So, what's all this bullshit about Hikarusa not being able to post?

[General Spoon]

I certainly wouldn't find myself objecting.

[Snike]

I wish there was a raise hand smiley right now. =\

Mods, make it happen, and you might win the community over yet.

[AstraLunaSol]

Mods, make it happen, and you might win the community over yet.

Someone make oooonne

[Parrhesia]

Context suggests that there is a cause for me being close to snapping.

I saw the context, and share your pain.

I propose that you get a tier to yourself labeled the Dumbass Tier seeing as you sure deserve it now. Who's with me?

Aye.

[Liz]

i guess if you don't suck mod cock, then you're open to a ban

fo shizzle!

[Crysta]

As a moderator of another forum, I generally know how this goes.

1) Popular but problematic member gets banned for stupid reason -- mind you, a stupid reason because he decided to do be a cheeky bastard or something and didn't think he'd actually get in trouble this time

2) Supporters NERDRAEG

3) Moderators defend their decision in several raeg topics... along with every other decision they've made ever, because they usually become relevant (can't have biased mods!)

4) Nothing really changes, because it's fucking stupid

I liked Hika, but I can sympathize with the mods. I've went out of my way to tell members "hey don't do this again or I'll have to ban you and I don't wanna" and because THEY'RE JUST SO FUNNAY they go ahead and do it anyway. These mods probably didn't go that far, but I don't think they're even obligated to.

So I advise the staff not to sweat it. In fact, you should probably get used to it.

[Aleph]

As much as I slaver over your oversized penis, I am not that much of a stalker that I speak entirely in phrases I have stolen from you.

Nah man, not the phrasing. The subject matter!

He always came off as a sort-of troll to me

Apparently I come off as a sort-of troll to a lot of people myself and don't actually have any intention of doing so most if not all of the time.

Also, I really liked Hika's last name change (was it the most recent?) because I wanted to see if he made his point or not. It sounds like he was warned for it for the wrong reasons and on top of that if that was "the last straw", that's...ridiculous.

As a moderator of another forum, I generally know how this goes.

I've been on the opposite end of the spectrum myself (I'm also biased because I haven't had to, in any of the moderating positions I've had, completely stomp out a recurring problem-member (unless you count Brom, but that was mild)). After seeing Revan's posts and the proxy messages of Hika I have to wonder if this isn't a similar scenario.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Xeld

[Malexis]

...I have no opinion on this silly thread. However, Matt (remember him?) did ask me to post this message. ...Please read it, Josh.

Here goes...

Hey. I know, my input hardly matters anymore but I just feel that it should at least be known... maybe I'll help put an end to this?

To start off, let me say this: Josh. I know we had our problems...a lot of them. I'd like to take a moment and apologize to you, because I realize now that I was wrong. I ask that you read the following and take it like you would from anyone else (disregarding it, most likely, but that's fine too.) Also, if possible, at least some kind of response would be enormously appreciated!

My opinion is this: neither of you are right. First of all, Hika is by no means a troll. A "troll" is not an acceptable synonym for an annoying person, okay? A troll is someone who intentionally acts like an idiot in order to provoke inflammatory responses. (Great examples would be Luxord, Destiny Hero, and Jarly). Did Hika do this? Ehh...to...some extent. Not nearly as much as your claims suggest.

Second of all, Hika is not, necessarily, a great member. Hell, even I've had problems tolerating the guy before. He's blunt, he's cruel, he's rude. But, he's who he is. He's honorable in that he doesn't hide his feelings whatsoever: This is not a trait that should be discouraged.

Thirdly, it's unfair for you to ban, or even warn, a member for "offending" people. It's going to happen--inevitably, something one says or does, will, without fail, offend another.

And, as mentioned before, Hikarusa was warned for this while numerous other members were not, even in similar times as he was warned!

Last of all, as mentioned countless times in this thread, Hika is a senior member of Serenes Forest. Oh! That term you hate. Sorry about that, but it's the best way to describe him. What member number is he again? I forget. Either way, he has been around since 2008, and has accumulated 14 warns in that time.

I was only around for about a year and got at least 11. Why was I banned? TLS used my account. ...Seriously? It's unfair. Sorry, but it is.

EDIT: Teehee, I can't believe I typoed silly as sully...

Edited June 1, 2010 by 'Lexis

[Aleph]

Also, is Hika really unable to post but not in the "Banned" group? Because that is the most cowardly shit.

I agree that senior members who contribute to a forum should have their contributions considered and some members appear to agree that they haven't. They could easily be exaggerating and I'm probably the last person to determine whether they are correctly, but a thread like this from my pal Revan worries me.

[Nightmare]

He was moved into banned after this thread was made.

[Aleph]

That's better I guess, but still silly in the first place. I remember a single negligible infraction followed by staff-introduced baiting resulted in a similar case for myself that was never rectified as such. I'd call you an idiot if you said I didn't have a right to be biased in Revan and Hika's favor as I eye this case from the sidelines after that.

Did I mention that I done less than 1/13th what Hika had?

Edited June 1, 2010 by Xeld

[Nightmare]

It was because some mod suspended him at first and Jyo wasn't around to actually ban him.

[Aleph]

That's pretty relieving. But doesn't that mean that a mod decided to suspend him without him reaching the warn limit? And it sounds like the thing he was warned for occurred a while after he actually did it? I'd ask Revan all this crap but he's hiding somewhere.

[Malexis]

Yeah, that's about it. He also had numerous warns in the past, as well as a few suspensions, which definitely earned him a long suspension, though maybe not this. That's the current argument. (I still have no opinion)

[Dr. Tarrasque]

That's pretty relieving. But doesn't that mean that a mod decided to suspend him without him reaching the warn limit? And it sounds like the thing he was warned for occurred a while after he actually did it? I'd ask Revan all this crap but he's hiding somewhere.

Hika reached 40% warn, due for a short suspension. As Shuuda said, he recommended the ban, there was no objection so the mod who banned him was in the right to do so. As already said, one does not have to reach 100% warn to get banned. All that was left was for the ban to be finalized by placing him in the exiled group which only admins can do and it happened as Nightmare said.

@Bold: Again, this was under discussion at the time and nothing happened until it did to avoid acting hasty in this situation.

Hika contacted me through IM through Nightmare and Ninji, he said what he wanted say, I posted the chatlog on the staff board and the final decision is what you see today.

[Esau of Isaac]

...I have no opinion on this silly thread. However, Matt (remember him?) did ask me to post this message. ...Please read it, Josh.

Here goes...

EDIT: Teehee, I can't believe I typoed silly as sully...

Hahaha, it's like every banned member needs a say.

Golden.

[Crysta]

As far as I see it, his name was a tongue-in-cheek dig at the staff more than white people. For whatever reason. This is okay in itself, but he unwisely made it about white people, the staff has to take into account that some white person may actually get offended if they want to remain consistent and not "it's okay to insult white people but not x people".

I dislike Islamic extremists. If I called myself "Islam sucks", I think I would have been similarly warned at the very least in most forum communities. If you don't expect that, you're either new to forum surfing or just genuinely oblivious.

And I sure as hell would be trying to be offensive, too. So yes, it's technically a troll.

I doubt I'd be banned unless I continued... since I've had no history of controversial name changes. Hika does, apparently, so that more likely played a part. And it should have. Prior arrests are taken into account with some prison sentences, yes? Because normally punishments are meant to be a deterrent, and repeated offenses imply that so far it isn't working.

It didn't help that the staff probably didn't like him, either. Ultimately, though, that's irrelevant because the outcome should have been the same even if it was determined by a bunch of strangers only familiar with the forum rules, with no shady records or past experiences with Hika.

All the "yeah but they did this with x and didn't do anything" doesn't really matter. It may show inconsistency on behalf of the current staff that should be addressed to prevent it from persisting, but what someone else did should carry no weight in determining if this decision was justified or not.

It's a dumb way to go (if it had been me I would have gone out saying something truly insulting), but it was ultimately his choice.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

As far as I see it, his name was a tongue-in-cheek dig at the staff more than white people. For whatever reason. This is okay in itself, but he unwisely made it about white people, the staff has to take into account that some white person may actually get offended if they want to remain consistent and not "it's okay to insult white people but not x people".

There was a report against the name change too.

I doubt I'd be banned unless I continued... since I've had no history of controversial name changes. Hika does, apparently, so that more likely played a part. And it should have. Prior arrests are taken into account with some prison sentences, yes? Because normally punishments are meant to be a deterrent, and repeated offenses imply that so far it isn't working.

That and although Hika apparently found some of the warns he was given wrong, it doesn't seem like he ever argued against them till now and that recent topic he made suggests he was just gambling with the rules and didn't care till he got banned.

It didn't help that the staff probably didn't like him, either. Ultimately, though, that's irrelevant because the outcome should have been the same even if it was determined by a bunch of strangers only familiar with the forum rules, with no shady records or past experiences with Hika.

I'd say it's closer to indifference than dislike.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Speedwagon

[Crysta]

I'll admit that I didn't read every page in this topic.

[Nightmare]

Incoming Hika response:

(Speedwagon)"There was a report against the name change too."

Key word right here. I shouldn't need to explain. But I will later anyways

(Speedwagon)"That and although Hika apparently found some of the warns he was given wrong, it doesn't seem like he ever argued against them till now"

I didn't realize until now (except, you know, the drama whore warn/suspension, but I didn't think that it would become so goddamn important and I didn't feel like going out of the way to tell the staff that that was a dumb warn when it's pretty obvious)

(Crysta)"This is okay in itself, but he unwisely made it about white people, the staff has to take into account that some white person may actually get offended if they want to remain consistent and not "it's okay to insult white people but not x people"."

(Speedwagon)"and that recent topic he made suggests he was just gambling with the rules and didn't care till he got banned."

Heh. "When I don't get suspended for this name change I will be able to get through 'Black people suck' and 'Yellow people suck' unscathed. You can not stop me now mods. You can not stop me now >8[" right? I'll deal with these at the same time. You see, when a single person or two finds something offensive, it isn't very goddamn offensive. The point WAS just to fuck around with the staff a bit (not getting as close to breaking the rules as possible BY THE WAY GUYS), but really now? There was a single report. A single goddamn report. You see, using logic I figured out that hey, white people normally don't care all that much hurr, especially if it's a white person saying it jokingly durr, no one will be offended by this. And indeed, only like Crash or someone was offended enough to go out of their way to report me. The point of including what Crysta said? YOU SEE CRYSTA. YOU CAN NOT WARN OR SUSPEND SOMEONE FOR BEING OFFENSIVE IF NO ONE FINDS IT OFFENSIVE. NOW, IF SOMEONE FINDS SOMETHING ELSE OFFENSIVE AND IT'S BASICALLY A PARALLEL OF THE SAME THING, I ASK YOU. WOULD YOU WARN BOTH PEOPLE OR WOULD YOU WARN NEITHER? THE LOGICAL CONCLUSION IS NEITHER, AND I SHOULDN'T EVEN NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY. And indeed. The single person was not enough to warn me based on it being offensive. So almost a week later I was warned and banned for breaking a rule against prejudicial comments. A rule I didn't realize existed. Now, you may say I shouldn't have forgotten it existed (and indeed, I definitely only got warned/banned for the specific wording I chose to use), but as I already pointed out, IF THE STAFF HAD REALIZED IT EXISTED I WOULD HAVE BEEN AT LEAST WARNED AND SUSPENDED WITHIN A DAY, AT THE MOST. HOW DO YOU TAKE FORGETTING THE EXISTENCE OF A RULE OUT ON A MEMBER IF THE STAFF DIDN'T REALIZE IT EXISTED EITHER? Also, caps lock does not mean angry. Caps lock means emphasis

(Speedwagon)"I'd say it's closer to indifference than dislike."

Shuuda

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Key word right here. I shouldn't need to explain. But I will later anyways

Allow me to rephrase that then: There was a report against the name change logged on the site and there were several outside of the site from members that could contact me through IM. I didn't find the name change offensive myself (I hardly find anything offensive these days, if at all) but that doesn't mean I have to neglect the fact that others did find it offensive and the possibility of others that may feel the same way but did not voice their opinions for reasons such as assuming that others have already done so so they don't need to.

If you've been warned before for name changes, why play with this one? It should've been common sense to at least ask a mod about this name change before doing so considering how you've been warned for name changes before.

Also, reports are not what dictate what we should and shouldn't warn. Most of the warns I hand out don't even come from reports and several of them have been ignored due to being them foolish (Disagreement = trolling, GG).

The report function is just a feature which can be used by members to help us find actions that they believe should be dealt with. Not everything that is reported is warned and on most instances, we look around to see the person reported was provoked or baited into what they did since it isn't out of the ordinary for a circle of friends to bait and report a certain user they hate just to get this user closer to a ban.

Put simply, Crash's report was not as big a factor in the decision as you believe it to be. He has a habit of finding too many things offensive and this is known by the staff and most of the users here so we don't blindly warn every little thing he or anyone else reports as evidenced by the fact that immediate action wasn't taken in this case and it was discussed before anything happened.

Shuuda

1 mod out of 4. How do you know there isn't a mod that actually likes you?

[CrashGordon94]

I have a question. Did anybody think to tell Hikarusa that they didn't like his name change?

I did, but that's already known.

I have one last thing to say about the matter: Like it or not, Hika's gone, all the mods are pretty much in agreement, and whether you feel they were wrong or right, you're prety much fighting a losing battle.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

[Mikethfc]

I have one last thing to say about the matter: Like it or not, Hika's gone, all the mods are pretty much in agreement, and whether you feel they were wrong or right, you're prety much fighting a losing battle.

Obviously somebody isn't a fan of these underdog sports movies ;)

And whilst the name change wasn't too smart if you compared the number of people who didn't care/mind to those who were offended its pretty one-sided to the left. Even if it was those who found found it funny against those who were offended the offended group would still be the minority.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Obviously somebody isn't a fan of these underdog sports movies ;)

And whilst the name change wasn't too smart if you compared the number of people who didn't care/mind to those who were offended its pretty one-sided to the left. Even if it was those who found found it funny against those who were offended the offended group would still be the minority.

I'm not sure of what your point is. Are you suggesting that this should be overlooked simply because there's less people that voiced the fact that they took offense to it than those that found it funny?