Who's the best trueblade?

[Anouleth]

Edward has a decent shot at being the best on Normal Mode. Training him is no longer the uphill battle it is on Hard Mode and he quickly ties Zihark. Mia is also significantly weaker since Part 3 GM chapters are a hilarious joke, when you can have 6 units promoted and doubling by about 3-8.

[Junkhead]

How can you honestly say that personal experience is moot and unreliable? How pompous is that? Personal experience is the only realiable thing that helps a player get through a game. I'm so sick of hearing people say "you're opinion isn't worth anything, or your personal experience means nothing" completely holding no regard for the feelings of the person they are talking to.

That's because the most common and possible outcome is based on calculations and theories, not just your experience, they mean your experience is useless here because these sections are more oriented into debating other than opinions, you have a point, the title kind of contradicts itself.

Although you must know another reason why personal experience isn't being considered is because your results won't always mean will be the same as others', so don't take it their meaning so wrong.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Soul

[XxWolfxX]

Depends on what you mean efficient, and was it on HM?

Also, once again. PEMN when it comes to debating. You're trying to convince Lucia is a better unit than Mia AND Zihark and they're the best swordmasters you could get in RD.

LOL what? is this guy serious? when did i say lucia was the best? this entire time I think everyone failed to realise Mia was my first pick lol and interceptor was for some assanine reason arguing my second pick.

yeah and for all those people before him that still wanted to drag it on cuz they still feel they have the right to tell me im wrong or they just have nothing better to do, i have nothing to say, nor do i have a reason to apologize.

[Rewjeo]

What you just is slightly invalid to me since you obviously didn't read everything I said. Who is the best is an opinion*, not fact since, its based on percents not straight numbers not all ziharks growths > lucias, i gave a strong defense as to why Lucia was better then zihark on my playthrough. next time try actually saying something useful instead of being smartass. no offense. <-- best way i could put how I was feeling.

for sport or not its still annoying being shot down even though it was the best way for me as you clearly just stated it can change on every playthrough.

*waits patiently for nagra's speech on how im wrong* lol

You ARE wrong. Assuming you don't hack (which invalidates this whole argument as we are no longer actually talking about the same units) Zihark's growths are always the same, and Lucia's are always the same.

Growths are Zihark/Lucia

HP: 55/50

STR: 35/25

MAG: 10/20

SKL: 75/70

SPD: 70/60

LUK: 40/30

DEF: 25/15

RES: 35/50

lvl 14 Zihark compared to base Lucia?

HP: 36/38

STR: 21/18

MAG: 7/10

SKL: 30/27

SPD: 30/27

LUK: 15/19

DEF: 16/14

RES: 15/15

And he has the potential for an A support with Nolan adds 45 AVO. So, he can have 120 AVO, compared to her 73. He has 2 DEF to her 2 HP, and that means that after one hit (even ignoring his 47 AVO lead compounded by 2RN system) he will have the same HP, but still take less damage. They tie RES. Then, he does more damage per hit and doubles more (anything with 24-26 AS). He can also BEXP more right now thanks to his two highest growths being capped and his low level. That can actually put his RES in the lead, boost his STR lead more, and help his luck/HP catch up faster. Hers is a lot less helpful.

[XxWolfxX]

You ARE wrong. Assuming you don't hack (which invalidates this whole argument as we are no longer actually talking about the same units) Zihark's growths are always the same, and Lucia's are always the same.

Growths are Zihark/Lucia

HP: 55/50

STR: 35/25

MAG: 10/20

SKL: 75/70

SPD: 70/60

LUK: 40/30

DEF: 25/15

RES: 35/50

lvl 14 Zihark compared to base Lucia?

HP: 36/38

STR: 21/18

MAG: 7/10

SKL: 30/27

SPD: 30/27

LUK: 15/19

DEF: 16/14

RES: 15/15

And he has the potential for an A support with Nolan adds 45 AVO. So, he can have 120 AVO, compared to her 73. He has 2 DEF to her 2 HP, and that means that after one hit (even ignoring his 47 AVO lead compounded by 2RN system) he will have the same HP, but still take less damage. They tie RES. Then, he does more damage per hit and doubles more (anything with 24-26 AS). He can also BEXP more right now thanks to his two highest growths being capped and his low level. That can actually put his RES in the lead, boost his STR lead more, and help his luck/HP catch up faster. Hers is a lot less helpful.

lol *ignores* just another guy that completely missed what i was saying in the first place.

[Interceptor]

LOL what? is this guy serious? when did i say lucia was the best? this entire time I think everyone failed to realise Mia was my first pick lol and interceptor was for some assanine reason arguing my second pick.

It was probably an innocent mistake on his part, but it had nothing to do with the point he made (that you ignored). PEMN when it comes to debating, at least in terms of the RNG. Obviously PE means a lot when it comes to tactics or strategy, but that's a separate issue from stats.

Also, if we can argue about the best Trueblade, we can argue about the second-best one. You're arguing Lucia as second best, that necessarily means you think she's either better than Zihark or better than Mia. From your posts, you say she's better than Zihark. It's pretty straightforward to come up with a scenario where Zihark is better than her, however, and furthermore to argue that the scenario is plausible. It's been done in this thread, actually, and there's more where that came from: I could list out a bunch of reasons why Zihark deserves to be considered superior to Lucia, and back it up with examples based on fact.

yeah and for all those people before him that still wanted to drag it on cuz they still feel they have the right to tell me im wrong or they just have nothing better to do, i have nothing to say, nor do i have a reason to apologize.

We do have the right to tell you that you're wrong, I have no idea why you'd think otherwise. There are no avenging angels here that strike down people who expose gaping holes in someone else's statements.

[XxWolfxX]

really? because I don't think I said once that Lucia was better then Zihark or even attempted to argue she was, I said I pick lucia because she always ended up better for me, in timing, thus in usability, I found it more productive to level Jill in the earlier chapters when you were probably leveling Zihark, considering i don't use Nolan on my endgame team, due to having haar and jill. Ziharks "awesome" support never comes into play. So, with that being said you can call me wrong till your blue in the face, fact is just because zihark is the second best/best on your playthrough doesn't mean he is on mine. Mia has good support with a mandetory character and so does lucia, eddy kind of does but miccy is a sage so it doesn't seem practical. So if you guys still want to fuss over it go ahead, but everyone plays the game in their own way. Get it? No you probably don't.

[Rewjeo]

I understand what you're saying, but...

THE FACT THAT YOUR LUCIA ALWAYS ENDS UP BETTER THAN YOUR (UNTRAINED) ZIHARK DOES NOT MATTER. LUCIA WILL ONLY BE BETTER A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME, AND ZIHARK WILL BE BETTER A LOT OF THE TIME. SAYING OTHERWISE IS JUST WRONG.

And my main point before was that you said that Ziharks' growths wouldn't always be better than Lucia's, and they will be. Whether or not the RNG favors him every time is different.

[Rodykitty]

One's personal best is not always the best.

[XxWolfxX]

I understand what you're saying, but...

THE FACT THAT YOUR LUCIA ALWAYS ENDS UP BETTER THAN YOUR (UNTRAINED) ZIHARK DOES NOT MATTER. LUCIA WILL ONLY BE BETTER A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE TIME, AND ZIHARK WILL BE BETTER A LOT OF THE TIME. SAYING OTHERWISE IS JUST WRONG.

And my main point before was that you said that Ziharks' growths wouldn't always be better than Lucia's, and they will be. Whether or not the RNG favors him every time is different.

And my point is saying that your zihark is better then your untrained lucia is just wrong. thats kind of stating the obvious isn't it? thats the whole reason i find this whole "debate" worth nothing. oh btw not all ziharks stats are better and their caps aren't really that different.

if zihark better more of the time that just means more people use him, for whatever the reason, but that reason is a personal decision, which as you guys so adamantly suggest is worth nothing.

Edited April 23, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

And my point is saying that your zihark is better then your untrained lucia is just wrong. thats kind of stating the obvious isn't it?

But why would you want to train Lucia? She has crappy bases for her level, horrible availability, she's only useful in ONE chapter and that's 2-2. Now I know you're just trying to set an example but it's a pretty bad one.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Joey

[XxWolfxX]

But why would you want to train Lucia? She has crappy bases for her level, horrible availability, she's only useful in ONE chapter and that's 2-2. Now I know you're just trying to set an example but it's a pretty bad one.

lol if you must know the answer to that redundant question just read the novel of a "debate", but i can assure you its not worth your time.

and im just going to ignore the fact that you are calling my example a bad one. because thats just your opinion even if its shared.

Edited April 23, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Junkhead]

But why would you want to train Lucia? She has crappy bases for her level, horrible availability, she's only useful in ONE chapter and that's 2-2. Now I know you're just trying to set an example but it's a pretty bad one.

Her bases are pretty good for her level, it's her avaibility and Str/Def growths who are suffering

[XxWolfxX]

Her bases are pretty good for her level, it's her avaibility and Str/Def growths who are suffering

Note: training her with elicia her 4-3 nullifies the lack of availibility. and her str/def are as good as you want them.

Also Note: neither are the reason i chose her over zihark/eddy for slot 2. just saying.

Edited April 23, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[Junkhead]

It actually doesn't, she's facing stronger enemies, she even has trouble against them, Elincia is at least getting helped by Amiti, a good way to train her is by giving Lucia Paragon.

But characters that aren't necesary aren't exactly called "good", she's just a beautiful filler character, nothing Mia or Zihark don't do better, she's still lacking greatly at the Str/Def department with 25/15% growths- Even Stefan does much better.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

Her bases are pretty good for her level, it's her avaibility and Str/Def growths who are suffering

Compared to Zihark/Mia, who can reasonably reach her level. They're not that great.

[XxWolfxX]

Look, guys i'm not going to through this with you guys to, if you all my reasons for picking mia and lucia over the other 3 read the past posts, my reasons are legitimate. The fact that you guys can't just move back on track instead of everyone just arguing with me, is just getting sad and pathetic.

you guys are like friggin jehovas witnesses trying to force beliefs on me.

[Interceptor]

really? because I don't think I said once that Lucia was better then Zihark or even attempted to argue she was, I said I pick lucia because she always ended up better for me, in timing, thus in usability, I found it more productive to level Jill in the earlier chapters when you were probably leveling Zihark, considering i don't use Nolan on my endgame team, due to having haar and jill. Ziharks "awesome" support never comes into play.

You said that Lucia was the most "practical" second Trueblade, which suggests some pretty concrete things. You aren't defending your viewpoint with anything but your personal experience, which is very easily refuted by nothing more than a casual look at Lucia's bases, growths, and leveling circumstances.

Training Jill is not mutually exclusive with training Zihark. You can realistically train two Dawn Brigade units to Endgame-worthiness in Hard Mode (more in Normal mode), and if you want evidence of that you can just click on the Radiant Dawn playlog link in my sig. In fact, JillxZihark is a fairly capable team, once you get past Zihark's Part 3 issues.

So, with that being said you can call me wrong till your blue in the face

Believe it or not, I don't actually need your permission to do that.

[...] fact is just because zihark is the second best/best on your playthrough doesn't mean he is on mine. Mia has good support with a mandetory character and so does lucia, eddy kind of does but miccy is a sage so it doesn't seem practical. So if you guys still want to fuss over it go ahead, but everyone plays the game in their own way. Get it? No you probably don't.

I'm not making judgments about your playthrough, I'm making judgments about characters, as are most people in this thread. It's nice that you got three consecutive abused/super-blessed Lucias, but your experience was an outlier, and could have also gone the other way. Like I said, it's trivial to prove this.

if zihark better more of the time that just means more people use him, for whatever the reason, but that reason is a personal decision, which as you guys so adamantly suggest is worth nothing.

Personal decisions are not worth nothing, personal experience means nothing. Decisions refer to things like tactics and strategy, where PE obviously is important. PEMN refers to the RNG. If I get a SPD-screwed Ike, it doesn't mean that Ike sucks at doubling, it means that I had a SPD-screwed Ike.

Note: training her with elicia her 4-3 nullifies the lack of availibility. and her str/def are as good as you want them.

Training Lucia doesn't "nullify" her lack of availibility. She's around less than any other Swordmaster other than Stefan. That's a fact, and you can't change it by babying her in Part 4.

Look, guys i'm not going to through this with you guys to, if you all my reasons for picking mia and lucia over the other 3 read the past posts, my reasons are legitimate. The fact that you guys can't just move back on track instead of everyone just arguing with me, is just getting sad and pathetic.

Arguing about the best Trueblade is the entire point of this thread. Challenging your viewpoints on the matter couldn't be more on topic. What else are we supposed to talk about, exactly?

If you can't be arsed to defend your viewpoints, that's fine, but it'd be nice if you dropped the martyr routine. You're not being persecuted, or repressed, or force-fed another belief system. You're throwing out your opinion and seeing it get shot full of holes. It happens all the time, better get used to it.

[Florete]

Look, guys i'm not going to through this with you guys to, if you all my reasons for picking mia and lucia over the other 3 read the past posts, my reasons are legitimate. The fact that you guys can't just move back on track instead of everyone just arguing with me, is just getting sad and pathetic.

you guys are like friggin jehovas witnesses trying to force beliefs on me.

Look, I realize you're a relatively new member here, but you're also (apparently) 23 years old. This is basic stuff. You said Lucia is the 2nd best Trueblade ("for you"), people explained why you're wrong, with logical reasoning. You keep going on about how it's "just your opinion," but if my opinion is that Ike's hair is green and not blue, does that mean no can tell me I'm wrong just because "it's my opinion!"? No, of course not. Some things in this world can be proven objectively. This is one of them. Assuming fair and equal use of every Trueblade (since that is the only way you can compare them. You can't call one better on the notion you used that one and not the other), there's no way Lucia comes out as #2. She's most likely to end up as #4 or 5.

Your reasons are not legitimate. If this was a "Who do you like best?" thread they would be perfectly fine and we would not be having this conversation, but as it stands your points are open to be argued and people will argue them because your points are not correct. Personal experience and bias don't come into play here. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.

[Narga_Rocks]

Look, guys i'm not going to through this with you guys to, if you all my reasons for picking mia and lucia over the other 3 read the past posts, my reasons are legitimate. The fact that you guys can't just move back on track instead of everyone just arguing with me, is just getting sad and pathetic.

you guys are like friggin jehovas witnesses trying to force beliefs on me.

Yeah, how dare we try to explain to you why the moon isn't a ball of cheese or let you know that jumping off really tall buildings tends to lead to death. You have the right to think whatever incorrect thing you want. If you want to believe that 1+1 = 3 then your teacher has no right to put a big ol' "X" on your test and give you a 0. How dare she stand up for what is right? Wow, she is such a Jehovas' witness for saying you are wrong.

Also, I already explained this part to you:

The fact that you guys can't just move back on track instead of everyone just arguing with me, is just getting sad and pathetic.

The fact that you can't understand that all this "arguing" is the point here and thus we are on "track" is just getting sad and pathetic. Did you not notice before you started posting in this topic that it was what we had been doing since post 24, maybe earlier? That's what we do. Even if you don't like it, at least make complaints that make sense.

Edited April 23, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[XxWolfxX]

blah blah, you guys are still at it eh? Well guess what you guys are still apparently completely clueless as to what my point is I see.

Your pitiful examples like "the moon is made of cheese" are rediculous.

OKAY, I will put as simple as I can cuz you guys can't to get past your egos to grasp something this simple. yes if you want to take that offensively go right ahead.

Debating this topic is completely, and utterly senseless, regardless of how right you may think you are, or wrong you think I am, neither are going to be true. The game has like 50+ characters and gives you the option of who to use, with no given best. If you prefer Zihark use him.

I mean mean fuck I think some who gets Meg to Sword Marshall and powns face deserves a medal, but you would laugh at them and say something degrading like why would do that gatrie is way better. And thats pure bullshit, and it just makes you guys like egotistical dickheads, who can't just let people enjoy posting their experience on a forum. You guys have to fucking debate everything.

Edited April 23, 2010 by XxWolfxX

[peener weener]

blah blah, you guys are still at it eh? Well guess what you guys are still apparently completely clueless as to what my point is I see.

Your pitiful examples like "the moon is made of cheese" are rediculous.

OKAY, I will put as simple as I can cuz you guys can't to get past your egos to grasp something this simple. yes if you want to take that offensively go right ahead.

Debating this topic is completely, and utterly senseless, regardless of how right you may think you are, or wrong you think I am, neither are going to be true. The game has like 50+ characters and gives you the option of who to use, with no given best. If you prefer Zihark use him.

I mean mean fuck I think some who gets Meg to Sword Marshall and powns face deserves a medal, but you would laugh at them and say something degrading like why would do that gatrie is way better. And thats pure bullshit, and it just makes you guys like egotistical dickheads, who can't just let people enjoy posting their experience on a forum. You guys have to fucking debate everything.

... You still don't get it, do you?

Oh GOD you are getting on my nerves. They disproved your argument point by point and you're still going at it!

Also, the cheese moon example is not "rediculous" at all! It's practically what you are doing right now.

You: Lucia is best, your argument is invalid because I am teh pwnz0rs.

Them: Um, no, she actually has pretty crappy growth--

You: SHUT UP LOL DON'T GET WORKED UP OVER A GAME LOL MY OPINION IS TEH RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE TEH WRONGZ AN MY LUCIA ONCE CAPPED SOMETHING SO SHE IS BEST AN YOUR ARGUMENT, EVEN IF IT IS ACTUALLY TRUE, IS STILL INVALID LOL.

Edited April 23, 2010 by The Eye of the Tigrex

[Florete]

blah blah, you guys are still at it eh? Well guess what you guys are still apparently completely clueless as to what my point is I see.

Your pitiful examples like "the moon is made of cheese" are rediculous.

OKAY, I will put as simple as I can cuz you guys can't to get past your egos to grasp something this simple. yes if you want to take that offensively go right ahead.

Debating this topic is completely, and utterly senseless, regardless of how right you may think you are, or wrong you think I am, neither are going to be true. The game has like 50+ characters and gives you the option of who to use, with no given best. If you prefer Zihark use him.

I mean mean fuck I think some who gets Meg to Sword Marshall and powns face deserves a medal, but you would laugh at them and say something degrading like why would do that gatrie is way better. And thats pure bullshit, and it just makes you guys like egotistical dickheads, who can't just let people enjoy posting their experience on a forum. You guys have to fucking debate everything.

Obviously you're the one that's right and everyone else is wrong. I bow to your superiority.

[Parrhesia]

blah blah, you guys are still at it eh? Well guess what you guys are still apparently completely clueless as to what my point is I see.

Your pitiful examples like "the moon is made of cheese" are rediculous.

OKAY, I will put as simple as I can cuz you guys can't to get past your egos to grasp something this simple. yes if you want to take that offensively go right ahead.

Debating this topic is completely, and utterly senseless, regardless of how right you may think you are, or wrong you think I am, neither are going to be true. The game has like 50+ characters and gives you the option of who to use, with no given best. If you prefer Zihark use him.

I mean mean fuck I think some who gets Meg to Sword Marshall and powns face deserves a medal, but you would laugh at them and say something degrading like why would do that gatrie is way better. And thats pure bullshit, and it just makes you guys like egotistical dickheads, who can't just let people enjoy posting their experience on a forum. You guys have to fucking debate everything.

I love you too.

[XxWolfxX]

i think furetchan is the only one that was worth reading lol