Tell me how wrong this person is

[Narga_Rocks]

His response, Narga.

Is this gamefaqs? Also, wherever it is, what's the user's name? I'm wondering if I've seen someone like that before.

Anyway, with people like that you are never going to reconcile. Some of us think the best way to judge characters is what they do for us under a playthrough where we just go chapter by chapter beating as quickly as we can (safely or otherwise, depending on the person here). Others like this strange idea of "potential", which I can only assume is 20/20 stats and I think is silly because that still doesn't tell you how good they were before then or measure how easy it was to get the unit there.

[Joerachi]

Serebii clan Xat chatroom.

He's also reading this thread too.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Butbut...

he's hot~

inorite?

I love pairing him with Eirika. <3

Anyway, I dont play efficiently so, yeah...But Seth always gets deployed because hes really good to have around regardless. Whether it be stomping through maps or utility, hes great. His usefulness never ever wavers.

[Joerachi]

Ok, the person in question has just made an account.

Try not to be ballbusters like you sometimes are.

[Galenforcer]

Why does he need an account when his friend is already representing him?

Seth is awesome in both casual and LTC runs. It bugs me when people feel FE games are more "get everyone to 20/20," then beating the game as fast as humanly possible.

[Joerachi]

So I can stop being the messenger.

[Galenforcer]

You don't have to tell us. We don't really care.

[Luna]

Wonderful. I just love to be referred to as "the person in question". God I feel like a criminal or something... :( So yeh, I apologize, but I don't like using seth that much. I admit he is useful in the first bunch of chapters, but I've actually managed to get him killed before, and when he doesn't get killed, he soaks up all the experience that I want to invest in units I plan to USE later. Units that, for me, have consistently turned out well, whether I use the tower of valni or not, like Lute and Neimi. You can argue all you want, but they always work out for me... so I'd rather they get exp, not seth, who only gets like 3 exp per kill anyway. Plus, there's Eirika to think about in the REALLY early levels. However, just because I don't get how you people think and enjoy the game doesn't mean we have to continue arguing about it. There is no "right way to play" nor is there a "right way to judge characters". Everyone has a right to their own opinions and judgements, and in this case I have to say that I do not like to use Seth much.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Luna

[Mousefire]

There is no "right way to play" nor is there a "right way to judge characters". Everyone has a right to their own opinions and judgements, and in this case I have to say that I do not like to use Seth much.

The correct way of judging characters is average stats, base stats, join times, classes, and supports. It relies on facts instead of personal experience. Around here, they always say personal experience means nothing.

[Rewjeo]

No one really cares what your OPINION is at all. The problem comes when you say things that are factually incorrect. So, are you simply saying you don't like using him, or that you don't think that he's a good unit?

[Anouleth]

The correct way of judging characters is average stats, base stats, join times, classes, and supports. It relies on facts instead of personal experience. Around here, they always say personal experience means nothing.

In his personal experience, he doesn't like to use Seth. How are you having difficulty understanding his post?

No one really cares what your OPINION is at all.

That's a bit harsh. After all, he didn't make this thread, he just came in and tried to defend himself.

[Silvercrow]

Talking about people you don't even know behind their backs on other forums is pretty dickish anyway.

Really, though, if you don't like to use Seth, by all means, don't. I usually avoid using him myself unless I'm trying to do a speed/efficiency run. But calling him "not that great" is just incorrect.

Although, why people take enough issue about it to POST ABOUT IT ON ANOTHER FORUM, I'm not quite sure...

[Junkhead]

I did a no-Seth run while pulling good turncounts.

[Venusaur]

Wonderful. I just love to be referred to as "the person in question". God I feel like a criminal or something... :( So yeh, I apologize, but I don't like using seth that much. I admit he is useful in the first bunch of chapters, but I've actually managed to get him killed before, and when he doesn't get killed, he soaks up all the experience that I want to invest in units I plan to USE later. Units that, for me, have consistently turned out well, whether I use the tower of valni or not, like Lute and Neimi. You can argue all you want, but they always work out for me... so I'd rather they get exp, not seth, who only gets like 3 exp per kill anyway. Plus, there's Eirika to think about in the REALLY early levels. However, just because I don't get how you people think and enjoy the game doesn't mean we have to continue arguing about it. There is no "right way to play" nor is there a "right way to judge characters". Everyone has a right to their own opinions and judgements, and in this case I have to say that I do not like to use Seth much.

I actually used to have this opinion myself, but then I saw his overall utility. Give him a try sometime.

Even without using him seriously in earlygame, he's still good later on, with some of the best growths of the Paladins combined with good base stats. (He has Kyle's Strength and Forde's Speed) At base he is much better than an empty slot.

Seth will have a 99.99999999% of not dying in earlygame. (The .00000000001 is the Halberd fighter in Ch.6 HM.) If you have him rescue someone and use a slim weapon he can also help soften up enemies for Lute/Neimi/insert underleveled unit here. Plus, he's clutch for getting the Ch. 9 Rapier and finishing the very dangerous Ch. 6 fast.

And, if you really hate him, he makes good Stone/Demon Surge bait.

[Luna]

Can I just clear up that Joe only showed you 2 quotes from an argument we had that spanned, perhaps, 2 hours? I have used Seth many, many times, and only recently stopped using him because I feel he detracts from my team. Yes, he can beat the whole game, but for me, he has consistently turned out mediocre by that point, even when I get him to level 20. I concede that he is a great character, especially in the beginning, but I also maintain that as the game progresses, his value steadily decreases. I would also like to submit that I have played through the game without using the tower of valni to level grind, and using seth as much as possible, and I have remained able to consistently make characters that are regarded as useless apparently, such as Lute, Natasha, Marisa, and Neimi the best characters on my team. I apologize that we can't meet eye to eye, but this is how I see it, and you may think I'm a mediocre player of fire emblem for saying so, but I don't even get the point of playing the game "efficiently". Why rush? Why not slow down and enjoy the game a while? If I want to slow down and cultivate characters to the extent that they outclass Seth to the nth degree, I can do that, and I don't deserve arguments and crap about what I think is right or wrong and what all of you think is right or wrong. Maybe personal experience doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. Why shouldn't it matter? Just because statistics say seth should turn out such and such a way doesn't mean he will. Personally, he's turned out good to mediocre. For you he could turn out excellent or worse than crap. To be honest, I can't see why personal experience isn't worth anything either. Of course, all of you completely understand all of this, so I can predict a million different responses to this in favor of efficiency and against personal experience... >_<

[Darros]

Can I just clear up that Joe only showed you 2 quotes from an argument we had that spanned, perhaps, 2 hours? I have used Seth many, many times, and only recently stopped using him because I feel he detracts from my team. Yes, he can beat the whole game, but for me, he has consistently turned out mediocre by that point, even when I get him to level 20.

Become familiar with PEMN :/

I concede that he is a great character, especially in the beginning, but I also maintain that as the game progresses, his value steadily decreases.

Not true. He is useful throughout even in HM.

This is FE8, the easiest game.

I would also like to submit that I have played through the game without using the tower of valni to level grind, and using seth as much as possible, and I have remained able to consistently make characters that are regarded as useless apparently, such as Lute, Natasha, Marisa, and Neimi the best characters on my team.

A] PEMN

B] Since when are they considered bad?

I apologize that we can't meet eye to eye, but this is how I see it, and you may think I'm a mediocre player of fire emblem for saying so, but I don't even get the point of playing the game "efficiently". Why rush? Why not slow down and enjoy the game a while? If I want to slow down and cultivate characters to the extent that they outclass Seth to the nth degree, I can do that, and I don't deserve arguments and crap about what I think is right or wrong and what all of you think is right or wrong. Maybe personal experience doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. Why shouldn't it matter? Just because statistics say seth should turn out such and such a way doesn't mean he will.

Play how you want, it doesn't make Seth suck at all. And we never said effeciency at all.

Personally, he's turned out good to mediocre. For you he could turn out excellent or worse than crap. To be honest, I can't see why personal experience isn't worth anything either. Of course, all of you completely understand all of this, so I can predict a million different responses to this in favor of efficiency and against personal experience... >_<

PEMN.. :/

[Thor Odinson]

Yes, he can beat the whole game, but for me, he has consistently turned out mediocre by that point, even when I get him to level 20.

It doesn't take much for him to literally beat the whole game by himself. Even with stats below his averages, given FE8's difficulty or therelackof, cap-ramming doesn't matter at all (and honestly, it doesn't take much blessing for Seth to cap-ram STR anyway).

It's easy enough for him to solo most the game with only 12 speed (that is, 24÷2---with Eirika rescued especially in the later times when her bases will get her OHKO'd), what do you mean, mediocrity?

Or maybe you S-ranked his lances. Audhulma is much better for him IMO. It does wonders.

I give that I, as SF's representative Seth fangirl, has done his solorun twice- once for the lulz to see how badly he destroys everything, and another more serious one on HM.

Not using him, again, is complete fine since he is fully capable of easily soloing the game thus destroying any sort of difficulty FE8 ever possibly had, but calling him mediocre? That's just... not right.

[Luna]

Sorry if I misunderstood, but I'm basing my counter argument on the argument joe presented, which was all about: efficiency, and proving to me that the units I listed were horrible. T_T Also, I'm unfamiliar with the term PEMN, could you please clarify that for me? Also, to Luminescent Blade, I clarified that I admit he is a great character, and that he simply turned out good to mediocre for me consistently, and I have also reached the conclusion that the majority of you care little for personal experience so... I didn't think that point would hold much weight for you... >_< sorry.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Luna

[Thor Odinson]

PEMN-Personal Experience Means nothing.

Let's say, you get extremely lucky in the string of RNs and a character with 20 for all his/her growths decides to cap-ram everything by 20/10. For you, that character might just be godly, but in truth, that's a crappy character and won't turn out the same, statistically, for anybody else unless they did exactly the same steps that you did to get the same string of RN.

Therefore, when we compare characters, we take into account their availability, average/mode stats at given levels, jointime, and utility. It's the only way that's fair for all.

With Seth's average stats, he can solo the game. I got a fairly average Seth on my HM solorun (not the lulz run. He went overboard and got uberblessed which was hilarious and adds to the overkill factor) and he was able to easily waltz his way through most of the game.

Enemies really aren't all that threatening in FE8.

Holy shit I didn't go into rage mode. What

Edited December 3, 2010 by Luminescent Blade

[Luna]

Yeah. Exactly the kind of reaction I would expect... well, I apologize for regarding Personal Experience as important, because I have never had anyone to compare characters with to a great extent until now... and I doubt much of that is going to change because I'm still gonna like characters I like and regard them as good characters even if they aren't because they have yet to actually let me down. Also, if your average Seth did that well, my Seths must have been screwed or something... o_O Seriously. My Level 20 Seth couldn't stand up to the demon king...even with Audhulma... (I specifically remember giving it to him) I had to kill him with Ephraim and Myrrh... and that's personal experience so I guess it means nothing huh? T.T'

[Thor Odinson]

My average Seth hit DK with a 4% critical and solo'd the bastard. But PEMN.

It's completely fine if you like characters just for the sake of liking characters--there's nothing wrong with that. I like some characters just because they're hot. Haha.

Probably. His growths are actually excellent. Total growths adds up to 320 and are well-spread out (he has the third highest DEF growth, too!) , while most characters have around 300 or even less.

If he gets oneshotted by DK, that's some serious stat screwage. And if you train Eirika and Ephraim, DK can be downed in one turn with Eiri-Eph-Seth pseudo-triangle attack even if nobody crits.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Luminescent Blade

[Darros]

There's a difference between using characters you like and using characters you like and expecting them to be the Same each time.

[Florete]

he soaks up all the experience that I want to invest in units I plan to USE later.

Please read this post.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions and judgements, and in this case I have to say that I do not like to use Seth much.

As far as I can tell, no one has stated that that specifically is a problem. I said the same thing myself.

I have remained able to consistently make characters that are regarded as useless apparently, such as Lute, Natasha, Marisa, and Neimi the best characters on my team.

Since when are Lute and Natasha considered useless? Even Neimi isn't exactly terrible. Marisa sucks, though, but being FE8 no one is truly hard to use.

I apologize that we can't meet eye to eye, but this is how I see it, and you may think I'm a mediocre player of fire emblem for saying so, but I don't even get the point of playing the game "efficiently". Why rush? Why not slow down and enjoy the game a while?

People have their own way of playing. If you want to do what makes it fun for you, that's fine. But some people like to play (and judge) in a way that puts characters to their full potential.

Maybe personal experience doesn't matter to you, but it does to me. Why shouldn't it matter? Just because statistics say seth should turn out such and such a way doesn't mean he will.

Your Seth turned out awful.

Mine capped every stat.

How are we determine whether Seth is merely okay or amazing now? That's why average stats exist, and why PEMN. Averages are there to determine the most likely outcome of a character, and so that is what must be used to judge units reasonably, as opposed to personal experience which can just go anywhere. It doesn't mean Seth will turn out so good, but that can go both ways; he can be better or worse.

Personally, he's turned out good to mediocre. For you he could turn out excellent or worse than crap. To be honest, I can't see why personal experience isn't worth anything either.

You pretty much just explained why personal experience is worthless.

[Luna]

My average Seth hit DK with a 4% critical and solo'd the bastard. But PEMN.

That's epic to be honest. But I have horrible luck on these games so that would never work for me. Somehow, Seth always manages to get stat screwed when I use him, so I stopped using him... I have seriously had him level up twice and get no growths at all in a playthrough before. >_< I think I just have crap luck with the characters that are supposed to turn out great and good luck with the ones that are apparently crap or something.

[Thor Odinson]

It was the perfect finish to his solorun.

Well, if we assume true RNG, which it isn't---you can't really create true randomness, but merely a string of pre-generated numbers that gets created from a mathematical algorithm---

the chances of Seth getting no stat up on any given level up, without capped stats, are:

(.1x.5x.55x.55x.75x.6x.7)=0.00476=.4%

The chances of that happening twice is extremely slim. Sorry man.

Seth is the only person whose growths I completely memorized.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Luminescent Blade