How does this board feel about these arguments?

[Reikken]

the

hey guys, let's pimp out Mia

and the

hey guys, let's pimp out Jill and Nolan

arguments

[Narga_Rocks]

the

hey guys, let's pimp out Mia

and the

hey guys, let's pimp out Jill and Nolan

arguments

How do you "pimp out" Jill and Nolan?

I assume for Mia you are talking about the Ike support and Adept.

[Reikken]

You give the majority of your stuff (including exp) to them instead of to other DB units, since they can do the most with it, and it makes them amazing.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Reikken

[Florete]

You give the majority of your stuff (including exp) to them instead of to other DB units, since they can do the most with it, and it makes them amazing.

When did we ever say we do that? Or are you saying we should?

[Colonel M]

I'm liking the direction where this sermon is going.

[Narga_Rocks]

When did we ever say we do that? Or are you saying we should?

You know, if there was a way to get Jill and Nolan to 20/20/1 by the start of part 4 without making parts 1 and 3 a lot more difficult for the DB I'd strongly consider it. But I can't imagine that you can focus too much on Jill and Nolan while still playing efficiently. Ike x Mia is actually more efficient than the alternatives, and ditto Adept at least until the hawks arrive.

Anyway, I generally give Nolan and Jill exclusive rights to the DB's paragon in 3-6 and 3-12 and 3-13. Usually 3-6 for one of them and 3-12 + 3-13 for the other. That's favouring them over others because of their part 4 potential and because at this point paragon on some other DBer in 3-6 isn't really going to make 3-12 or 3-13 oh so much easier.

Oh, and I definitely give them both good forges in part 1, but since I give most DB units I'm using good forges that's certainly not giving them the majority of my stuff.

So, what more can I give them? Well, I suppose the draco and seraph robes and energy drop. I like giving a robe to Jill. I suppose I could stick the drop on Jill and give Nolan the second robe and the shield. Those are things that can't be given to both Jill/Nolan and other DB members at the same time. I suppose we could ask people what they think of that idea.

[Reikken]

When did we ever say we do that? Or are you saying we should?

I said neither. I simply asked what the community here thinks of the idea/argument.

You know, if there was a way to get Jill and Nolan to 20/20/1 by the start of part 4 without making parts 1 and 3 a lot more difficult for the DB I'd strongly consider it.

I think it makes it easier, aside from stuff like Nailah solo in 1-F. Uber Nolan/Jill rickrolling chapters is pretty effective.

[Narga_Rocks]

I think it makes it easier, aside from stuff like Nailah solo in 1-F. Uber Nolan/Jill rickrolling chapters is pretty effective.

But you have to get them there, first. How easy will it be to focus, say, 80% of the kills in 1-6-1 onto Nolan and Jill? Keep in mind, Jill is at base level, probably has a seraph robe and maybe has an energy drop. Both likelyshould have forges. Somehow I doubt that this will go anywhere near as well as playing it without focusing kills onto them. Nolan you can, of course, start early, but focusing a lot of kills onto him earlier on is similarly difficult. Sure, if you can promote them at level 20 and have Nolan at 20/1 for 1-8 and Jill at 20/1 for 1-E it might make things easier. Even still, I don't think so. Nolan against 1/2 the map in 1-8? Nailah and Volug can take care of the west, the LEA the south, but Nolan still needs to kill most of the units in the remaining areas if we are attempting to favour him. Even come 3-6, if you have an uber Nolan/Jill but Volug has A strike and your other units aren't combat-ready, I can't imagine having an easier time. Basically, I can't see any benefit from this until 3-12 at the earliest, and until then it's all pain.

[Colonel M]

Nolan and Jill are not the reasons why Part IV is easier. It's mostly the GM's that make the major impact as well as the Laguz in general.

It's fine to favor one or two of the DB units, but more than that seems impractical. And I'd choose Nolan and Jill before I choose some scrub like, say, Aran or Edward Cullen.

[Inui]

I really like Reikken.

[Silith]

I agree on pimping out Nolan and Jill they are easily the best choices of the DB.

I don't agree on pimping out Mia. She's in my opinion one of the worst choices of the GM. Like the other Failblades she gets too much Fanpreference. Getting hit with 50-60 % while dieing in two hits is not a dodger to me and for the pitifull damage she does I won't put her on the field either. I usually use her in 3-1 to grab the Seraph Robe house while the rest pushes onward. From 3-2 onwards she's on the Bench.

[whase]

I agree on pimping out Nolan and Jill they are easily the best choices of the DB.

I don't agree on pimping out Mia. She's in my opinion one of the worst choices of the GM. Like the other Failblades she gets too much Fanpreference. Getting hit with 50-60 % while dieing in two hits is not a dodger to me and for the pitifull damage she does I won't put her on the field either. I usually use her in 3-1 to grab the Seraph Robe house while the rest pushes onward. From 3-2 onwards she's on the Bench.

with a little training she will actually evade within 3 good chapters. just like any swordmaster/trueblade.

I did a Swordsmasters and rogues only PT lately. I'd say Mia came out third best, after Lucia (1.) and Edward (2.). (stefan was worst, lol) Lucia even evaded Ashera with 59% chance to hit!

EDIT: and yes, Nolan and Jill also rock!

Edited February 17, 2010 by whase

[Progenitus]

We all know how everyone feels about that argument for Mia.

Which makes me wonder why they wouldn't bother to do the same with Nolan or Jill (or Zihark, who for some reason wasn't mentioned).

Nolan and Jill are not the reasons why Part IV is easier. It's mostly the GM's that make the major impact as well as the Laguz in general.

true story; master crown'd nolan and still 2nd tier Zihark took on half of 4-2. Everyone else, including tibarn, took on the other half.

Nolan and Zihark has less problems.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Andrew W.K.

[Interceptor]

hey guys, let's pimp out Jill and Nolan

arguments

Nobody actually argues this. I don't have any problem with stuffing a unit with resources, though. Any unit, as long as they deliver. This game rewards you for overpowering a small number of characters, so there's a pretty strong incentive to do so.

[Rewjeo]

I agree on pimping out Nolan and Jill they are easily the best choices of the DB.

I don't agree on pimping out Mia. She's in my opinion one of the worst choices of the GM. Like the other Failblades she gets too much Fanpreference. Getting hit with 50-60 % while dieing in two hits is not a dodger to me and for the pitifull damage she does I won't put her on the field either. I usually use her in 3-1 to grab the Seraph Robe house while the rest pushes onward. From 3-2 onwards she's on the Bench.

lolwut? At 20/12-13 with A Ike she has 103 AVO. The most accurate enemy in 3-5 in HM has 157 HIT. That's 54 displayed hit. Okay, so that's about what you said besides the fact that she's 3HKOd. Except that's only one crossbow warrior and everyone hates those guys. The NEXT most accurate unit has 43 displayed hit, but 4HKOs her. After that all the enemies range from lol6-34 displayed HIT on her.

At the same level, she has a 51% chance to proc Adept, 36% to crit w/out adept, and 48.8% to crit w/ adept using a wo dao. She also has 30% vantage.

So against the most accurate unit she has a ~16% chance to die in 3 rounds. Next most accurate has a 3.4% chance to kill her in four rounds. Meanwhile, assuming she 3HKOs them, she has a ~69% to ORKO them. Even w/ worst bio, she has a 30ish% chance to survive three attacks from the crossbow guy while still having a 60ish% chance to ORKO. And even on good bio, nothing has >50 HIT on her. On best, she has a 77% chance to ORKO as well as facing 8.5% chance of death in 3 rounds at worst.

I didn't bother to check true hit, but that would only make her even more durable everywhere except against the crossbow user. And even then, it would only make a significant difference when she's on worst bio.

[RNG Princess]

I tried pimping out Nolan and he ended up useless, I can never go wrong with Jill but Edward always gets my favoritism.

Mia is annoying I only use her if I need her but she is very useful she makes Edward cry.

[Narga_Rocks]

We all know how everyone feels about that argument for Mia.

Which makes me wonder why they wouldn't bother to do the same with Nolan or Jill (or Zihark, who for some reason wasn't mentioned).

How do you "pimp out" Jill and Nolan?

You know, if there was a way to get Jill and Nolan to 20/20/1 by the start of part 4 without making parts 1 and 3 a lot more difficult for the DB I'd strongly consider it. But I can't imagine that you can focus too much on Jill and Nolan while still playing efficiently. Ike x Mia is actually more efficient than the alternatives, and ditto Adept at least until the hawks arrive.

Anyway, I generally give Nolan and Jill exclusive rights to the DB's paragon in 3-6 and 3-12 and 3-13.

I like giving a robe to Jill.

I suppose I could stick the drop on Jill and give Nolan the second robe and the shield.

I suppose we could ask people what they think of that idea.

Oh, and the reason that Jill isn't assumed to get more stuff is mostly you, since you don't respond well to the suggestion of giving Jill a robe + shield + drop, even though I'd happily do so in order to make her able to surive two 39mt tigers in part 3 and it would make her nearly as good as her transfer self in part 1. So yeah...

What were you saying about

"Which makes me wonder why they wouldn't bother to do the same with Nolan or Jill"

You have a serious habit of making mega Straw Mans. Is it fun for you to make yourself appear the fool?

As for Zihark, assuming Mia got earth (and Z got Earth, or you can assume Z didn't and M didn't get earth) she's >> Zihark in part 4, thanks to a major offence lead and similar levels of durability (she has more hp/def and he has an insignificant lead in avo after he promotes) so there isn't any point in helping Z out. Paragon won't make up for his inferiority. Nolan > Boyd and Jill can be more useful in 4-E than Haar, so at least their counterparts don't blow them away. Zihark? Left in the dust. I can't imagine any favouring that doesn't cross the line into inefficient play could possibly make Zihark > Mia in part 4, especially since you could do the same to Mia in the GM chapters and probably get her to 20/20/5 or higher if you could get Z near promotion after the DB part 3 chapters.

Basically, there isn't much point in doing much more for Zihark than is already done, so it should be obvious what the "some reason" is that he wasn't mentioned. Then again, it was Reikken, so I suppose it is odd that Z wasn't mentioned.

true story; master crown'd nolan and still 2nd tier Zihark took on half of 4-2. Everyone else, including tibarn, took on the other half.

Okay, and with only a couple of units that weren't going to the tower weakening for Elincia she cleared out half of 4-2 for me. By the time she was half way through the map she no longer even needed the weakeners since Paragon brought her stats up to ORKOing. In other words, she cleared out at least a quarter of the map by herself. And considering those units not going to the tower have nothing better to do, it's not bad that she needed them. It lets you focus the other half of the maps' kills on other units you plan on taking. I had Gatrie weaken for Ilyana and Calill to get them as many kills as possible.

Your PE argument doesn't really mean anything more than mine, and we all know what you think about Elincia.

Nolan and Zihark has less problems.

Than who? Tibarn and the rest? What were you doing with Tibarn? He should have no issue with the 1 range, and the 1-2 range just die on player phase and he cantos away. There aren't exactly enough 1-2 range for that to not work. How did Nolan and Zihark have an easier time? If you were focusing exp on non-Tibarn units, then using him in the comparison in which you say N and Z had an easier time is clearly an attempt to mislead us into thinking Nolan and Zihark were better in this chapter than Tibarn.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I'd rather eat wax fruit than use Mia. Gawd shes awful. Nolan is usually the DB guy i use the most. Jill too. Most of the love goes to them and Volug. If im feeling saucey, i use Edward. Fiona gets pimped out too. I only need to use one secret book on her and shes fine.

[Just call me AL]

I'd rather eat wax fruit than use Mia. Gawd shes awful. Nolan is usually the DB guy i use the most. Jill too. Most of the love goes to them and Volug. If im feeling saucey, i use Edward. Fiona gets pimped out too. I only need to use one secret book on her and shes fine.

How does being the best SM in the game equate to being awful? I just want to know here.

[nflchamp]

This board is largely in the camp that equal distribution of resources is a stupid idea that contradicts efficiency. So whatever is justified as an efficient way of using resources is put into effect rather than equal distribution.

[Silith]

How does being the best SM in the game equate to being awful? I just want to know here.

Best unit of one of the worst classes doesn't make her good.

Also earlier on someone talked about her avoidance. Sure I never trained her that far to get her avoid up but does her strength rise too? I'm pretty sure it will never go beyond 32 and with that restrictment to Swords and a crappy Mastery Skill she souldn't be taken to endgame. Especially when you can take Cats and Ravens who do the same jobs better.

[Florete]

Best unit of one of the worst classes doesn't make her good.

How the hell is SM/Trueblade a bad class? Awesome Spd and usually decent Strength make for pretty good units.

Also earlier on someone talked about her avoidance. Sure I never trained her that far to get her avoid up but does her strength rise too? I'm pretty sure it will never go beyond 32 and with that restrictment to Swords and a crappy Mastery Skill she souldn't be taken to endgame. Especially when you can take Cats and Ravens who do the same jobs better.

Her caps are just fine, even if her Str is low. She'll still 2 hit most things and is awesome with Adept for other things and has massive crit on top of Astra. Lol @ Cats and Ravens.

[Shadow Mir]

Best unit of one of the worst classes doesn't make her good.

Also earlier on someone talked about her avoidance. Sure I never trained her that far to get her avoid up but does her strength rise too? I'm pretty sure it will never go beyond 32 and with that restrictment to Swords and a crappy Mastery Skill she souldn't be taken to endgame. Especially when you can take Cats and Ravens who do the same jobs better.

Troll harder.

How the hell do you go and bash Swordmasters, saying they're a bad class, then turn around and recommend cats and ravens, who *ARE* terrible classes?

Edited February 20, 2010 by Richter Renard

[Silith]

I'm talking about endgame here. With the low Str of Trueblades they are not a logical option to take for me. Since laguz gems come in play it's far easier to use Cats and Ravens who have better stats all around. The only thing you'll lose is that first turn to use the gem but after that they'll rock.

EDIT:

From my previous post it indeed seems I am recommending Ravens and Cats. I am however not doing this. I'm stating that Cats and Ravens are better options then Swordmasters while they furfill almost the same role. (High Speed, Dodgetanks)

If you want my recommendation I'dd say go with units with more strength. in the endgame there are few enemies with ample Speed that the high amount of a Trueblade, Cat or Raven is needed. Reavers, Dracoknights and Seraph Knihgts are more recommended. Also Marksmen because of that 3 range.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Silith

[Ether]

I'm talking about endgame here. With the low Str of Trueblades they are not a logical option to take for me. Since laguz gems come in play it's far easier to use Cats and Ravens who have better stats all around. The only thing you'll lose is that first turn to use the gem but after that they'll rock.

The only Cat/Raven with noticably more Str than a capped TB is Ranulf,AT MAX LEVELConsidering Laguz won;t hit Max level in HM,and that TB's get Wyrmslayers,1-2 range weapons with the same MT as SS strike,and have more Crit by far,they are logically a much better endgame candidate than Cats/Ravens.