grandjackal Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wing Spear can likely wait on its forge until you get back to the mainlands if you're that desperate for money. Might be better considering it gives more flexibility of the Steel Bow forge. There are plenty of enemies off Shiida's gate that would get blown up by that weapon. The Bow forge I feel is nothing short of a knee-jerk reaction to the dracos early on, which I don't believe are 7K worth of gold in dangerous. In fact for that kind of gold, you could basically have made Arran a hard bodied bastard. Since that is 3 boosters, I'mma give Arran 3 to show how drastic that price tag is. As a draco, let's give him...A Wing, a Shield and a Robe. 31 HP, 11 Strength, 13 Speed, 14 Def. With double rainbow power, that's 13 Strength, 15 Speed and 16 Def. This is enough to double Dracos, and be 3RKOd by them. He can ORKO back with the Silver Lance. Note the 4RKOd part, as these are like the strongest enemy on the map. Also helpful to know is that he not only can still just weaken the enemy to feed kills with Steel or Iron, but unlike the forge it's not incredibly specific to a couple enemy types, and instead is good against maps of enemies. Yes Arran is not a good long term investment, but you could always do this with other characters or you could just nto care because over time your characters will be capramming at some point anyays. This is why that forge in my eyes is so silly. Why forge a bow when you could have Arran do his actual job of being a jeigen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Actually, the bow is necessary (I think) for dondon's 5 turn clear of Chapter 11. It also is kind of needed if you don't have a hardass like Fighter!MU in Chapter 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Actually, the bow is necessary (I think) for dondon's 5 turn clear of Chapter 11. It also is kind of needed if you don't have a hardass like Fighter!MU in Chapter 2. You can just get a silver bow at chapter 7 and buy more, forge +1 and have hte same thing with better acc, of which is still cheaper. And kinda need it? Did you not see the boosted Arran there? You can generally make anyone hardass this early with that kind of money, and they'll probably be more effective than a single bow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Jake can't wield a Silver Bow without an Arms Scroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Jake can't wield a Silver Bow without an Arms Scroll. ...Jake? Really? He's got a Killer Bow, and we don't even really care for his survival anyways. All he has to do really is not miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 @jackal- How do you propose to beat the chapter 2 boss without the forge? Note that he has 15 AS (IIRC) so not much will be doubling. You either lose turns without the forge or just plain cant get through the chapter without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 @jackal- How do you propose to beat the chapter 2 boss without the forge? Note that he has 15 AS (IIRC) so not much will be doubling. You either lose turns without the forge or just plain cant get through the chapter without it. Well considering the money spent on if we have Captain Arran, Raging Badass, the issue would simply be down to "Are my archers in the general vicinity" since Arran as shown can maim any and all wyverns he wants if he needs to. You shouldn't be struggling against this boss. In fact, I was never aware it was HE who was the problem that asked for the bow of Artemis herself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Arran can only double that DracoKnight after two Speedwings and a Rainbow Potion, as a Sniper. I would rather forge a Steel Bow thank you very much. ...Jake? Really? He's got a Killer Bow, and we don't even really care for his survival anyways. All he has to do really is not miss. But the Survival Rank! Edited June 20, 2012 by Tyranel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 You can just get a silver bow at chapter 7 and buy more, forge +1 and have hte same thing with better acc, of which is still cheaper. And kinda need it? Did you not see the boosted Arran there? You can generally make anyone hardass this early with that kind of money, and they'll probably be more effective than a single bow. So to save money we're going to buy a Silver Bow and give Arran (who is basically a dead investment,) 2-3 stat boosters, rather than just forging the Steel (which basically costs nothing because there's nothing else worth forging in Ch. 1) and saving the purchasing of those stat boosters for later? Never mind that the Steel is useful because it gives people who reclass to Sniper a good weapon without having to Arms Scroll them for Silver or if, you know, you want to use Ryan longterm (and regardless of whether you think Ryan is better than Linde I would rather give him the forge and hope he gets good levels to try to use him longterm than blow stat boosters on Arran who I will definitely not be using after Chapter 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Furthermore, the bow helps a lot while Sirius is possibly working up his way to Silver rank and units like Palla who possibly need the +Spd later on and kind of want to deter away from physical contact (well maybe mine, she was kind of Luck-screwed). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I actually meant to say a +4 Steel Bow, which should be sufficient for the most part. A +5 forge does make it easier to OHKO Dracoknights though. The other advantage is that a character reclassed to Sniper (like Sirius) can make use of this forge before they hit B rank. It's also the equivalent of a Silver Bow in power anyway, so you don't even need to invest in Arms Scrolls for those units. You can just have them use the forge instead, which makes it a good weapon throughout the game. Edit: Dammit, ninja'd. Edited June 20, 2012 by Tyrant Sage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) I would actually slam the Arms Scroll on Sirius if it's possible, if only because Horseman is desperate to get to Silvers before trying to snap the (possible) remains of the Steel Bow forge. I can confess it can have some nice uses in Chapter 17, for example, and could even be useful in Chapter 21. This also allows Palla to sort of wade with the bow if she wants to, I guess, a little more. Or Caeda, but she's too busy with Wing Spear and being superior to Sirius. Another reason is that weapon experience is a drag in this game, and Bows aren't getting that much Enemy Phase action to build up quickly from C->B, at least in a reasonable time frame. Edited June 20, 2012 by Tyranel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) Arran can only double that DracoKnight after two Speedwings and a Rainbow Potion, as a Sniper. Arran has 11 speed, so hte wing and rainbow gives him 15 speed, and dracos have 10-11 speed. He only needs 1. But the Survival Rank! Survival rank is for bitches. As to Paperblade, you act like this miraculous forge is lasting forever as to be able to be passed to people reclassing. That forge breaks eventually. I doubt it's use as a weapon for people who have no business using bows in the first place is worth the thought. As a note, I'm admitting that the Arran boost is absurd, it's just you can do a lot with all that money, and I think this ridiculous forge is just as silly. I don't say that Ryan sucks, it's just no one is really pointing out why so I don't get what this sudden enthusiasm is all about. EDIT: Oh right, almost forgot. What exactly is the problem with buying a Weapon Scroll for these people want this silly ass bow? You could buy 3 for the price of that dumb forge. Anyone with access to Sniper gets free Silvers. What, do we need Navarre to have bow use? Edited June 20, 2012 by grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Arran has 11 speed, so hte wing and rainbow gives him 15 speed, and dracos have 10-11 speed. He only needs 1. Except I'm not talking about the other DracoKnights. The boss is the real dilemma because there are few units that can sit and actually take a hit and prevent getting doubled. The chances are that's likely... My Unit. And I highly doubt My Unit is killing the boss in two swings unless it's Fighter. Rummel has 38 HP | 11 Def. Fighter My Unit would need 19 Str and Steel Axes to 2HKO him. That's just one example, though. The Steel Bow forge can help with: - Finishing off Chapter 6's Sniper, which I may remind you is a bitch to kill. - Help with a reliable chance of Jake surviving against the Flying Dragon in Chapter 11, and thus access the Secret Shop next turn. - Help with clearing the DracoKnights in Chapter 17 Turn 1. They are quite a bitch to kill. And like we've mentioned many times, it helps units such as Sirius and Palla who need the faster classes (or in Sirius's case, just to hold a nice niche while being in a slightly faster class) function and keep up with the damage protocol. EDIT: Oh right, almost forgot. What exactly is the problem with buying a Weapon Scroll for these people want this silly ass bow? You could buy 3 for the price of that dumb forge. Anyone with access to Sniper gets free Silvers. What, do we need Navarre to have bow use? The bow works two-fold. It not only circumvents the issue of ORKOing DracoKnights, but it also doubles as a reliable weapon when needed. Slapping 2-3 Arms Scrolls for Silver Bows doesn't exactly solve the issue, and it later becomes a minor waste since units such as Ryan get a massive boost to their Bow rank upon promotion anyway. The bow also isn't locked to one unit - and practically anyone that can access Sniper or Horseman can use it, such as My Unit if warranted. Edited June 21, 2012 by Tyranel M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 It has 35 uses and would only need to be used when the difference in power matters. It will certainly last longer than Arran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Except I'm not talking about the other DracoKnights. The boss is the real dilemma because there are few units that can sit and actually take a hit and prevent getting doubled. The chances are that's likely... My Unit. And I highly doubt My Unit is killing the boss in two swings unless it's Fighter. Rummel has 38 HP | 11 Def. Fighter My Unit would need 19 Str and Steel Axes to 2HKO him. ...Why aren't we using Fighter MU, and why are we acting like we only have 1 archer? Seriously, am I the only one who finds chapter 2 not difficult? That's just one example, though.The Steel Bow forge can help with: - Finishing off Chapter 6's Sniper, which I may remind you is a bitch to kill. Don't we have Aura totally for free? - Help with a reliable chance of Jake surviving against the Flying Dragon in Chapter 11, and thus access the Secret Shop next turn. Why does Jake need to survive? Seriously, why do we care? - Help with clearing the DracoKnights in Chapter 17 Turn 1. They are quite a bitch to kill. You have Parthia and at least 1 Silver Bow, of which I remind you you could have 3 silvers in place of one ridiculous forge. like we've mentioned many times, it helps units such as Sirius and Palla who need the faster classes (or in Sirius's case, just to hold a nice niche while being in a slightly faster class) function and keep up with the damage protocol. Get 2 weapon scrolls and buy another Silver. It's around the same price and not as dumb. The bow works two-fold. It not only circumvents the issue of ORKOing DracoKnights, but it also doubles as a reliable weapon when needed. Slapping 2-3 Arms Scrolls for Silver Bows doesn't exactly solve the issue, and it later becomes a minor waste since units such as Ryan get a massive boost to their Bow rank upon promotion anyway. The bow also isn't locked to one unit - and practically anyone that can access Sniper or Horseman can use it, such as My Unit if warranted. A minor waste? Wasting 7K when I could do the same with 5K is the definition of waste, and guys like Sirius and Minerva don't promote, and the scrolls give htem automatic silver. Ryan and 2 other people already have rank for it, so it's like...Why are you bothering? Guys like Luke and other unpromoted folks have no real business bothering with bows, and even then it's not like we need a whole army of Snipers just to justify the world's most luxurious forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 ...Why aren't we using Fighter MU, and why are we acting like we only have 1 archer? Seriously, am I the only one who finds chapter 2 not difficult? This tier list assumes Fighter!MU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 This tier list assumes Fighter!MU? Well everything else is dumb in comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Well everything else is dumb in comparison. Knight MU, Myrmidon MU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Pegasus Knight MU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) Wtf double post. Edited June 21, 2012 by grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Knight MU, Myrmidon MU Knight MU got dispelled a long while ago, just about everyone I know hates Myrm MU (and I know this because I am the one that came up with it), and Pegasus MU came out of nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Pegasus Knight MU is horrible haha. Thats why I slashed it. Its still possible to do the game with it though as I demonstrated in my playthrough, its just more annoying and you lose turns early on to fighter!MU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Exactly, so why bother with assuming anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Knight MU got dispelled a long while ago, just about everyone I know hates Myrm MU (and I know this because I am the one that came up with it), and Pegasus MU came out of nowhere. Have you seen Balcerzak's videos? They pretty much demonstrate Myrmidon MU is a nuke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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