Drafting Tournaments Explained

[Integrity]

finally discussion on this thing

@Crashmann, Clipsety: Done and done.

[Bluedoom]

Drafting of my Draft- Radiant Dawn, Hard Mode Style, is finished.

[Baldrick]

@Darros: Wait, what the fuck somebody got Levin!Tiltyu in a DRAFTING BY PROXY game? How retarded were your drafters?

Well, it was a collaboration draft, and Claude had already been drafted, so Fury had no other viable husbands... With Lach and Briggid, I'd already given up any hope of actually winning it, so why not try and make it a three horse race rather than a two horse race?

[Integrity]

Well, it was a collaboration draft, and Claude had already been drafted, so Fury had no other viable husbands... With Lach and Briggid, I'd already given up any hope of actually winning it, so why not try and make it a three horse race rather than a two horse race?

Wait wait wait HOLD IT.

None like, uh, Noish? Lex? Fuck, even Beowulf?

And after a quick look, yeah, 2/3 of those were still available.

"I'm bitter about my team, so let's go and give somebody else a gamebreaker. Whee!"

;/

@blues: I'll get to that in an hour.

[Baldrick]

By that logic, Arden/Fury and Jamka/Fury are also good pairings.

Why would I be bitter? It's my own fault I ended up with Briggid.

[Bluedoom]

Arden/Fury is obviously too bad to try. Heck, Lex/Fury has Elite and Def growth, you know.

[Baldrick]

Elite isn't doing much on Sety. Arden can buy a Shield Ring with the 20 grand in his pocket.

[Integrity]

By that logic, Arden/Fury and Jamka/Fury are also good pairings.

Hahaha, what? You're talking to Mister Fee here, sir. I've tried a lot of Fury pairings.

It's not all about Sety. Sety is absolutely unfuckable. It's about how much the dad contributes to Fee and - frankly - Noish and Lex contribute a LOT to her.

Even so, what precisely is bad about throwing Critical and Charge on Sety?

EDIT: @blues: RD HM draft in the logs, sir. I do want to congratulate you on having a beautiful copyable setup there - I like it when people mirror my style. Makes my job easier.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Integrity

[Elieson]

So basically it's Fe11 again.

The thing is, everyone can get those staves, everyone can use them. The person (MEMEMEMEALLTHETIME) who drafts malliesia, faces an immediate 6 turns extra, getting her, and her faraway staff. She makes up for it still, but it isn't overpowered. IS balanced that.

Why should feena not be able to dance for marth? Lalum & Elphin etc get to do that all the time. Feena is usable by everyone right now, because if she was draftable, that person would automatically win. The again staff has only 3 uses, you get two of them. That's six uses, and max 12 for hammerne (i'm not counting the stupid to get pre final chapter staff btw) . Since hammerne + malicia costs 6 turns, she equals that out. Hammerne-ing again staves doesn't help saving turns. You'd only make up for malicia's cost. Everyone can get the again staves, they aren't that hard to get, you even have a thief staff with entire map range to get them. It's level E or D btw, so a bishop can wield it. And why should we not be able to cast again on marth? It helps to recruit people who have matthis syndrome, like samson on sheema, instead of having to endure an attack of samson, marth can get agained, and recruit them both immeiately, saving a stupid scenario where sheema can't reach samson. The again staff also doesn't give marth infinite range, he gets 9 extra move out of it. Not an entire map, which is why warping marth is banned. Banning either feena or the again staff is ridiculous, since neither give marth the entire map as his playground, and both have problems. Feena has trouble keeping up with marth and is frail, she hates ballistae. The again staff has only 3 uses.

So we're equating efficiency for draft runs by using the Again staff to effectively recruit characters, while at the same time, it can be just as easily used to reduce your final turncount by 3 (or more, if it's hammerne'd).

Feena may have trouble keeping up with Marth, but gosh, she can essentially ensure Marth an easy -1 turn here and there, for those that have her. Why don't we just warp Feena along with Marth, and have her dance for him here and there as well. If we're running Feena as free, then everyone gets a fair chance to utilize her to dance, but certainly, not if she's draftable.

Warp and rescue:

Let me begin with that there is nothing wrong with the current rules that have been transferred from fe11, and the added rescue rule is ok as well. I'd like to see added to that the prohibiting of staff chains, which I explained earlier. The thing is: This is a new game with old rules, things work different here, if something is different, you shouldn't ban it because it doesn't fit with your current image of good (fe11), but analyze it and see what needs to happen. If it's deemed to broken, then it can be banned. The same happened with the RD penalties system. It had non standard penalties for a long time, after that, people decided it didn't work quite as well as they wanted, and the standard penalties were introduced, with exceptions for certain chapters.

Warping marth is overpowered, clear case, it gives marth infinite range, and then he can still move his ass somewhere. Warping a rescue user to rescue marth has the same effect. Warping a rescue user to rescue the warper who then rescues marth has the same effect. And the chain begins. So ban rescue chains at least. Banning warp on marth is good. We need warp however, for other characters. Tiki would love to become a wyvern, wyvernstones can only be gotten by use of warp. Etc. So just no warping marth. Other units may benefit from it in different ways.

I agree with the prohibition of staff chains. Completely legit point there, because it's a loophole. Rescue can essentially do the same thing, in similar situations. Take chapter 4, for instance. You can cast Rescue on Marth, and have him and the team up north (Ogma, Yubello, Sirius, and Yumina on her next turn) all rush to the castle. OR, you could rescue anybody else, and have Marth still path his way to the sieze point, like he would if it were banned in its entirety. Granted, if Yumina is free, then you could just use rescue, as could anybody, but you're giving Marth other opportunities to do other things, and just bringing him back into the team's flow. The only time I could see it being allowed is in chapter 4, when everyone literally has a 100% equal opportunity to use it. After that, it's entirely dependent on who you recruit.And you can see in my suggestion, that banning Warp/Rescue/Again on Marth alone, would still allow say, Tiki, to get her stones. Warping Julian to treasure doesn't affect how quickly Marth can get to the throne (well, it can, in an indirect way).

Warp and rescue:

Then we have rescue... The use of rescue determines how effective it is. For use on marth that is. Again staves on marth are staightforward, warp on marth is as well. Rescue however, is influenced by what marth has to do. And a lot of strategies rely on it right now, strategies that everyone can utilize. We need to get Virgo, a starshard, minerva has it, so marth has to go to her village, everyone with E staves can go for the seize while he does that, and rescue marth. This can save like... three turns? Rescue can be used for a 1 turn of chapter 6, it saves only one turn there. The use of Rescue determines the impact it has on a turncount.

Alright, I understand. Rescue certainly does impact the turncount. So, we can have Marth do things unrelated to siezing, and just rescue him back over to the sieze point, eliminating the turn-count detriment from getting stuck with turn-sucking units, or having to reach items. That would allow characters to be recruited essentially for free (or, at an significant cost reduction; see as early as Cord, Bord, etc. In that arguement, why don't we just allow warp-skipping for certain chapters, since it's just as easy?

[Vicious Sal]

So we're equating efficiency for draft runs by using the Again staff to effectively recruit characters, while at the same time, it can be just as easily used to reduce your final turncount by 3 (or more, if it's hammerne'd).

You get one hammerne staff that is usable, you need malicia for it, READ my post. Hammerne'ing again staves has no point, If you hammerne the again staff three times, you only eliminate the cost of getting it in the first place. The again staff with or without hammerne does not change a turncount in the end. It only adds 6 turns in earlygame, and removes 6 extra lategame. If we go for the trouble of getting the second hammerne, which is in a place you need warp for, a dangerous place, and can only be used the final chapter(since you won't be using it on that small peninsula where it's located). I highly doubt that it will be used. You also can't thief staff that hammerne, an enemy stands on the chest.

Feena may have trouble keeping up with Marth, but gosh, she can essentially ensure Marth an easy -1 turn here and there, for those that have her. Why don't we just warp Feena along with Marth, and have her dance for him here and there as well. If we're running Feena as free, then everyone gets a fair chance to utilize her to dance, but certainly, not if she's draftable.

So you agrre with me there, correct, I am against Feena being draftable, I stated that, Feena sould either be free for all, or banned, because draftable makes her a gamebreaker.

I agree with the prohibition of staff chains. Completely legit point there, because it's a loophole. Rescue can essentially do the same thing, in similar situations. Take chapter 4, for instance. You can cast Rescue on Marth, and have him and the team up north (Ogma, Yubello, Sirius, and Yumina on her next turn) all rush to the castle. OR, you could rescue anybody else, and have Marth still path his way to the sieze point, like he would if it were banned in its entirety. Granted, if Yumina is free, then you could just use rescue, as could anybody, but you're giving Marth other opportunities to do other things, and just bringing him back into the team's flow. The only time I could see it being allowed is in chapter 4, when everyone literally has a 100% equal opportunity to use it. After that, it's entirely dependent on who you recruit.And you can see in my suggestion, that banning Warp/Rescue/Again on Marth alone, would still allow say, Tiki, to get her stones. Warping Julian to treasure doesn't affect how quickly Marth can get to the throne (well, it can, in an indirect way).

Thanks for that agreement. Yumina is free for that chapter. Everyone can rescue him. I reiterate: The rescue staff is LEVEL E. Any unit in the game, reclassed to cleric or curate or sage or whatever can use it. Even in drafts, you can take a useless scrub to use it, or just reclass your MU for one chapter if you need it. THe fact is... We get: Malicia, Linde (She's better off A staves and instant aura after promo), Yumina, Yubello, etc etc, there are loads of magic units that can do this and still have magic based growths. And if you for an unfathomable way do not get a single magic user, hey, let's reclass warren, he hasn't done much, he has E staves as a curate, he can use rescue!

I saw that it was marth only that you wanted the ban for, The stones are secret shop btw, but that aside. If you read my post, you can see i'm am against warp on marth, because it gives him infinite range. None of the other staves do that. Again with or without hammerne has no turn difference, so everyone should be able to use it, even on marth. It's fair game for everyone. And it's stupid if you don't draft a staff user. BEcause they are just that damn needed in this game. Even without these staves, fortify, thief staff, physic, you name it, it's helpful. Rescue should be fair game as well, it's Weapon LEvel E, so every unit in the game can use it without staff training. I do not know about you, but I think that since it is level E, there is a 100% chance that every person in a draft can use it.

Alright, I understand. Rescue certainly does impact the turncount. So, we can have Marth do things unrelated to siezing, and just rescue him back over to the sieze point, eliminating the turn-count detriment from getting stuck with turn-sucking units, or having to reach items. That would allow characters to be recruited essentially for free (or, at an significant cost reduction; see as early as Cord, Bord, etc. In that arguement, why don't we just allow warp-skipping for certain chapters, since it's just as easy?

Cord doesn't cost turns. Bord costs three. And yes, why should that be a problem? It means bord would be among the suckiest characters in the game because he will always cost turns. But every recruit after that can be recruited free of penalties or at least minimize the recruitment cost. And everyone can do that.

G2g, work, i'll come back to this later.

[Baldrick]

Hahaha, what? You're talking to Mister Fee here, sir. I've tried a lot of Fury pairings.

It's not all about Sety. Sety is absolutely unfuckable. It's about how much the dad contributes to Fee and - frankly - Noish and Lex contribute a LOT to her.

Even so, what precisely is bad about throwing Critical and Charge on Sety?

I forgot Fury had a daughter. I withdraw my statement concerning Ardan/Fury.

[Darros]

Wait wait wait HOLD IT.

None like, uh, Noish? Lex? Fuck, even Beowulf?

lolBeowulfFury.

All he gives is Charge. Sety gets a 5% magic growth, no inheritance, and Fee is pretty much set anyway..

Charge is nice, and Fee's stats will be good (not superiour to other Fees though IIRC), but the drawbacks are probably worse than the benefits.

[13th]

Archanean version of that crazy bastard Radiant Dragon's brainchild. 
1: [b]13th[b]: Caeda, Minerva, Arran, Wendell, Roger, Jeorge, Dolph.| Frey, Hardin, Michalis, Maria, Bantu
2: blues: Cain, Julian, Navarre, Beck, Etzel, Macellan, Midia| Cecille, Yumina, Leiden, Elice, Tiki
3: Vicious Sal: Draug, Merric, Caesar, Jake, Matthis, Wolf, Sedgar,| Malliesia, Norne, Dice, Robert, Samson
4: PKL: Barst, Palla, Radd, Castor, Athena, Ymir, Vyland,| Ryan, Yubello, Belf, Boah, Lorenz
5: eclipse: Ogma, Gordin, Horace, Darros, Bord, Roshea, Tomas,| Luke, Ellerean, Warren, Frost, Sheema
6: Wen/Kopfjager: Catria, Abel, Linde, Cord, Wrys, Est, Astram,| Rody, Lena, Malice, Samto, Katarina

We have finished drafting

[General Horace]

Integ, forgot to mention this, but I made an error in SOYO draft III, which I cleared in 234 turns, it should be 235, as I got 20 turns instead of 19 on chapter 6.

[Integrity]

Both are in, cheers and cheers.

[Thor Odinson]

lolBeowulfFury.

All he gives is Charge. Sety gets a 5% magic growth, no inheritance, and Fee is pretty much set anyway..

Charge is nice, and Fee's stats will be good (not superiour to other Fees though IIRC), but the drawbacks are probably worse than the benefits.

Sety still got his base mag and auto B staff rank. Worst comes to worst he heals like a pro.

[Shin]

Sety still got his base mag and auto B staff rank. Worst comes to worst he heals like a pro.

Don't forget his multihitting powers! With roughly 30 attack with Lightning per hit, he's got a fair chance of killing physical units.

[Integrity]

lolBeowulfFury.

All he gives is Charge. Sety gets a 5% magic growth, no inheritance, and Fee is pretty much set anyway..

Charge is nice, and Fee's stats will be good (not superiour to other Fees though IIRC), but the drawbacks are probably worse than the benefits.

*ahem* missed this.

Fee actually benefits (slightly) from Beowulf's STR growth. She's barely above a handful of others - Midir, Dew, Holyn, etc - who produce Fees with solid stats but don't provide any meaningful skills.

But I never meant Beowulf!Fee as a OMG MUST GET Fury pairing - that was reserved for the other two, Noish and Lex, who do produce superior Fees.

And ANY of those listed plus, like, Jamka!Fee are better fighters than Claude!Fee, who passes down only good MAG/RES growths and B Staves. I still hold it to be a good pairing for exactly that reason, but the original comment was that, I quote, "...Fury had no other viable husbands."

[Baldrick]

OK, I did exaggerate the situation... But, Levin/Fury is the best pairing. And the draft by that point had become a standard draft, only with somebody else playing your team.

[Integrity]

OK, I did exaggerate the situation... But, Levin/Fury is the best pairing.

For a draft, frankly, it's arguable. Holesty is amazing, sure, but Fee's contributions prior to Sety even showing up mean quite a bit, AND Sety himself without Holsety is still an amazing unit. Holsety's almost overkill.

*almost*.

[Baldrick]

I've never played Gen 2 in an FE4 draft before. What exactly is Fee doing that would require more power/durability?

[13th]

I uh... messed up the HTML in the post for my draft. I forgot the / in the closing of my bold tags.

[Integrity]

haha didn't notice.

Fixing that now.

[Whitefang]

I finished #29088, FE7 Kam's Cluster Draft, in 236 turns. 245 turns!

I can't add numbers. I thought it looked wrong. 245 is definitely the final count.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Whitefang

[MacLovin]

1.Second Pronoun-Florina,Will, Pent, Isadora, Louise,Harken.

2.Baldrick. Sain, Prissy, HEath. Canas Rath,Farina

3.Me. Lowen. Fiora, Lucius, Legault, Hawkeye, Guy.

4.Bolting.Kent, Dorcas, Matthew, Raven, Jaffar, Vaida

5.Rapier .Serra and Erk ,Oswin, Bartre+Karla , Rebecca, Dart

Drafting done- FE7 HNM+LHM.