper]

Out of curiosity, what were your character levels around VOD?

[chrysalid]

Out of curiosity, what were your character levels around VOD?

At the beginning:

Hector 20/4

Eliwood 20/2 (promoted him in 31, he was speed screwed)

Erk 20/8

Fiora 20/9

Heath 20/10

Isadora X/2

Kent 20/2

Lowen 20/1

Lucius 20/10

Nils 11

Pent 20/9

Louise 20/5

Priscilla 20/14

Raven 20/9

Serra 20/13

Eliwood, the cavaliers and Louise were just there for XP, they weren't doing any heavy lifting. I was paranoid about the XP rank for no good reason at that point.

[Redthir Jerdisheim]

You either argue Lucius down or you argue Canas up, you can't just skip every unit in between if Canas matches up well to Lucius. Honestly, I don't know where this line of thought came up.

1. Lucius exists on the enemy phase too, he isn't getting killed in one hit. It's not like they're in the middle of 4 enemies every turn.

2. Lucius faces crit only when being attacked by an enemy and even then it's too low to matter.

3. One-rounding machine? Yeah, no.

4. Oh yeah, definitely. 2 rounding enemies = helping Tactics rank.

5. Uh, no he isn't. Two rounding enemies does not make you god.

This one I'll laugh at individually. Here's what the important enemies look like in VoD.

12 AS Silver Bow Snipers

11 AS Killer Lance Wyvern Riders

14 AS Silver Lance Wyvern Lords

12 AS Longsword/Silver Lance Paladins

18 AS Silver Sword Heroes

16 AS Silver Axe Heroes

22 AS Wo Dao Swordmasters

13 AS Silver Axe/Killer Bow Warriors

13 AS Silver Sword Paladins

14 AS Elfire Valks

15 AS Steel Sword/ Steel Bow Nomad Troops

Wait a second..is Canas not one rounding ANY of them? Yeah, you're right; he can't even double them with Luna at a level your characters are unlikely to be at. Far more realistic levels would be 20/7 for your average unit at this point (IE ones without EXP boosts like Bishops/Assassins/Valkyries) thanks to rotation. Anyway, Lucius at 20/7 has 19 AS and 7 con, Canas has 17 AS and 8 con.

Lucius doubles:

12 AS Silver Bow Snipers (Kills)

11 AS Killer Lance Wyvern Riders (Kills)

14 AS Silver Lance Wyvern Lords (Kills)

12 AS Longsword/Silver Lance Paladins (Kills)

13 AS Silver Axe/Killer Bow Warriors (Kills)

13 AS Silver Sword Paladins (Kills)

14 AS Elfire Valks (Two-round)

15 AS Steel Sword/ Steel Bow Nomad Troops (Must use Lightning; Kill)

Lucius does not double:

18 AS Silver Sword Hero

16 AS Silver Axe Hero

22 AS Wo Dao Swordmasters

Canas doubles (With Flux only):

12 AS Silver Bow Snipers (Kill)

11 AS Killer Lance Wyvern Riders (Kill)

12 AS Longsword/Silver Lance Paladins (Kill)

13 AS Silver Axe/Killer Bow Warriors (Cannot kill ones that get too much HP)

13 AS Silver Sword Paladins (Kill)

Canas does not double:

14 AS Silver Lance Wyvern Lords

18 AS Silver Sword Hero

16 AS Silver Axe Hero

22 AS Wo Dao Swordmasters

14 AS Elfire Valks

15 AS Steel Sword/ Steel Bow Nomad Troops

Canas gets doubled by:

22 AS Wo Dao Swordmasters

Keeping in mind that Canas can't one round anything using Luna without a crit regardless, he is not one rounding as many enemies as Lucius is because of it. Canas has 25 atk with Flux, Lucius has 29 with Shine and 27 with Lightning against the Nomads. VoD is hardly a win for him.

I'm fine with Colonel M making the topic on GameFAQs. Just let Jaffar re-make it when he gets back.

Maybe my Canas got RNG blessed, but he has been the best unit in the entire game for both by HNM and HHM. On my HHM, he's a Level 9 Druid and he has 19 Speed. And he doubles most enemies. At least, he's kicked ass up to Chapter 28 (which I'm currently trying to complete). Canas also has a high magic growth, which makes him the best choice for a healer (I choose him over Priscilla).

I've had a look at the comment about Rath's stats being perfectly good against Isadora's, and that's with him promoted at Level 10.

Chapter 22, where you first recruit Rath has a LOT of wyvern riders. He will usually be level 9 on my playthroughs at this point.

Chapter 23 - An unlikely choice, because Rath's movement is severely hindered. The side quest is another unlikely choice, since he will probably never be at a suitable level for the chapter.

Chapter 24 has the Arena, and about 85% of all enemies are Wyvern Riders, who Rath is useful against or Pirates, who suck anyway.

Rath is quite a fast unit, and shouldn't be doubled in the Arena too often. Arena opponents generally have more HP, Strength and Speed but lower Skill.

Defence and Resistance are roughly equal. Rath can be Arena abused and can avoid being underleveled. In every playthrough so far, my Rath never runs out of uses. Half the time he has more Speed than Rebecca.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Redthir Jerdisheim

[Ether]

Maybe my Canas got RNG blessed, but he has been the best unit in the entire game for both by HNM and HHM. On my HHM, he's a Level 9 Druid and he has 19 Speed. And he doubles most enemies. At least, he's kicked ass up to Chapter 28 (which I'm currently trying to complete). Canas also has a high magic growth, which makes him the best choice for a healer (I choose him over Priscilla).

Just gonna ask here,but why is the first quote there?it doesn't seem to be relevant to your post.

[Life]

According to a buddy of ours on GameFAQs, Dorcas and Bartre should not have a tier's difference (he's obviously posted reasons) and rather maintains that Bartre > Dorcas which I don't agree with. There are a couple other changes I want to make to this list regarding the Upper Mid and Lower Mid tiers. Bolded are the proposed changes.

-Upper Mid-

Pent

Lucius

Harken

Geitz

Legault

Canas

Fiora

Dorcas

Hawkeye

-Lower Mid-

Heath

Athos

Lyn

Isadora

Bartre

Jaffar

1. Dorcas down from above Geitz to below Fiora. Dorcas may have great availability because of his Chapter 12 joining time but it's really all he has for him, even considering his LHM level of 7 or so. 7 AS is great for the early game but he has a measly Spd growth of 20. Sooner or later (usually sooner), he stops doubling his enemies (any enemy with 6+ AS escapes a Dorcas double until after the man promotes, if he does) and that's when his weaknesses show. 4 Def with a 25 growth rate will not keep him alive for long (even with ~33 HP), especially since his 18 Mt with an Iron Axe won't have him one-shotting anything. Steel Axe gives him 21 Mt but he loses 1 AS which hurts his already preciously low Spd. He's got 4 chapters max before enemies fully escape the double and once they do, Dorcas is in trouble as he loses health quickly and can't ORKO anything at that point. This is just a blanket statement on Dorcas, more coming in a sec.

2. Canas > Fiora. As expensive as Luna is (150G a pop), it offers Canas a way to do rather devastating damage to bosses that Erk and Lucius can't compete with. Level 14 Canas!Luna does ~13 damage with a 24% chance of a critical happening (can't remember how much HP Darin has but if it's 39-, Canas OHKO's him 1/4 of the time). Aside from that, he's a rather decent fighter with the second best defense of any magic user (Pent tops this list). Promotion gives him 4 HP, 3 Spd, 2 Def and E Staves, giving him that staff Exp pool to draw from. He'll fight for the 3rd or 4th Guiding Ring (will probably lose to Prissy but has better overall stats than Lucius and won't die if he gets poked by a metal rod) and could possibly get it. Also, early promotion is very possible as it does wonders for Canas' Spd and puts him in the "healer who will not die" category that both Prissy and Serra don't exist in. It also ups Canas' Con to 8, giving him no penalty from Flux.

Fiora, on the other hand, is outclassed by her younger sister and comes at a rather inopportune time (fighting pirates in the middle of a Fog of War map). She will not get the first Elysian Whip and has 0 actual supports aside from a potential B Florina A Farina if Farina gets played. Furthermore, Heath has much better stats at lower levels thanks to his HHM bonuses which makes him a candidate for the second Elysian Whip if you're willing to wait about a chapter or two to promote a second flier. She also has defense woes (21 HP and 6 Def isn't going to cut it for a melee unit) and because she is primary eating counters while Canas isn't, Fiora has a much easier chance of dying. She has flying utility but Florina has that too and does the job better than her sister.

Take it for what you want but I think that Canas > Fiora.

3. Bartre > Jaffar. Bartre has a huge availability gap on Jaffar and allows for 18 levels of Exp to be put into him. Jaffar will never be considered an actual combat unit in the same way that a couple of fries will never be considered a 4 course meal and is rather just Exp fodder with Silencer waiting to happen. He's a gimmick unit for the endgame basically. Bartre also has early game use and once he gets over that Spd hump of 3 base (40 growth rate), he stops getting doubled and it doesn't take long for him to get better than Dorcas at fighting (or anything, really).

4. Hawkeye to Upper Mid and Dorcas > Hawkeye. The resident desert man has ridiculously good bases and 20 innate crit before considering his water and mountain walking skills (26 and 28x is where it really comes into play). 11 base AS should be enough to double anything of significance in his joining chapter and a Killer Axe gives him 50+ Crit with 29 Att. However, he misses out on the beginning of the game when Dorcas is available. Dorcas does have that LHM level which helps against the enemies that exist that Bartre can't yet handle (first 3 or so chapters). Dorcas' early game contributions outweigh Hawkeye's later game perks.

[Colonel M]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to say. Jaffar7 can have his tier list back. I'm kind of done with ranks.

[Life]

Oh yeah, I almost forgot to say. Jaffar7 can have his tier list back. I'm kind of done with ranks.

Jaffar7 don't exist no more AKA he just pops up whenever he wants.

I'll check with the GameFAQs guys but I don't mind taking control of the list for X amount of time. I've got my playthroughs which will for sure give me a good idea on where everybody stands on the list. You mind at all, Colonel?

[CATS]

I like how people are still talking about "owning" the tier list and "giving" it to each other. A fairly ridiculous concept considering how much any one person has actually contributed towards the shaping of the list.

[Colonel M]

I don't care who takes it. I just want this off of my hands.

Forever.

[Dat Nick]

Jaffar7 don't exist no more AKA he just pops up whenever he wants.

I'll check with the GameFAQs guys but I don't mind taking control of the list for X amount of time. I've got my playthroughs which will for sure give me a good idea on where everybody stands on the list. You mind at all, Colonel?

Well, Colonel said I could have the list, but I wouldn't have a problem with you instead.

So I forfeit the rights to run the ranked list to Corn-Puffed cereal.

Edited March 21, 2010 by s Portsman

[Life]

Well, Colonel said I could have the list, but I wouldn't have a problem with you instead.

So I forfeit the rights to run the ranked list to Corn-Puffed cereal.

If you want it, then be my guess. Or if CATS wants it...

Edited March 21, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Inui]

I think it should be someone that keeps their cool.

Which means all three of you are horrible choices.

[-Cynthia-]

I like how people are still talking about "owning" the tier list and "giving" it to each other. A fairly ridiculous concept considering how much any one person has actually contributed towards the shaping of the list.

Someone has to run the opening post so they can make the changes. Complaining about how they seem like they're "owning" it seems petty and pointless.

[Life]

I think it should be someone that keeps their cool.

Which means all three of you are horrible choices.

Aye, you be right there, sonny.

In all seriousness, I'm probably going to be working a lot more with the list on GameFAQs than here.

[Narga_Rocks]

Well, Colonel said I could have the list, but I wouldn't have a problem with you instead.

So I forfeit the rights to run the ranked list to Corn-Puffed cereal.

Oh please. I think you are about as happy to not have it as Colonel M will be if he can pass it off.

[Life]

If nobody has any objections, I will run this shit straight into the ground the tier list on the basis of just changing the first post. If something develops on GameFAQs, I'll link you guys to it. Like I said above, I'll probably argue more there (I'm also a lot nicer there as I can't edit my posts).

Edited March 21, 2010 by Admiral Lifey Crunch

[Narga_Rocks]

If nobody has any objections, I will run this shit straight into the ground the tier list on the basis of just changing the first post. If something develops on GameFAQs, I'll link you guys to it. Like I said above, I'll probably argue more there (I'm also a lot nicer there as I can't edit my posts).

I wouldn't ask for that. Just a majority. I suppose a two-thirds majority may be a better idea than a simple majority, but there is no way we are reaching a consensus.

One person has already said that a single person should never be in charge of a tier list, and another person said you, Colonel M, and BBlader are all bad choices.

You'll do fine, I'm sure. Well, unless Mori wants to run it. But otherwise I vote you.

[Dat Nick]

Oh please. I think you are about as happy to not have it as Colonel M will be if he can pass it off.

No, not particularly.

[Florete]

I think it should be someone that keeps their cool.

Which means all three of you are horrible choices.

And who would you suggest?

EDIT: Personally I'm fine with Life or Mori editing it.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Red Fox of Fire

[Colonel M]

To be fair: the person throwing the objection is just as horrible not a good choice either, but that's just my karma talking.

[Narga_Rocks]

No, not particularly.

You mean you aren't happy to be rid of the ranked list?

[-Cynthia-]

And who would you suggest?

EDIT: Personally I'm fine with Life or Mori editing it.

It's Inui, I think it's fairly obvious who he wants (hint: their name is all caps).

[Inui]

And who would you suggest?

EDIT: Personally I'm fine with Life or Mori editing it.

CATS.

To be fair: the person throwing the objection is just as horrible not a good choice either, but that's just my karma talking.

You're right. And?

[Florete]

It's Inui, I think it's fairly obvious who he wants (hint: their name is all caps).

CATS.

And Cynthia calls it!