Generals need better caps

[Narga_Rocks]

Dude, calm the hell down. You seem really worked up over nothing.

They did not take out FE10's hard mode and they did not take out FE11's H5. The only mode they took out was FE9's maniac mode. That is my point.

Okay? And his point is that they have a history of doing stuff. Whether it is making fe10 easier without changing the enemies or removing a mode completely or changing 3x effective weapons into 2x in fe7, they have a history of changing things when it gets to NA. As to who "they" is, since I don't work with them (duh) I can't actually state 100% that it is NoA that is doing it, but someone obviously makes this choice.

Was fe11 changed at all? Was fe8? I'm not sure, but even if they aren't that's 3 of the 5 games that actually reached NA that got altered. History indicates that there is a good chance they'll do something to it. Only 1 out of 5 got its hardest mode removed, granted, so it's entirely possible that we will get Lunatic here. However, it is certainly likely that something will be changed, and Lunatic is one possibility.

I don't consider it unlikely -- the hard work is already done, after all -- but there will still be the sense of a bullet just dodged,

Basically, we'll probably get Lunatic, but if we do some people will feel that we dodged a bullet. As in, there was probably a chance that it wouldn't make it here.

[Momo]

Okay? And his point is that they have a history of doing stuff. Whether it is making fe10 easier without changing the enemies or removing a mode completely or changing 3x effective weapons into 2x in fe7, they have a history of changing things when it gets to NA. As to who "they" is, since I don't work with them (duh) I can't actually state 100% that it is NoA that is doing it, but someone obviously makes this choice.

Well firstly, I thought the 2x effectiveness was simply part of the game, not a change in localization. How does that make it easier for us anyway? Enemies typically don't have those.

But that's beside the point, nothing was taken out of the games except for FE9. The first post I quoted implied that Lunatic mode would not be in the game and I simply stated that such a thing has only happened once. I am saying no more than that, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

edit: pardon me, I forgot FE10. Haven't actually played the game, but didn't they take master seals out or something? that's another thing I already mentioned

Was fe11 changed at all? Was fe8? I'm not sure, but even if they aren't that's 3 of the 5 games that actually reached NA that got altered. History indicates that there is a good chance they'll do something to it. Only 1 out of 5 got its hardest mode removed, granted, so it's entirely possible that we will get Lunatic here. However, it is certainly likely that something will be changed, and Lunatic is one possibility.

FE8 had minor changes in stats (couldn't really tell you which ones, but I think Cormag got a tiiiny drop in effectiveness? either way I wonder why they bothered), I don't think there's anything else. FE11's localization gave us new maps in Wifi. Neither of them took out hard modes.

Basically, we'll probably get Lunatic, but if we do some people will feel that we dodged a bullet. As in, there was probably a chance that it wouldn't make it here.

And I'm saying that chance is slim, because they've only done such a thing once, and haven't since.

Edited July 28, 2010 by A boy named Sal

[Anouleth]

FE8 had minor changes in stats (couldn't really tell you which ones, but I think Cormag got a tiiiny drop in effectiveness? either way I wonder why they bothered), I don't think there's anything else. FE11's localization gave us new maps in Wifi. Neither of them took out hard modes.

Cormag initially had better base stats than Seth on Eirika Route. Like, think FE6 Miledy. He was actually buffed on Ephraim Route.

And you couldn't buy stat boosters in Chapter 14 anymore. So I guess it was slightly more difficult. They didn't really 'remove' anything, though. The only game where they saw something and deliberately excised it was FE9, I think.

[Rakath]

Lots of game series will use localization to work out some balances, but most of the time it isn't a a malice-based 'we must make the game easier for the stupid Americans' deal.

I mean, I am sure someone somewhere ranted and raved at the changes made to Dissidia from the initial release to the second release. I'm sure someone complains every time balances are remade in Team Fortress 2, but both series aren't doing it to harm a player base, just make the game better.

Like the added FE11 Wi-Fi maps.

Will there be changes to the NOA release of FE12... probably. Do I think the changes will be so mind bendingly huge that it won't look like the Japanese release... far less likely.

*Hoping Map 3 from Wi-Fi vanishes mysteriously.*

[Interceptor]

I stopped replying to this train wreck of a conversation because I thought that it was deemed sufficiently off-topic. Is it not, now? Well then, tally ho, release the dogs of war.

Well firstly, I thought the 2x effectiveness was simply part of the game, not a change in localization. How does that make it easier for us anyway? Enemies typically don't have those.

Except when they do, which of course makes all the difference. I'm sure that Oswin would probably mind when the Hammertime enemies got +11 effective mt on him with WTA. I mentioned an Armor, does this make the post on-topic?

But that's beside the point, nothing was taken out of the games except for FE9. The first post I quoted implied that Lunatic mode would not be in the game and I simply stated that such a thing has only happened once. I am saying no more than that, stop trying to put words in my mouth.

And the second post clarified the relative ambiguity of the first, which would have been the end of it, had you not proceeded to run your mouth about a completely tangential issue.

There's no need to repeat yourself in italics, here. Your point is not misunderstood; your point is retarded. The argument that IS has only dumped a difficulty mode in FE9 but not FE10, is a distinction without a difference: there were changes made to FE10 that fundamentally altered the difficulty modes with respect to the JP counterparts. This is not even something that can be credibly disputed, least of all by someone who never even played the game in the first place.

As a final parting remark, I'd like to say that it's rich of you to accuse someone of putting words in your mouth, when 1) nobody is actually doing that, and 2) you did it to someone else in this thread. I'll quote it for you, since I expect that you forgot about it 5 seconds after hitting "post":

"Waah these weapons make the game easier"

[grandjackal]

Cormag initially had better base stats than Seth on Eirika Route. Like, think FE6 Miledy. He was actually buffed on Ephraim Route.

And you couldn't buy stat boosters in Chapter 14 anymore. So I guess it was slightly more difficult. They didn't really 'remove' anything, though. The only game where they saw something and deliberately excised it was FE9, I think.

Don't forget that Reiv in the second to last chapter moves to attack you. That sucked, since the dude had Aura with a lot of crit.

[Charpig]

edit: pardon me, I forgot FE10. Haven't actually played the game, but didn't they take master seals out or something? that's another thing I already mentioned

The master seals and crowns are still in the NA version of FE10. What was changed was that you did not require Master Crowns to go to third tier, you could do so simply by leveling up. In the JP version of FE10 Master Crowns were required to go to third tier, and there were more master crowns to find in the game.

[Momo]

Except when they do, which of course makes all the difference. I'm sure that Oswin would probably mind when the Hammertime enemies got +11 effective mt on him with WTA. I mentioned an Armor, does this make the post on-topic?

How about when your effective weapons are weakened, which happens way more often? That sounds like it makes the game harder, not easier.

And the second post clarified the relative ambiguity of the first, which would have been the end of it, had you not proceeded to run your mouth about a completely tangential issue.

You're the one that made this a big thing, your posts have been way more "running of the mouth" than mine, duder.

There's no need to repeat yourself in italics, here. Your point is not misunderstood; your point is retarded. The argument that IS has only dumped a difficulty mode in FE9 but not FE10, is a distinction without a difference: there were changes made to FE10 that fundamentally altered the difficulty modes with respect to the JP counterparts. This is not even something that can be credibly disputed, least of all by someone who never even played the game in the first place.

Is there a reason you're being so confrontational? There is no need to call me retarded and this isn't some kind of debate. We started by simply trading posts, and now you seem genuinely offended. Get a grip dude.

As for FE10, you mentioned master crowns and the prf weapons. I already said Master Crowns do indeed change the game, but if you want the Japanese style difficulty, you have the option of not using the weapons. It is simply an option you have to make it easier on yourself, the game isn't putting a gun to your head and forcing you to use them.

As a final parting remark, I'd like to say that it's rich of you to accuse someone of putting words in your mouth, when 1) nobody is actually doing that, and 2) you did it to someone else in this thread. I'll quote it for you, since I expect that you forgot about it 5 seconds after hitting "post":

You've been trying to paint my argument as "IS has never changed anything", while I am simply saying "They haven't taken anything out since FE9". Sounds like putting words into my mouth to me. As for my post, I was simply joking about your stance. You have complained about the weapons making the game easier, don't even try to deny that.

(Also, I'm not gonna reply to you anymore if you don't calm down. Nobody else in this topic has replied to me in such a way, why must you?)

Edited July 28, 2010 by A boy named Sal

[Renall]

No other stat drains a game of its challenge because you're supposed to be avoid dying (which makes great offensive strategies impressive). Look no further than Sedgar & Wolf in FEDS.

Counterpoint: Sedgar and Wolf are nowhere near as godlike as the dodge tanks of FE4/5. And if you moved those dodge tanks' stat spreads to any other FE, they would still have fantastic doubling. If you moved the Sedgar-General growths to a game where Generals did not have a crazy high DEF base, the Sedgar/Wolf archetype would pretty much suck.

Yes, they lag in efficiency but they're easy mode otherwise because the game wasn't meant for you to have such high Def units.

Yes, you weren't meant to have such high DEF units at that point in the game, but they kludged it so that Sedgar/Wolf are promoted units at a low level (when the rest of their allies are Cavaliers) in order to give them horses, then "fixed" their lack of levels to grow into with better growths. This combined with the stupid base DEF of Generals to produce godlike units because you weren't supposed to have promoted units anyway. It has nothing to do with the viability of the class other than IS being incredibly generous with DEF bases in the DS games.

It's not DEF's problem. It's stupid design in all other areas.

The fact that Lunatic mode has enemies as powerful as they are is telling the kind of telling as to how good Def is.

Bullshit, the reason they're so strong in Lunatic is their offense and SPD, and it's characters' ability to double or avoid doubling that we care about, not how much DEF they have. At some point the forges get crazy enough that DEF isn't a big help. Great for the Prologue? Sure. But at some point Mt is gonna surpass anybody's DEF, and then it's a question of whether you can take more than one hit (and thus you must be non-doubled or you're taking two and dying). You sure as hell aren't tinking much in Lunatic once it gets going. Conversely, SPD is all-consuming and offensive stats are also clutch. DEF scarcely rates, unless it's sufficient to allow a unit to take a fair number more hits when they show up and thus hit the ground running and develop to viability. To say it has anything to do with DEF's dominance as a stat is absurd, it's just the effect of being grossly out-statted in general.

In games with low caps, notice how one of the games Armors have 10% Def growth and in the other there are hammer enemies to remove your armor. Yeah, they're telling you not to use n00b units.

Except in FE5 I can get Brighton or Marty to about the same level of DEF as Dalshien, with better offense, and oh yes they all three have ~20 DEF yet only Dalshien takes effective damage from the billions of Hammers wielded by enemies. Meaning the "armor" unit you loathe so much actually has worse effective DEF than the other characters since unarmored foot units don't take extra damage from any weapons, plus the armor guy has worse mobility and offense. And this is balanced by............

So your thesis is that they put classes in the game we shouldn't be using, apparently to fuck with us. Yet also that these classes are "n00b" for being terrible at the thing they're supposed to be good at, again, apparently because the designers are fucking with us and tricking us into using shitty units because we expect a guy with armor to be durable.

Well.

Interceptor's (valid) point that IS doesn't give a shit aside, that's pretty stupid game design.

[Charpig]

True, if you are facing Berserkers with 50 Atk then just about everyone will die in two or three hits, including Generals. Magic users are gonna get one shotted for sure. I have never played a non-Radiant Dawn Fire Emblem where I could get a magic user to have well over 10 Def and 40 HP (thus surviving one 50 Atk hit) without cheating or RNG abusing. But magic users can at least serve as healers if they're no good for fighting. Generals are only worse off than other units because they get doubled, as well as having weapon triangle disadvantage against Berserkers. (I know there are more enemies than Berserkers, I just used them as an example.)

Radiant Dawn was when Paladins and magic users got nerfed. Now it's the General's turn to get nerfed, which makes me sad because General is my favorite Fire Emblem class. Generals could defend reliably in H5 Mode of Shadow Dragon, assuming their Defense kept up. Now nobody can defend reliably in Lunatic mode of this game. 50 Atk from GENERIC enemies?! (I would like to see a screenshot of that.) See, this is what happens when we complain about games being too easy. Nintendo does pay attention when we say stuff like that. And Lunatic mode proves it.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Charpig

[dondon151]

(Also, I'm not gonna reply to you anymore if you don't calm down. Nobody else in this topic has replied to me in such a way, why must you?)

You sound pretty agitated yourself.

Anyway, it's a slippery slope when it comes to taking out higher difficulties and dumbing down the existing difficulties. If you looked at FE7, FE9, and FE10 in particular, IS has a much longer track record of making the game easier for NA release rather then keeping difficulty the same or harder.

[Charpig]

Anyway, it's a slippery slope when it comes to taking out higher difficulties and dumbing down the existing difficulties. If you looked at FE7, FE9, and FE10 in particular, IS has a much longer track record of making the game easier for NA release rather then keeping difficulty the same or harder.

I think that is only because North American gamers were experiencing Fire Emblem for the very first time with FE7. I think the dumbed down difficulty was perfectly justified. When FE9 came out, Americans were still not ready for a serious Fire Emblem challenge, so that's why Maniac mode was taken out. FE10's changes didn't affect everyone. I barely ever use forged weapons, so the forging points system wouldn't have bothered me one bit. I also try to promote people with Master Crowns at Level 20 in order to save a level of BEXP or CEXP. I didn't use Tarvos, Lughnasadh, or Calabolg a lot either.

I don't know what, if anything, was changed for FE11's NA release. Why are you all so worried that Lunatic mode will be removed from FE12 when it comes to NA? Some of you are already playing the game, so you already have access to Lunatic mode. I have found Fire Emblem to be a game that is as easy or as hard as you want it to be. You can blow through the games with two or three arena abused units at maximum stats, or you can play with 0% growths. Even FE8 can be made very difficult if you want it to be. And why are we bashing IS so much when they are making the Fire Emblem games that we love so much? (Since this is a Fire Emblem based website, I make the assumption that all of you like at least one Fire Emblem.)

[Narga_Rocks]

I stopped replying to this train wreck of a conversation because I thought that it was deemed sufficiently off-topic. Is it not, now? Well then, tally ho, release the dogs of war.

He posted 2 hours after my post about it being off-topic. If he wants to dance that much, who am I to say no?

As for Sal, um, calling a point "retarded" is clearly not the same as calling a person retarded. You are still putting words in other people's mouths, meaning that complaining about other people allegedly doing the same is hypocritical.

As for the way he replied, that's just his thing. Most people seem to be able to get past it. As for him, when people say things he thinks are dumb (not necessarily saying he's right about that each time) he gets this way. If people don't, he doesn't.

As for fe10, you are again ignoring Resolve and Wrath. While you could claim that you could simply not use the 3 prfs if you want things harder, you can't claim that you could use the original versions of Resolve/Wrath. Nor could you play as if Master Crowns were required (you can't keep using level 20 units without them promoting like you would have to in fe10 EM/NM in Japan. HM you might be okay since you probably won't get to 20/"21" before the crowns start appearing. However, you also can't early-promote as many units). Also, the existence of those weapons makes things easier, yes? Whether you choose to use them or not, this is still an option that the Japanese version did not have. I suppose if there was an infinite use item that increased all stats (including move) by 10 each, that you'd say "oh, the game isn't easy. You can choose not to use that item". Might as well pretend that Wing Spear didn't exist in fe11 (granted that was in the Japanese version too, I suppose). I mean, forging effective weapons is what apparently makes H5 a near-joke at times. Those and warp staves. You could say "well, you don't have to use them", but they still mean that the game itself is easier than what you got in Japan (in the case of fe10 and the prfs).

Also, in fe7 you do fine with 2x effectiveness for yourselves. In return for losing 3x effectiveness, those bow enemies are no longer as terrifying to fliers, hammers and horseslayers aren't a huge problem for Generals/Paladins, and swordslayers aren't OHKOing sword users (or was it specific classes?). As far as trades go, that makes things easier, not harder.

[Momo]

He posted 2 hours after my post about it being off-topic. If he wants to dance that much, who am I to say no?

Thanks. I need to practice for the ball :3

As for Sal, um, calling a point "retarded" is clearly not the same as calling a person retarded. You are still putting words in other people's mouths, meaning that complaining about other people allegedly doing the same is hypocritical.

You're nitpicking, pal.

As for the way he replied, that's just his thing. Most people seem to be able to get past it. As for him, when people say things he thinks are dumb (not necessarily saying he's right about that each time) he gets this way. If people don't, he doesn't.

So he should cut it out, this ain't no big thing and there's no reason to get riled up.

As for fe10, you are again ignoring Resolve and Wrath. While you could claim that you could simply not use the 3 prfs if you want things harder, you can't claim that you could use the original versions of Resolve/Wrath.

This was not mentioned multiple times, which is why I ignored it. I couldn't tell you the specifics of that, since I haven't played the game.

Nor could you play as if Master Crowns were required (you can't keep using level 20 units without them promoting like you would have to in fe10 EM/NM in Japan. HM you might be okay since you probably won't get to 20/"21" before the crowns start appearing. However, you also can't early-promote as many units).

I already said "Besides Master Crowns", which is indeed different.

Also, the existence of those weapons makes things easier, yes? Whether you choose to use them or not, this is still an option that the Japanese version did not have. I suppose if there was an infinite use item that increased all stats (including move) by 10 each, that you'd say "oh, the game isn't easy. You can choose not to use that item". Might as well pretend that Wing Spear didn't exist in fe11 (granted that was in the Japanese version too, I suppose). I mean, forging effective weapons is what apparently makes H5 a near-joke at times. Those and warp staves. You could say "well, you don't have to use them", but they still mean that the game itself is easier than what you got in Japan (in the case of fe10 and the prfs).

My point is why complain about certain weapons making a game easier? You can simply not use them. What exactly is the problem with having a new option?

Also, in fe7 you do fine with 2x effectiveness for yourselves. In return for losing 3x effectiveness, those bow enemies are no longer as terrifying to fliers, hammers and horseslayers aren't a huge problem for Generals/Paladins, and swordslayers aren't OHKOing sword users (or was it specific classes?). As far as trades go, that makes things easier, not harder.

If you can have a situational "What if Oswin attacks someone and would die if hammers had 3x effectiveness" then I can very easily say, "What if Eliwood was one hit from dying, and 2x effective rapier didn't kill the cav". The player has way more effective weapons than the enemy does, that's more a hit on you than them.

[Narga_Rocks]

You're nitpicking, pal.

It's actually a pretty huge difference, and hence you were putting words into his mouth. Just accept it or stop doing it. Your choice.

So he should cut it out, this ain't no big thing and there's no reason to get riled up.

Oh come on. His middle name is practically "riled". If you don't want to deal with it, don't respond to him. It's that simple.

My point is why complain about certain weapons making a game easier? You can simply not use them. What exactly is the problem with having a new option?

The complaint is that NoA makes the game easier. Whether the player chooses to take advantage of those changes is irrelevant. The point stands no matter what the player chooses to do about it.

If you can have a situational "What if Oswin attacks someone and would die if hammers had 3x effectiveness" then I can very easily say, "What if Eliwood was one hit from dying, and 2x effective rapier didn't kill the cav". The player has way more effective weapons than the enemy does, that's more a hit on you than them.

I'm more worried about "I can't take Thany anywhere near bows because she'll die" type of things that you don't need to worry about in fe7 because bows only have 2x effectiveness. Thany would be even easier to use if effectiveness was only 2x in fe6. As for Eliwood, have someone else weaken it first? Heal Eliwood? Plenty of options. Your options for dealing with bow users when you have 3x effectiveness? You have to be considerably more careful with your fliers. Also ballistas are a pain in this regard. Particularly since move maxes at 8 (without boots), javelins can give 2 range, so even if your flier was capable of ORKOing the sniper/archer on a ballista, you still can't get there and attack on the same turn without a dancer's help. In order to attack on one turn (without dancer/boots help), you need to be within their range on the previous turn.

Oswin not caring as much about Hammers is a benefit, sure, but the main reason I don't enjoy 3x effectiveness is bows against fliers.

So, if I tell you (directly) to stop being off-topic, will you listen this time? This is a large number of posts being off-topic for all of us. Some people appear to be trying to keep the thread on-topic with talk about Generals and their defence. If you must reply to me, do it in a new topic. Preferably in "General Fire Emblem", given that is the subject matter.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Narga_Rocks

[Anouleth]

Back on topic, one thing I dislike about FE is when the game becomes a competition of 'who has the best caps', like Radiant Dawn, or FE8 Creature Campaign, or this game. Not only is it bad in the sense that it removes the possibility of RNG-blessage (while preserving the possibility of RNG-screwage), but it removes a lot of the individuality of characters when they're so similiar having hit their caps.

In addition, it gives a (admittedly irrational) sense of being cheated out of extra stat gains by an arbitrary and abstract declaration that no, you are not allowed to have X strength. Caps should exist in theory, but either they should be raised out of the reach of characters, or they should lower character's stats so that they're less likely to hit their caps.

[Charpig]

It would be easier to kill the Fire Dragon if Aureola, Durandal, and others had 3x effectiveness. That's definitely one instance in FE7 where I wish I had an effective coefficient of 3.

Yes, it is true that Fire Emblems get easier when they come to NA. I personally am not insulted by that, many of you don't like the change however. I considered the Fire Emblem games to be challenging enough as they were, especially when I was a first timer. H5 in Shadow Dragon was pretty hard, and if New Mystery has a mode that is harder than that, it doesn't seem to me like IS is making the Fire Emblems easier. A direct sequel to a Fire Emblem is harder than the original. Thracia 776 is harder than Seisen no Keifu. Sword of Seals is harder than Blazing Sword. Radiant Dawn is harder than Path of Radiance. What I say is, you can do whatever you need to do to make a game sufficiently challenging for you. I see a lot of topics on Serenes Forest that log challenge playthroughs.

What is the challenge playthrough for this game? Use Generals, because apparently they suck in this game. If they need better caps, it is in their Speed. Their Strength cap is pretty good (27), so they don't need much more of that. I don't know the attack power of Lunatic Mages, but I can't imagine Paladins faring any better because they only have 3 more Res than Generals in their class bases.

Regarding caps in general (again, no pun intended), that is a character's true limit. And as I said before, caps are useless if you can't reach them. Maybe they should go back to giving all characters the same caps (like in FE3 or FE5), and have the caps be 50 in everything (maybe 60 or 80 for HP).

Edited July 29, 2010 by Charpig

[CO_Fimbulvetr]

Magic users are gonna get one shotted for sure. I have never played a non-Radiant Dawn Fire Emblem where I could get a magic user to have well over 10 Def and 40 HP (thus surviving one 50 Atk hit) without cheating or RNG abusing.

Frankly I don't think I've ever failed to have my Mages in this game achieve this. The bigger problem is that if your Sages/Sorcerers haven't capped speed they get doubled, and die.

Also about caps: I think these were in FE11 too, but WTF are with the Paladin's 25 and the Berserker's 22 luck caps?

EDIT:

Sword of Seals is harder than Blazing Sword.

PREQUEL

Edited July 29, 2010 by CO_Fimbulvetr

[Charpig]

Frankly I don't think I've ever failed to have my Mages in this game achieve this. The bigger problem is that if your Sages/Sorcerers haven't capped speed they get doubled, and die.

Also about caps: I think these were in FE11 too, but WTF are with the Paladin's 25 and the Berserker's 22 luck caps

Ah, that must mean that enemy Berserkers have 28 Spd? WOW. So Generals ARE screwed then. Basically Lunatic means you have to have perfect stats or you die. You must also have good growth rates if your Sages can get enough HP/Def to survive a 50 Atk hit (the total growth rates haven't been posted on this site yet, so I don't know them). Paladins are in the same boat as Sages/Sorcerers, as all three classes have a 25 Speed Cap.

About the weird Luck caps for Paladins and Berserkers, I have no explanation. But unless Berserkers, Swordmasters, Snipers, or other units get a significant critical bonus, it doesn't impact combat too much. Snipers got a 5 critical bonus, Berserkers got 10 in Shadow Dragon, but high Luck is still enough to cancel that out. The main problem with Generals is SPEED. Dracoknights would also get doubled by enemy Berserkers, as their Speed cap is only 23. I bring up Dracoknights because they also have a 30 Def Cap.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Charpig

[CO_Fimbulvetr]

There's a change to the critical formula that means that with a high crit weapon it wouldn't be surprising to see a 50% at the end.

For the final chapter of Maniac I had to change Sirius to a Swordmaster so he wasn't doubled by Medeus... The only reason I didn't change Minerva to anything else is that DracoKnight is the only female class with Axes, which is really annoying.

Basically: Low speed = you lose

Edited July 29, 2010 by CO_Fimbulvetr

[Charpig]

There's a change to the critical formula that means that with a high crit weapon it wouldn't be surprising to see a 50% at the end.

From the enemy? In that case, having 30 Luck over 25 or 22 wouldn't save you. I guess you just have to cross your fingers and hope you don't get criticaled.

[Juigi Kario]

Do you even need to dodge over 9000 attacks when you can already generally hit the enemy at least 6 times per round for decent (not anything less than 5) damage per hit, or just plain rape them with magic abuse? And unless the enemy's hit rate is a flat 0, you can still get hit anyway, however unlikely it is at low percentages.

Anyway, Super FE3 Player's point is that Physical Defense caused the hiked up offense ability. Even without immunity to damage, the damage reduction can add up in a hurry. If 1HKOing becomes impossible, every point of Physical Defense is worth at least TWO HPs. That is 40 to 60 HPs assuming caps. Might as well have four lines of health if the opponent doesn't use a mage sufficiently. And this, of course, is just 2HKOs. Let it become 3HKOs, perhaps 4HKOs, or just throw in decent healing and it gets RIDICULOUS!

Speed is definitely far more disgusting, though, simply because of the double-attacking. But we can hardly let Physical Defense off the hook in any FE where Might in general isn't very high. Try hacking Physical Defense into the difficulty-boosted growths--no, they aren't in them, I can be sure of that--and see if that hacked version of Lunatic doesn't make vanilla Lunatic look like a joke. I guarantee you that I will win that bet and you will not have fun at all.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Juigi Kario

[CO_Fimbulvetr]

I meant on your characters, not the enemies

I'm guessing here, but the Killer Axe Berserkers probably have about 40-45. 10 from class, 20 from weapon, 15 or so from skill. The new formula gives 1 point instead of 1/2 a point of crit for each point of skill over 20.

EDIT: In post 20 chapters, you dodge or you die. 2HKOs for just about everyone.

Edited July 29, 2010 by CO_Fimbulvetr

[MasterJP28]

From the enemy? In that case, having 30 Luck over 25 or 22 wouldn't save you. I guess you just have to cross your fingers and hope you don't get criticaled.

The purpose of the 22 luck for Berserker is so that it will have the same avoid as Warriore. 24 Speed plus 30 luck equals 39 avoid, 28 speed and 22 luck equals 39 avoid. Paladins have lower luck so that Dracoknight will have higher avoid even though it has less speed. 25 speed and luck equal 37, 23+30 is 38, general 21+30 is 36 but generals are in Male B so they don't really count. Only applies for the classes in their same respective set.

[Juigi Kario]

We know about the Lunatic enemies 2HKOing thing, thank you very much. The point is how they are even that way to begin with. They ultimately prove that Speed is THE broken stat as it is. Wouldn't stop Physical Defense from taking the silver consolation prize.