How do u manage to make the DB good?

[PuffPuff]

You should really ignore people who write about their kickass edward, because most of the time they're playing on easy mode, where everyone is usable, and you can battle save abuse, and it's really not all that impressive.

Exactly. But in Hard Mode, you are limited to using a certain number of units than usual due to the face of awful EXP gains and lowest Bonus EXP.

They also level up alot faster than the Mercs, and pemn but imo both are a lot more worth raising than most of the Mercs.

All thanks to the Laguz, who are worth alot of experience.

Notice a trend? You've got a lot of units who need a lot of experience to be good. There simply isn't enough to give to everyone, short of major boss abuse.

Indeed. You should use units that already have good base stats like Nolan, Zihark, Sothe (though he sucks terribly at endgame), and Taureneo. Only folks worth using for the lots of EXP are Jill, Micaiah (Because she's forced in every map in her chapters), and Meg.

Edited January 21, 2011 by Wilhelmina

[Vicious Sal]

Maybe a bump, but part 1 is my favorite part. :3

For me:

Sell almost ALL weapons and stuff that isn't important. You could get around 40.000 gold from that. (Don't sell paragon and stat boosters and the like ofc. =D ) I only buy bronze weapons, give them to Zihark, aran, jill, fiona (she's awsm. =D) Edward, Sothe and well, people I want to use. Micaiah (who defies the RNG goddess by maxing def & speed often o.o ) and Ilyana (Who completely caps everything more often than not o.O) i just train with basic tomes. And Paragon is being smacked on zihark for me btw. After that, i battle my way, and in Umono prison camp, i boss abuse till everyone is third tier. (As soon as they hit it, I stop, because of mastery skills.) After that, i breeze through my game, and kick the Greil mercenaries. Except Mia, she does not deserve to be kicked. (Huge trueblade fan and Lancer (excpet danved D=<) fan here. ;o)

[Yuglyoshi]

That's terrible advice.

[Smiley Jim]

Here's my own advice on how to make the Dawn Brigade useable, if not good:

-Like many people said, only focus on three unpromoted dudes at a time. EXP is really limited in part 1, and you have very little BEXP even if you are playing efficiently.

-Do not overuse any Jeigan type characters, as you have hungry unpromoted mouths to feed.

-Use your stat boosters when you need them. A stat booster can mean the difference between a bad unit and a good unit.

-Use your BEXP conservatively. If possible, put some guys at 99EXP, and reset at the beginning of a chapter until a character gets a decent level up(in NM, you can do the same with Battle saves).

-Many people said this already, but in part 3, use Paragon to full effect. FYI, I managed to get Face-Tanker from 20/3 to 20/13, with BROlan not too far behind at 20/8. Jill Valentine was also at BROlan's level.

-Remember that BROlan, Bishie, and Face-Tanker get OP'd Prfs in part 3. And give forges to people who need them.

And most importantly.

People who you should use:

Miccy Sue, Belly shirt, Face-Tanker, BROlan, Captain Abs™, furry, Jill Valentine

People who you should not waste your time on:

Bishie, lolra, Tapeworm, Samus, Cow, Fiona

Jeigans:

Taur, Shorts, Muraim, Vika, Nailah, Burger King

And yes, I used most of Smash's nicknames, except for Leo's, which I made up myself.

Edited February 11, 2011 by DA125

[RNG Princess]

It depends to what type of gameplay the player wants really my own advice would be if you're playing inefficiently its fair game for any character. Spoonfeeding is important for any of the non-jeigans, especially for Fiona. Forges are important use them. Weapon and BEXP distribution use them to your advantage.

If the player is playing more efficiently:

Jill gives the best output along with Nolan after that the best bet is Edward Aran's speed sucks.

Jeigans are pretty much mandatory, Volug's strike is also important so give him many kills.

Definitely try to avoid using Fiona for combat at least Meg has access to brave sword and has better hit.

Certain characters have roles they do best so definitely use them for that (like Vika Ferrying, Laura healing, Aran shoving).

Ilyana is better off not trained seriously

Fiona's only non-penalty chapter in Part 1 is 1-7 where she can ferry.

Edited February 11, 2011 by Queen_Elincia

[Vicious Sal]

That's terrible advice.

Aw, too bad that wasn't asked for. >_>

The title clearly states "how do YOU (Fyi, that does also applicate on me) manage to make the Db good" I think iv'e done that quite well don't you think?

*Did not read the first post, don't nag about whatever is stated in there. >_>*

[nflchamp]

Aw, too bad that wasn't asked for. >_>

The title clearly states "how do YOU (Fyi, that does also applicate on me) manage to make the Db good" I think iv'e done that quite well don't you think?

*Did not read the first post, don't nag about whatever is stated in there. >_>*

The title actually asks for advice, namely from people who accomplished it in the past. Or rather, the title question is really just 'Help me, I need help making my Dawn Brigade good,' stated in a way that doesn't make it sound like you're conceited and demanding.

Also, get used to at least reading the OP and, more times, recent discussion if you don't want people to nag you to do it. As far as I'm concerned, you should at least have the courtesy to read the OP.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Are you kidding me? In part 3 Volug is much better without Wildheart simply due to having way better stats when you full shift. Wildheart is part of the reason some people think Volug isn't so good in part 3 (they halfshift instead of full shift and so he's not as good). If you aren't going to ever use halfshift then there's no real point in having it, so you might as well take it off of him.

In terms of leaving it on, wouldn't it still beneficial to have the option to retain some semblance of workable combat if gauge unexpectedly runs out?

[Loki Laufeyson]

Sell almost ALL weapons and stuff that isn't important. You could get around 40.000 gold from that. (Don't sell paragon and stat boosters and the like ofc. =D ) I only buy bronze weapons, give them to Zihark, aran, jill, fiona (she's awsm. =D) Edward, Sothe and well, people I want to use. Micaiah (who defies the RNG goddess by maxing def & speed often o.o ) and Ilyana (Who completely caps everything more often than not o.O) i just train with basic tomes. And Paragon is being smacked on zihark for me btw. After that, i battle my way, and in Umono prison camp, i boss abuse till everyone is third tier. (As soon as they hit it, I stop, because of mastery skills.) After that, i breeze through my game, and kick the Greil mercenaries. Except Mia, she does not deserve to be kicked. (Huge trueblade fan and Lancer (excpet danved D=<) fan here. ;o)

What is this i dont even. While im all for playing the way i feel like, thats not gonna solve the OPs conundrum. Boss abuse is bad if someone is going for efficient play. (also Micaiah maxing out speed and defense is lol)

Anyway i do agree that one must train only a couple of DBers at a time. Like Elincia said, Nolan, Jill, Edwardovich and maybe Zihark.

If the player is playing more efficiently:

Jill gives the best output along with Nolan after that the best bet is Edward Aran's speed sucks.

Jeigans are pretty much mandatory, Volug's strike is also important so give him many kills.

Definitely try to avoid using Fiona for combat at least Meg has access to brave sword and has better hit.

Certain characters have roles they do best so definitely use them for that (like Vika Ferrying, Laura healing, Aran shoving).

Ilyana is better off not trained seriously

I do love Fiona though and do go out of my way to train her especially if Jill ends up on the GM side. But yeah, if you want a good DB team, having Jill defect is kinda out anyway. Using Meg isnt a good idea either. She becomes a liability more than a boon. Paragon abuse. :)

Ilyana is just...dont bother. If you really like her, i guess go ahead but ehhhh guys like Aran could benefit more. Dont bother too much with Laura. She will always lag unless you dump BEXP in her. (why you would wanna do that in any mode other than easy is anyones guess.)

[CT075]

Aw, too bad that wasn't asked for. >_>

The title clearly states "how do YOU (Fyi, that does also applicate on me) manage to make the Db good" I think iv'e done that quite well don't you think?

*Did not read the first post, don't nag about whatever is stated in there. >_>*

Too bad. If you're gonna be a member here, A) learn not to be an arrogant prick (we've already had two of those >_>, B) learn how to use grammar, and C) READ THE GODDAMN OP.

@bolded: If someone asks a question, and someone gives the wrong answer, is it really that bad to tell the other person it's wrong?

[Vicious Sal]

Too bad. If you're gonna be a member here, A) learn not to be an arrogant prick (we've already had two of those >_>, B) learn how to use grammar, and C) READ THE GODDAMN OP.

@bolded: If someone asks a question, and someone gives the wrong answer, is it really that bad to tell the other person it's wrong?

Hmmm, still more than two imo, if the first reply to someone is "that's terrible advice" that is just new here. As for grammar, well, sorry, i'm only twelve years old, scuze me for being someone from the Netherlands who is writing English, while not even being on high school. >_>.

And I do not know what OP stands for. In case you mean the first post, well, i've read it, and the last question interests me. He/She is amazed that people get the DB to third tier, well, i've shared my advice, and it DIRECTLY answers the question in the first post. Also, don't swear and Caps Lock please, others might be offended.

As for the bolded advice, hmm, why did you not adress yugiyoshi for doing something very similar. >_>

Anyway, I've dumped my two cents here, and the rotten pocket change that you "forced" me to dump here. I'm quiting this argument, Serenes forums has definetely shown it's best welcoming tactics. >_>

[Anouleth]

In terms of leaving it on, wouldn't it still beneficial to have the option to retain some semblance of workable combat if gauge unexpectedly runs out?

Why would gauge ever unexpectedly run out? Volug does not have an especially fast gauge, nor is there any reason he can't grass every turn he feels like it (since he virtually never needs to use Player Phase due to the lack of 2-range enemies in Part 3). It is very easy to predict if Volug's gauge will run out.

[nflchamp]

And I do not know what OP stands for.

OP = Original Post

In case you mean the first post, well, i've read it, and the last question interests me. He/She is amazed that people get the DB to third tier, well, i've shared my advice, and it DIRECTLY answers the question in the first post.

Well, you read the last question. Now connect it to the rest of the post. Make the DB good while moving at a relatively quick pace. Your advice no longer answers the question.

Also, don't swear and Caps Lock please, others might be offended.

Coming into a thread, not reading the OP (or anything else), and posting, whether or not it has anything to do with the topic, could be considered offensive not only to the topic creator but to everyone who has posted in response to the topic creator.

[Ciarre]

Maybe a bump, but part 1 is my favorite part. :3

For me:

Sell almost ALL weapons and stuff that isn't important. You could get around 40.000 gold from that. (Don't sell paragon and stat boosters and the like ofc. =D ) I only buy bronze weapons, give them to Zihark, aran, jill, fiona (she's awsm. =D) Edward, Sothe and well, people I want to use. Micaiah (who defies the RNG goddess by maxing def & speed often o.o ) and Ilyana (Who completely caps everything more often than not o.O) i just train with basic tomes. And Paragon is being smacked on zihark for me btw. After that, i battle my way, and in Umono prison camp, i boss abuse till everyone is third tier. (As soon as they hit it, I stop, because of mastery skills.) After that, i breeze through my game, and kick the Greil mercenaries. Except Mia, she does not deserve to be kicked. (Huge trueblade fan and Lancer (excpet danved D=<) fan here. ;o)

Boss abusing is pretty boring though and not necessary for this game. Though it could be fun though to have all these kickass units and kill the GMs in 3-13 but for regular/efficient completion, boss abusing or mostly any other kind of abuse takes a lot of time and turns, but props to you for doing so.

Also, instead of one turning 4-5, you could spend some time in that chapter and kill things using your DB units there.

[I.M. Gei]

Maybe a bump, but part 1 is my favorite part. :3

For me:

Sell almost ALL weapons and stuff that isn't important. You could get around 40.000 gold from that. (Don't sell paragon and stat boosters and the like ofc. =D ) I only buy bronze weapons, give them to Zihark, aran, jill, fiona (she's awsm. =D) Edward, Sothe and well, people I want to use. Micaiah (who defies the RNG goddess by maxing def & speed often o.o ) and Ilyana (Who completely caps everything more often than not o.O) i just train with basic tomes. And Paragon is being smacked on zihark for me btw. After that, i battle my way, and in Umono prison camp, i boss abuse till everyone is third tier. (As soon as they hit it, I stop, because of mastery skills.) After that, i breeze through my game, and kick the Greil mercenaries. Except Mia, she does not deserve to be kicked. (Huge trueblade fan and Lancer (excpet danved D=<) fan here. ;o)

This is why PEMN. Ilyana could have amazing stats across the board, or she could have 16 SPD as a level 1 Archsage. What usually happens is that she has awful speed and defenses. And seriously, Fiona? Ilyana and Fiona over Nolan? The fact you have to waste dozens upon dozens of turns just making a crappy character even usable just goes to show just how horrible they are.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Pet Pikachu

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Why would gauge ever unexpectedly run out? Volug does not have an especially fast gauge, nor is there any reason he can't grass every turn he feels like it (since he virtually never needs to use Player Phase due to the lack of 2-range enemies in Part 3). It is very easy to predict if Volug's gauge will run out.

Because you might need to self-heal or finish a weakened enemy and or otherwise think a unit who doesn't really do anything on player phase is lame?

[Anouleth]

Because you might need to self-heal or finish a weakened enemy and or otherwise think a unit who doesn't really do anything on player phase is lame?

-That's what dedicated healers are for.

-Volug can eat everything on enemy phase and doesn't leave much alive anyway.

-You think that a unit with the best concrete durability and avoid available to you, with the best offense on the team, is lame?

In addition, a lack of player phase is a problem faced by other Dawn Brigade units, although in their case, it's more that they can't afford to take a counter attack because it would leave them on low HP in enemy phase.

Volug does not even have to use Olivi Grass that often. If Volug faces three enemies per turn, then he spends almost all of his time grassing. However, most other DB units cannot face three enemies per turn just because it would kill them to take such a risk. Even if you factor in that they can fight a third time on player phase (assuming we heal them before and after), they are at most matching Volug, and usually losing, and when you take into account that Volug has perhaps the best raw offense on the team, he is clearly your strongest character.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

-That's what dedicated healers are for.

Since Micaiah/Laura are probably underleveled, they'll be healing in the 20's with physic, which heals at a deficit after just 3 halb attacks in 3-12, for example. Besides that, physicing Volug can force someone else to use a healing item and take away their player phase.

-Volug can eat everything on enemy phase and doesn't leave much alive anyway.

Tigers, generals, and a few 2-rangers, conservatively two out of five enemies he's facing and also the hardest hitting.

-You think that a unit with the best concrete durability and avoid available to you, with the best offense on the team, is lame?

I think he's overrated.

In addition, a lack of player phase is a problem faced by other Dawn Brigade units, although in their case, it's more that they can't afford to take a counter attack because it would leave them on low HP in enemy phase.

Finishing weakened enemies/attacking at 2-range.

Volug does not even have to use Olivi Grass that often. If Volug faces three enemies per turn, then he spends almost all of his time grassing. However, most other DB units cannot face three enemies per turn just because it would kill them to take such a risk. Even if you factor in that they can fight a third time on player phase (assuming we heal them before and after), they are at most matching Volug, and usually losing, and when you take into account that Volug has perhaps the best raw offense on the team, he is clearly your strongest character.

What was the original discussion over?

[Anouleth]

Since Micaiah/Laura are probably underleveled, they'll be healing in the 20's with physic, which heals at a deficit after just 3 halb attacks in 3-12, for example. Besides that, physicing Volug can force someone else to use a healing item and take away their player phase.

Yet in 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13, the majority of enemies are 1-range (2-range enemies don't come into play until a couple of turns into 3-12). This means Laura and Micaiah can usually use Mend.

Tigers, generals, and a few 2-rangers, conservatively two out of five enemies he's facing and also the hardest hitting.

Tigers are OHKOed with Beastfoe. Or with Adept and Energy Drop, Volug has a ~45% chance to kill, against both Generals and Tigers.

I think he's overrated.

By all means, tell me who is better in Part 3.

Finishing weakened enemies/attacking at 2-range.

Weakened enemies don't really exist for Beastfoe!Volug.

What was the original discussion over?

You were talking about having Volug retain Wildheart because of his gauge issues. Of course, cutting Volug's offense to less than a half of what it normally is and reducing his durability so that he can have player phase offense smacks of burning down your house to save on heating bills.

[Junkhead]

Maybe a bump, but part 1 is my favorite part. :3

For me:

Sell almost ALL weapons and stuff that isn't important. You could get around 40.000 gold from that. (Don't sell paragon and stat boosters and the like ofc. =D ) I only buy bronze weapons, give them to Zihark, aran, jill, fiona (she's awsm. =D) Edward, Sothe and well, people I want to use. Micaiah (who defies the RNG goddess by maxing def & speed often o.o ) and Ilyana (Who completely caps everything more often than not o.O) i just train with basic tomes.

Troll harder.

By all means, tell me who is better in Part 3.

inb4Nolan&Jill

Edited February 13, 2011 by Junes!

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Yet in 3-6, 3-12, and 3-13, the majority of enemies are 1-range (2-range enemies don't come into play until a couple of turns into 3-12). This means Laura and Micaiah can usually use Mend.

There is also the problem of enemies going around Volug.

Tigers are OHKOed with Beastfoe. Or with Adept and Energy Drop, Volug has a ~45% chance to kill, against both Generals and Tigers.

Resources better used elsewhere.

By all means, tell me who is better in Part 3.

This is like asking if there's anyone better than Mo Williams on the Cleveland Cavaliers.

And what Soul said.

Weakened enemies don't really exist for Beastfoe!Volug.

Well now you're also creating durability problems for Volug (Tiger+Tiger+Cat).

You were talking about having Volug retain Wildheart because of his gauge issues. Of course, cutting Volug's offense to less than a half of what it normally is and reducing his durability so that he can have player phase offense smacks of burning down your house to save on heating bills.

Why does keeping Halfshift imply Halfshift is the first option?

[Anouleth]

There is also the problem of enemies going around Volug.

Then place a unit next to Volug. Are you really so unimaginative that you cannot conceive of a way to protect a frail unit in a chokepoint that is two spaces wide? Of course, if you are saying what I think you are saying, that you leave the ramp on the right hand side wide open for any enemy to simply stroll into at their leisure and OHKO Micaiah, then you probably can't even use Physic because Laura and Micaiah have pretty poor range. I mean, apparently, their magic is between 10 and 15, giving them a range of 5-7. If you're not forming a wall, they are probably going to be at risk.

Resources better used elsewhere.

Yeah, there's Edward... who would rather have Resolve/Cancel, or Zihark... who would rather have Resolve/Cancel, or Jill... who would rather have Paragon, or Sothe... who is using a Beast Killer anyway. Which leaves, like Nolan as a competitive Beastfoe canditate.

I'm not the biggest fan of Energy Drop Volug, but it's certainly a consideration to help out his offense from day 1 all the way into Part 4. Jill is the only person I really consider competition and she is not always in play.

This is like asking if there's anyone better than Mo Williams on the Cleveland Cavaliers.

I would assume then, that Mo Williams has the best offense/defense, since that is what Volug has and I don't know anything else about him.

And what Soul said.

Nolan and Jill have their moments, but keep this in mind:

-Volug is more durable as a level 20/1 Nolan with a full defense support or Dracoshield.

-Volug OHKOes everything on the map with Beastfoe, as does Nolan.

Except that Volug can also take the Energy Drop for +4 attack while Nolan only gets +2 attack.

As for Jill... she just loses to Volug in everything. She doesn't even have good accuracy. Level 20/1 Jill has about the same defense as Volug, but Volug has twenty more HP. He has 8 more skill, 6 more strength and speed as well as a more accurate weapon. Jill eventually becomes good when you sink a bajillion levels into her with Paragon, but before then she's very underwhelming.

Well now you're also creating durability problems for Volug (Tiger+Tiger+Cat).

Tiger + Tiger + Cat kills everyone in the Dawn Brigade. Does that mean we should never use Beastfoe? Of course not.

Why does keeping Halfshift imply Halfshift is the first option?

What else are you going to do with it? The advantage of Wildheart is that if you need to refill your gauge, you can Revert->Halfshift at any point which pumps your gauge back up to 30. This doesn't consume a Player Phase action, so Volug would then be free to eat a Vulnerary or send a Tiger into a fit of laughter by chipping it for 10 damage or run away because suddenly Tigers are 2HKOing and Cats are 3HKOing him. However, laguz mechanics prevent him from using Halfshift to keep him stable when his gauge is low:

All that Wildheart allows you to do is halfshift whenever you want, at any level of gauge, which sets your gauge to 30. When you revert, you take your gauge back down to 0. Obviously, there is no reason for a fully transformed laguz to ever choose to do this, unless he is at a very low level of gauge and worried about untransforming and dying. But even then, it is probably more desirable to just use Olivi Grass, since although Volug gives up a Player Phase to do so, he does about three times as much damage when fully shifted anyway. In addition, if you grow tired of a halfshifted laguz and want to actually kill anything, you need to revert and spent two whole turns gobbling Olivi Grass while untransformed like an idiot to fully transform again. So basically you're stuck with half-Volug for the rest of the chapter, who sucks, to put it frankly.

There is a time and a place for Wildheart - when you want to shove something really badly. Or alternatively, when you need a quick 1000 gold.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Anouleth

[Junkhead]

There is also the problem of enemies going around Volug.

The NPCs usually cockblock one side of to the East. I had that problem you are talking about happen only once, when all NPCs were dead or something.

Resources better used elsewhere.

Nolan just needs Beastfoe. Jill needs Brave Axe + Paragon. Why can't Volug have Adept/Resolve combos when he gives good uses to them?

[Anouleth]

Nolan just needs Beastfoe. Jill needs Brave Axe + Paragon. Why can't Volug have Adept/Resolve combos when he gives good uses to them?

I forgot about Adept + Resolve, but it's a good possibility. Volug has a reasonable shot at B Nolan which gives him like, 121 avoid, which is very good in combination with his already stellar concrete durability. It also increases his Adept proc rate so he now has like 63% chance to proc it in two attacks.

[Junkhead]

Voulg can even go fine without resources and just supports.