FE Pairings

[Just call me AL]

TBCH, I actually stopped caring about Ike X Elincia as soon as I beat FE10. Although that is not to say I'm a Geoffrey X Elincia fan myself.

[_____]

I only think they're stubborn if they continue to go on about bullcrap like "Oh, they gotz married, soz they must be in love!" and such, to be honest, because obviously things like that are false.

Cynthia's right when she says that FE isn't subtle, especially in the later games. If someone gets married in them, unless the contrary is explicitly stated, it pretty much means they love each other in FE.

[Narga_Rocks]

TBCH, I actually stopped caring about Ike X Elincia as soon as I beat FE10. Although that is not to say I'm a Geoffrey X Elincia fan myself.

Fan of neither works. Ike is either pretty reserved about those types of emotions or doesn't feel them at all, so neither of the pairings really come off as strongly as, say, Eliwood x Ninian or something.

[Anacybele]

Well then, perhaps this is a good time for something new to pop out of IS's arsenal. And overturning a canon pairing for another pairing (in this case, GeoffreyxElincia for IkexElincia), would certainly be quite new and different.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't mind people debating about pairings they think are more reasonable. What I DO mind is them trying to shoot down other people's theories and say they're a pile of poop when the people who made them could have put a lot of effort into them, regardless of the topic.

I wouldn't call your theories piles of crap if they didn't happen to be made of crap. You either didn't actually put a lot of effort into them or your logical reasoning skills are poor. Marrying Ike and making a child still continues the bloodline honey, unless Ike is sterile (which he might be due to the roids, but that's not canon either).

@Narga What you're talking about is whether the ending itself made sense, not whether Elincia actually likes someone better. Personal opinion here, if IkexElincia was actually a paired ending I wouldn't really have a problem with it (they don't interact much in RD, but neither do Mak and Astrid), assuming Ike stayed in Crimea, not Elincia leaving (her abandoning the throne would be OOC). However, since it didn't happen, all the previous hints should really be interpreted as a non-romantic relationship (or Elincia just having a crush on Ike pre-RD) and the GeoffreyxElincia hints should be interpreted as romantic. The setup for IkexElincia beforehand definitely was not so explicit that it had to be a romantic pairing.

While it's true that not everyone married for love, there are no hints whatsoever that Elincia was forced into marriage for political reasons. If there were politics involved, IS would tell us.

Edited June 27, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[_____]

That really doesn't change the fact that GeoffreyxElincia is pretty absolute as of now.

[Anacybele]

I wouldn't call your theories piles of crap if they didn't happen to be made of crap. You either didn't actually put a lot of effort into them or your logical reasoning skills are poor. Marrying Ike and making a child still continues the bloodline honey, unless Ike is sterile (which he might be due to the roids, but that's not canon either).

Where does it say Ike takes steroids, first of all? Second, don't call me "honey." Third, of course marrying Ike and having a child with him would continue the damn bloodline. But since he leaves, that can't happen right away, can it? So that leaves only Geoffrey.

And my theories are NOT made of crap. I put a lot of effort into them and since I recently took two classes in college that dealt with critical and logical thinking at some point, I highly doubt my skills are that poor. You have no right to insult me like this.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

I don't mind people debating about pairings they think are more reasonable. What I DO mind is them trying to shoot down other people's theories and say they're a pile of poop when the people who made them could have put a lot of effort into them, regardless of the topic.

It doesn't seem like it, you started getting extremely defensive on Cynthia as soon as she mentioned Ike having no lovers, but lots of friends. And nobody is trying to shoot down your theories, it's just that they're being countered pretty well and being argued with logic while you're arguing with complete bias and fangirlism. Like I said, even SorenxIke has much more evidence than IkexElincia.

so negative. support the girl!

May be negative but it perfectly describes a site like that. It's like if I started mentioning other Ike or Elincia pairings in a jokingly way I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up getting warned at the very least.

[-Cynthia-]

Where does it say Ike takes steroids, first of all?

I said "but that's not canon either" Reading comprehension!

Third, of course marrying Ike and having a child with him would continue the damn bloodline. But since he leaves, that can't happen right away, can it? So that leaves only Geoffrey.

Except that he leaves for exploration purposes...and is never heard from again, while Elincia has a golden age of rule in Crimea. Pretty much leaving Geoffrey forever, which is the whole point.

And my theories are NOT made of crap. I put a lot of effort into them and since I recently took two classes in college that dealt with critical and logical thinking at some point, I highly doubt my skills are that poor. You have no right to insult me like this.

You originally said I treat your theories like piles of poop, I told you why.

[Anacybele]

And you still have no right to treat my theories that way. It hurts me and offends me greatly.

[Narga_Rocks]

Cynthia's right when she says that FE isn't subtle, especially in the later games. If someone gets married in them, unless the contrary is explicitly stated, it pretty much means they love each other in FE.

If you are accepting that IS is absolutely terrible at showing love sometimes (though they used to be much better at it, eg fe6 and fe7) then that's fine. If all you need is an ending to show it then you aren't asking for much and are thus making it easy for IS to phone it in, but whatever.

@Narga What you're talking about is whether the ending itself made sense, not whether Elincia actually likes someone better. Personal opinion here, if IkexElincia was actually a paired ending I wouldn't really have a problem with it (they don't interact much in RD, but neither do Mak and Astrid), assuming Ike stayed in Crimea, not Elincia leaving (her abandoning the throne would be OOC). However, since it didn't happen, all the previous hints should really be interpreted as a non-romantic relationship (or Elincia just having a crush on Ike pre-RD) and the GeoffreyxElincia hints should be interpreted as romantic. The setup for IkexElincia beforehand definitely was not so explicit that it had to be a romantic pairing.

The bold is unsupported by much of anything. I'll admit that Occam's Razor perhaps leads to those conclusions, but that's not really a conclusion based on facts. It's more trying to make things as simple as possible.

While it's true that not everyone married for love, there are no hints whatsoever that Elincia was forced into marriage for political reasons. If there were politics involved, IS would tell us.

There are also no hints about much of anything in terms of Elincia loving Geoffrey. Basically, there are two explanations that are equally justified based on what came before it. You fall in line and like the conclusion she loves him. I've decided not to.

May be negative but it perfectly describes a site like that. It's like if I started mentioning other Ike or Elincia pairings in a jokingly way I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up getting warned at the very least.

I don't think sirius would allow that. Besides, we try not to be biased (though I joke about warning people, sometimes ;) ).

Besides, my second favourite Ike ending (though not romantic) would be Ike x Mia. More like a platonic butt-kicking couple that goes around pwning things, though. Obviously she needs to run after him, and that doesn't happen in the story (she traveled the continent and sometimes rested with the other Greil Mercs, so obviously she couldn't since she never left the continent). I admit that this one is actually ridiculous because of endings, while talking about Elincia's preferences I believe are not.

If I can enjoy my Ike x Mia ending, then I think you could suggest that Ike tracks down Naesala, kills him, then kidnaps Leanne, all on the way off the continent, and drags her with him to wherever he ends up. I'm not going to warn you no matter how ridiulous a paring you make for either of them. It could be sothe getting a harem that includes Elincia and I wouldn't warn you.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[_____]

If you are accepting that IS is absolutely terrible at showing love sometimes (though they used to be much better at it, eg fe6 and fe7) then that's fine. If all you need is an ending to show it then you aren't asking for much and are thus making it easy for IS to phone it in, but whatever.

So, accepting something that's outright stated means that I'm an enabler?

cool story bro

[Narga_Rocks]

So, accepting something that's outright stated means that I'm an enabler?

cool story bro

It's stated they marry each other. That's it. Where does it "outright" state that they love each other? Oh, right, NOWHERE.

Yeah, you are an enabler because you don't want more from them. You accept that marriage = love and thus force them to put no effort into proving the love at all.

and "cool story bro" pisses me off. If I can get away with it, I might try to get Jyo to add a rule against it.

[-Cynthia-]

IS does have an awkward way of leading into the endings from time to time. Take the last few lines of Sethx Eirika A.

Eirika: Seth...

Seth: Please forgive me. I swear to you that I will never again forget my duty in that way. Now, please excuse me. When I see you next, it will be as a Knight of Renais... And I will lay down my life to protect my queen.

Eirika: Seth...

Seth is basically saying that they can't be together. Except that their ending states that they return to Renais and are wed. Most people take the ending as canon though, and decide Seth just changed his mind.

Elincia and Geoffrey is even easier because they never have this duty/love issue, they just don't explictly say they love each other.

Basically, endings overrule anything else in most cases.

Can you really think of any political reasons Elincia has to marry Geoffrey? I can't. Their relationship is actually seen as a little scandalous I think.

And you, General Geoffrey. Does your loyalty to Her Majesty stem only from your unchecked emotions? Those with a taste for gossip are talking. I wonder, have you heard what the help is saying about you?

If people are gossiping about it, probably not the safest political move.

Edited June 27, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[_____]

It's stated they marry each other. That's it. Where does it "outright" state that they love each other? Oh, right, NOWHERE.

Marriage pretty much means love in FE unless you're Nyna. The writers have almost never tried to change this, so why should we believe that it's different now?

Yeah, you are an enabler because you don't want more from them. You accept that marriage = love and thus force them to put no effort into proving the love at all.

We should protest against IS for having shitty writing! Everything will change then! They'll obviously listen and I obviously care deeply as to whether my FE games are oozing with subtlety!

[Narga_Rocks]

I actually think IS are a bunch of idiots who can't make a consistent story. If they were trying to show that Elincia likes Geoffrey more than Ike, they did a terrible job of it. It's like they wrote all the way to endgame, realized they'd originally planned to show Geoffrey x Elincia, said "Oh crap" and wrote an ending for them and expected us to accept it. I say no! I can think for myself and realize that they didn't show it. You are a sheep, though, and are happily walking with it because you like Geoffrey and Elincia so much you refuse to look beyond the endings. We've been over this.

Marriage pretty much means love in FE unless you're Nyna. The writers have almost never tried to change this, so why should we believe that it's different now?

You know, somehow I don't think you are reading very attentively. Oh well. I'm not exactly surprised, to be honest.

We should protest against IS for having shitty writing! Everything will change then! They'll obviously listen and I obviously care deeply as to whether my FE games are oozing with subtlety!

Meh. I'd be too lazy to go and protest and it wouldn't do much anyway. But I'd rather state my displeasure than roll over and accept it, even if it will never accomplish anything. It's the principle ofthe thing.

[-Cynthia-]

It makes more sense for Elincia to marry Geoffrey out of love though. I think you can at least agree that Elincia cares for Geoffrey as a starting point.

There's no evidence given that the Crimean nobles would disapprove of Ike marrying Elincia. Nothing about them even having any sort of power to stop it. Nothing about Ike or Elincia caring. Nothing that says that Ike would leave the country of his beloved even in the case that they couldn't get married. Any sort of 'political reasons' is pure speculation.

As for showing it over the course of the game, I personally wasn't surprised. It had about as much setup as LeannexNaesala, not the neon sign that is SothexMicaiah, but saying that it came out of nowhere seems that you're ignoring a lot of stuff.

Edited June 27, 2010 by -Cynthia-

[_____]

You know, somehow I don't think you are reading very attentively. Oh well.

What reason do you have to believe that? Really. I mean, Elincia and Ike like each other. Geoffrey and Elincia like each other. The writers chose Geoffrey to marry her. Common sense says "Hey, maybe because the writers made it this way, it was meant to be like that!", but even though this has been pointed out, you continue to proclaim that your technically crack pairing is true and that Geoffrey and Elincia are only marrying for political purposes and blah blah blah whine whine whine.

I'm not exactly surprised, to be honest.

cool story bro

Meh. I'd be too lazy to go and protest and it wouldn't do much anyway. But I'd rather state my displeasure than roll over and accept it, even if it will never accomplish anything. It's the principle ofthe thing.

Accepting the reality of what they've written doesn't mean that I like the FE writing and think we should have more bluntness.

[Narga_Rocks]

It makes more sense for Elincia to marry Geoffrey put of love though. I think you can at least agree that Elincia cares for Geoffrey as a starting point.

There's no evidence given that the Crimean nobles would disapprove of Ike marrying Elincia. Nothing about them even having any sort of power to stop it. Nothing about Ike or Elincia caring. Nothing that says that Ike would leave the country of his beloved even in the case that they couldn't get married. Any sort of 'political reasons' is pure speculation.

Hey, aside from the writers stubbornly refusing to give Ike a happier ending, I can't actually come up with any reasons they didn't do it aside from being Geoffrey x Elincia shippers. Maybe Geoffrey is some author avatar and the writer likes Elincia. It doesn't matter why, really. The reason I back Ike x Elincia is because of everything leading up to the ending. I just come to the conclusion that the writers had a different goal in mind than what they wrote along the way. I'm okay with that conclusion. It's EB that is giving the writers some actual credit and trying to come up with how what they wrote for the first 96% of the two games can flow into the RD endings. I like my conclusion that they are stupid, personally.

As for showing it over the course of the game, I personally wasn't surprised. It had about as much setup as LeannexNaesala, not the neon sign that is SothexMicaiah, but saying that it came out of nowhere seems that you're ignoring a lot of stuff.

In the last 17 posts, there are two uses of the word "nowhere" (according to ctrl + f). One was me saying they never explicitly state Elincia loves Geoffrey. The second was yours. I wouldn't say "out of nowhere". I'm saying "more evidence her heart leans elsewhere".

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

And you still have no right to treat my theories that way. It hurts me and offends me greatly.

This is pretty much debating. In debates you should never consider your or the opponent's feelings. When you use so much personal bias in your arguments of course it's going to bite you in the ass later on. You need to learn to accept that there will be people out there that will disagree with your theories. Nobody ever agrees with everybody.

[Narga_Rocks]

This is pretty much debating. In debates you should never consider your or the opponent's feelings. When you use so much personal bias in your arguments of course it's going to bite you in the ass later on. You need to learn to accept that there will be people out there that will disagree with your theories. Nobody ever agrees with everybody.

Disagreement is different than what happens in this topic. I debate in tier lists. A lot. I've seen a lot there (and been a "victim" of having various theories or arguments ripped apart). I've also dealt with reports by XxWolfxX. Let me tell you, nearly any time anyone disagrees with what he said he accused them of trolling or whatever and sometimes reported it. We didn't warn the so-called "offenders".

This is different.

@Ninji: there is more stuff during the game (up until the ending) that indicates she likes Ike. If I had to give each a rating from one to ten, I'd probably call her feelings for Ike around an 8 and Geoffrey a max of 6. When they choose the 6, common sense doesn't say "um, yeah, that 6 is actually a 9". It says, "okay, so the writers don't have a clue what they are doing".

Anyway, do you have reading comprehension problems or do you just enjoy strawmanning? The whole point of that post (which you ignored) was to indicate that you were accusing me of saying something I wasn't saying. The reason I said I'm not surprised is because you do it almost every time you step into a tier list topic. I notice a lack of (intelligent/competent) defence on your part, so I'll assume that you accept the verdict (guilty).

"The writers have almost never tried to change this, so why should we believe that it's different now?"

In case it still isn't obvious, I NEVER ASKED YOU TO BELIEVE THAT IT'S DIFFERENT NOW.

And "accepting the reality" doesn't stop you from complaining about it. I told you, I accept that the writers suck. Accepting reality and what you are doing here in this topic are not one and the same.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

This is different.

How is this any different? It's very similar to the xXWolfXx issue, dude.

[Narga_Rocks]

How is this any different? It's very similar to the xXWolfXx issue, dude.

It's not warnable, but it's more mean-spirited than any of that wolf stuff. Tier list debates get heated, but in some ways they aren't quite as vicious, either.

[BEST TRYNDAMERE PLAYER]

It's not warnable, but it's more mean-spirited than any of that wolf stuff. Tier list debates get heated, but in some ways they aren't quite as vicious, either.

I wouldn't call it mean-spirited. It's just that EB doesn't know how to handle a debate properly. It's cool that she likes IkexElincia and all but really, when she attacks people for thinking otherwise it's like, "really?". Besides, FE's scripts were generally poorly written. Even to this day FE4 is still the only game that has anything resembling a proper story-line. Although FE5 comes close too. She pretty much bought this upon herself with the way she's been acting.

[_____]

I find it funny how you complain how I have no reading comprehension and then completely miss the point of my responses. Oh well.

This is hopeless. You're just misrepresenting and ignoring facts to support your case, so there's no reason to even point out when you do it anymore, and it's quite obvious that your personal bias is making you act like a child towards anyone who disagrees with you (and especially me, but that's for entirely different reasons), throwing in petty insults and ALLCAPSING. So, yeah, this thread is kind of pointless now.