FE6 Ranks

[Colonel M]

A lot of it is somewhat copy -> pasted on here, but I did do some re-arranging to help with units that take penalties with ranks (i.e. Gonzo having mediocre hit rates now become an issue with Combat Rank). I'm also putting A Gonzales and B Gonzales back, though we can just scrap that too if we necessarily have to. Finally, don't come in here and say "wtf @ this". Look, I can't do everything myself and running Ranks isn't as easy as you think. If there's something majorly wrong with the list, then just address it normally. No need to call me incompetent like I was back in the FE7 Tier List (which I felt quite offended as I felt I did a good job with it since I've addressed many issues and made arguments on my own).

Either way, there's different places to flame me at. Like, AIM. MSN. NBC. Do it there, not here.

Ilia Route

-Top Tier-

Lance

Alan

Dieck

Rutger

Lalum

Elphin

Miledy

Percival

High Tier:

Clarine

Saul

Ellen

Echinda

Chad

Astohl

Gonzales (A)

-Upper Mid Tier-

Marcus

Fir

Shin

Lot

Tate

Lugh

Klein

-Lower Mid Tier-

Roy

Thany

Cecilia

Bartre

Zealot

Oujay

Noah

Treck

Gonzales (B)

Geese

Fa

Ward

Ray

Lilina

Zeiss

Niime

Igrene

Garret

Douglas

Barth

-Low Tier-

Cath

Sue

Boris

Yodel

-Bottom Tier-

Hugh

Dorothy

Walt

Juno

Karel

Sophia

Wendy

Sacae Route

-Top Tier-

Lance

Alan

Dieck

Rutger

Lalum

Elphin

Percival

Miledy

-High Tier-

Clarine

Saul

Ellen

Echinda

Chad

Astohl

-Upper Mid Tier-

Marcus

Shin

Fir

Lot

Gonzales (A)

Klein

Tate

Lugh

-Lower Mid Tier-

Thany

Roy

Cecilia

Bartre

Zealot

Oujay

Noah

Treck

Gonzales (B)

Geese

Fa

Ward

Ray

Lilina

Niime

Igrene

Garret

Douglas

Barth

-Low Tier-

Cath

Hugh

Boris

Zeiss

Sue

Dayan

Yodel

-Bottom Tier-

Dorothy

Walt

Karel

Sophia

Wendy

Probably a lot of inconsistencies, but again: you are welcome to address them with a level head. No need to throw elitism at me.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Tyranel M

[frat_tastic]

Either Clarine down a tier in both or Saul/Ellen up a tier in both.

EDIT: Because of EXP, if Clarine is up there because of EXP (which should be a big portion of it, her durability probably being the other part) then Saul/Ellen should also move up. Clarine has lol offense anyway, Saul and Ellen have better (depending on enemy AS for Ellen, I dunno how often she DA's but its probably a decent amount). In a game where combat is favored more (compared to FE7), Clarine's shitty offense should hold more weight.

Edited February 22, 2010 by frat_tastic

[Colonel M]

Better argument.

I'd first really value Movement here. Don't even throw the "Tactics" card at me. There's no reason as to why we can't finish these chapters at a more rapid pace (being overachievers is not a problem). Yes, however, I would think it'd be her better durability win if she can get her supports (Deak and Rutgar, possibly Klein). I might agree with you on her offensive issues, but I really doubt that Saul / Ellen is ORKOing more consistently. Saul has 18 Atk with Lightning while Clarine has 15.7 Atk with Fire. Granted there's a difference (which I won't lie to), but the question pertains is this: is Saul really ORKOing more than Clarine?

If so then I guess I'll lower Clarine down, but I put her a tier above due to the horse and durability w/supports. Saul and Ellen kind of have that problem (Saul has critkill chances and Ellen is kind of sluggish).

[frat_tastic]

I'm still going to throw the Tactics card at you. Its the same as the joke ranks in FE7, its doesn't really matter here, so it doesn't really help Clarine at all.

Either way, of course Clarine's better, but not 2 tiers better like she is now.

I don't have enemy stats on hand, so I can't verify it but it probably helps Saul in killing unpromoted scrubs that Clarine still can't kill. I can't really prove it though.

[Colonel M]

I'm still going to throw the Tactics card at you. Its the same as the joke ranks in FE7, its doesn't really matter here, so it doesn't really help Clarine at all.

Either way, of course Clarine's better, but not 2 tiers better like she is now.

I don't have enemy stats on hand, so I can't verify it but it probably helps Saul in killing unpromoted scrubs that Clarine still can't kill. I can't really prove it though.

Must've forgotten to raise them. My mistake.

As far as the Tactics card, by this I mean you couldn't use it positively for Ellen and Saul. "Efficiency", by this I mean clearing the chapters in low # of turns, is still a priority. Even if it doesn't give you a 6th gold medal I don't (nor anyone else for that matter) want to waste too much time in one chapter. So saying that Clarine helping with the horse reach places faster doesn't matter is what I'm shutting down.

[frat_tastic]

But it really DOESNT matter is the thing. This isn't an efficiency list, so we are free to dick around in chapters as much as we want as long as we keep it under the turn requirement.

The only place I can really see Clarine's move being useful in the sense that it helps Tactics is that we can finish some chapters early to arena abuse other chapters for funds, EXP and power a little more. It helps, but I don't know that it's significant. Clarine's move is definitely an advantage, but for reasons other than Tactics, largely.

[Colonel M]

That's what I mean. Saving more turns to arena abuse is still a net positive, which means you get more EXP, Gold, and Power from the Arena. Yeah, you're fine to dick around in the chapters a bit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we make "Tactics is a joke" a net positive for Saul and Ellen.

Either way I'll move Clarine down and we'll figure this out later. They're probably Top Tier, but might as well go the safer route and just drop her instead.

[frat_tastic]

Tate>Shin anyone? Maybe not on Sacae, but on Ilia?

[Deliriyum]

I'd say Douglas and Barth into low tier, for the sake of making lower mid smaller. It really doesn't matter because its the same placement, but it looks better.

[Anouleth]

If you're going to talk about Lower-Mid being too big, then it would be better just to divide it into Mid and Lower-Mid.

[Junkhead]

Douglas and Barth have good reasons to be where they are...tanking, they do well on both routes, especially on Sacae where they will get doubled but barely hurt (Or not even that).

And how did Klein get higher than Roy? Klein is mostly all offense but lack an enemy phase, Roy is also more likely to double once promoted.

[Colonel M]

Unfortunately, due to the leniency of Tactics they actually get a reason to "rise". It's a matter of how much you penalize them, however, for some of their performance.

[Florete]

I'd say Douglas and Barth into low tier, for the sake of making lower mid smaller. It really doesn't matter because its the same placement, but it looks better.

Tier separations are not there for aesthetics, they are there for gaps in unit performance.

[Tangerine]

I don't think this game requires a ranked tier list. The ranks are so laughably easy (84k funds, 630 turns for Tactics...) that you're basically just ranking people that get a lot of EXP high because two ranks require a leveled up team as opposed to one from FE7.

[CATS]

The vast amount of FE6 ranked discussion that has gone on in the past disagrees with you.

Gonzales A in upper mid on Ilia? I will have to attack this at some point.

[Tangerine]

The vast amount of FE6 ranked discussion that has gone on in the past disagrees with you.

Gonzales A in upper mid on Ilia? I will have to attack this at some point.

So because people are doing it it becomes less pointless? You're posting on this forum and I absolutely assure you there is no real point to it. A ranked tier list for FE6 is an efficiency tier list + EXP rank. Except you arena abuse a lot.

[CATS]

How is it pointless? The point of tier list topics is to discuss stuff, and ranked FE6 discussion is obviously very possible to carry out as demonstrated by the fact that a large amount of it has occurred in the past. Maybe it's less interesting than discussion of a different game or different standards, but I don't see how it could be pointless.

[Florete]

How is it pointless? The point of tier list topics is to discuss stuff, and ranked FE6 discussion is obviously very possible to carry out as demonstrated by the fact that a large amount of it has occurred in the past. Maybe it's less interesting than discussion of a different game or different standards, but I don't see how it could be pointless.

But wasn't the reason for that because people didn't know the actual requirements and so had to mostly speculate and determine who seemed to help more in each one? Now that we know the requirements it's become more pointless because they're way too lenient.

[CATS]

For alot of it, yes. Discussion still occurred even after the requirements were discovered.

The only requirement that I see as clearly more lenient than those in FE7 is Tactics, and saving turns still matters since those turns can go towards Combat and/or Exp; in exchange, Combat matters in this game. So I don't see how the lenience makes discussion more pointless, nor do I really see why it would be pointless even then, just less interesting. I mean, if everyone thinks discussion is pointless and refuses to discuss anything, then I guess it actually is pointless to post in a topic like this one, but that seems silly and unjustified.

[Tangerine]

For alot of it, yes. Discussion still occurred even after the requirements were discovered.

The only requirement that I see as clearly more lenient than those in FE7 is Tactics, and saving turns still matters since those turns can go towards Combat and/or Exp; in exchange, Combat matters in this game. So I don't see how the lenience makes discussion more pointless, nor do I really see why it would be pointless even then, just less interesting. I mean, if everyone thinks discussion is pointless and refuses to discuss anything, then I guess it actually is pointless to post in a topic like this one, but that seems silly and unjustified.

You don't think the 84k funds requirement is less lenient than in FE7? The EXP rank is also clearly more lenient because of the Tactics rank. You don't need to save turns at all in FE6, you have mooooore than enough. You can just play the chapter normally and never fail the Tactics rank.

[Colonel M]

The vast amount of FE6 ranked discussion that has gone on in the past disagrees with you.

Gonzales A in upper mid on Ilia? I will have to attack this at some point.

If you mean up, I probably won't object to it. Still, feel free to make sure that everyone else is convinced statistics-wise.

[CATS]

Yeah, I'll post an actual argument later when I have time.

Mori: If your point is that discussion is pointless because S Ranking is too easy, then I still don't see it. Remember that it's not "will you be able to S Rank with this unit or with this unit?" No one individual unit is required to S Rank afaik. Rather, the criteria is to judge units based on which one's use will make it easier to S Rank, which can still be measured and debated. It's like an FE8 tier list. Sure, FE8 is a rly easy game, but that doesn't at all affect the fact that you can make a tier list for it.

[Tangerine]

Yeah, I'll post an actual argument later when I have time.

Mori: If your point is that discussion is pointless because S Ranking is too easy, then I still don't see it. Remember that it's not "will you be able to S Rank with this unit or with this unit?" No one individual unit is required to S Rank afaik. Rather, the criteria is to judge units based on which one's use will make it easier to S Rank, which can still be measured and debated. It's like an FE8 tier list. Sure, FE8 is a rly easy game, but that doesn't at all affect the fact that you can make a tier list for it.

The point is that a ranked tier list is not different enough from an efficiency tier list to warrant another topic for it. The only thing different is that you are arena abusing for EXP with all of the spare turns you have. FE7 ranked is a lot different from FE7 efficiency, not so much here.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Tangerine

[dondon151]

It's like an FE8 tier list. Sure, FE8 is a rly easy game, but that doesn't at all affect the fact that you can make a tier list for it.

In an efficiency tier list, even the smallest difference in results qualifies for a difference, while in a ranked FE6 tier list, a small difference in results (e.g. turncount) doesn't matter because the game doesn't distinguish between something like 350 turns and 380 turns to complete the game.

[CATS]

Oh, well if it just turns into nothing but bumrushing so you can arena abuse more later, then yeah, you're right. I'd once again suggest that the arena be banned from use if that's the case, just for discussion's sake.