Return of the Emblem: Chat

[Phoenix]

UPDATE:

I've finished writing all 28 segments for the opening chapter 8 post. The segments as a whole are just too damn large to all fit in one post. It's impossible. So what I'm going to do is open the chapter with only a set number of segments posted, and you guys can do whatever after that. Once I make the post I will continue editing in one segment at a time until I hit the character limit. When this happens, I'll make a second, third, fourth and so on, and start again ... as many as I need to get them all in there. Should only take three if my estimate is right.

As for when the post is going up ... Saturday night. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go crash and burn somewhere.

Post note: I forgot one dude ... freaking Mansur. So I'm squeezing him in close to the top near the relevant posts(Joanna is now 16th). So yeah 29 total. Ugh.

[Mercakete]

I like this plan. Nice. ^_^

Joanna is now 16th

I wonder who this note was for... *QAAM'd* (did I do that right, Acacia?)

[Acacia Sgt]

So much for having started with 29 then merging a few. You ended up with 29 again. *snrk*

I wonder who this note was for... *QAAM'd* (did I do that right, Acacia?)

Gee, I wonder as well. *SAAM'ed*

No, you're doing it wrong because you don't even play the games. And you forgot a letter anyway. *V2'ed*

Edited February 4, 2012 by Acacia Sgt

[Snowy_One]

I didn't think it was important before, but I'm curious now. How does Robin's complete inability to use magic factor in with the new system?

[Acacia Sgt]

I didn't think it was important before, but I'm curious now. How does Robin's complete inability to use magic factor in with the new system?

Is there even such a thing as complete inability? Judging from the stuff stated in the revised notes, it's all about training in order to use it.

[Phoenix]

Someone who can't use magic is someone who's not putting enough/any time into learning it. That's not to say Robin would pick up spell casting by the end of the rp if she started right now, but it's the real reason she's not capable at the moment. It's not like DA's mages or Starwars's force sensitives where only certain have any potential at all.

[Snowy_One]

Okay. FYI, she's probably never going to be able to use any magic. Even when Z was around, her 'learning' magic was decided to end in essential failure (with her likely barely learning only a simple spell). I just don't want it ending up with Robin's inability ending up being a 'Robin is too stupid to use it' or something.

[ReformBlade]

Why would that be so bad? I'm certain she's stupid enough to not know how to do a lot of things, so why Magic off limits to that?

[Phoenix]

Okay. FYI, she's probably never going to be able to use any magic.

Her and most other physically classed units as a whole *shrug*

I just don't want it ending up with Robin's inability ending up being a 'Robin is too stupid to use it' or something.

Unfortunately as Reina will soon point out for us, magic is not a field exclusively for the intelligent.

why Magic off limits to that?

*parlor tricks*

Everyone should know them.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Phoenix

[Snowy_One]

Because I like having Robin simply incapable of using magic. She's awed by it, but incapable of using it.

[Phoenix]

Well either she's incapable of wielding it because she isn't putting in the time to learn it (years) and/or lacks the resources, OR she's incapable of wielding it because she's just dumb inept. Up to you to decide which

[Mercakete]

Uhh... Wondering if you're thinking backwards, Snowy. Canon doesn't revolve around characters, characters revolve around canon. Just in case that somehow escaped you.

[Phoenix]

It is done

EDIT:

This is also done(not really)

RotE: Rebellion link

Edited February 5, 2012 by Phoenix

[roymbrog]

IIIIII have just finished catching up. Hehe, took an hour to read Phee's posts..

[GoD]

/me sees that Olga is in a post. !!!!

SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP LAAAAAAAAAAADYYYYYYYY~

She has RETURNED!!! THOSE POSTS ARE WORTH SOMETHING AFTER ALL!!!!!

[Acacia Sgt]

Well, I'd say it wasn't that bad... but still... can't be sure of this every single freaking night! Oh you bunch of owls... *Schwarze'd*

[roymbrog]

I do exist, I just thought that with the timeskip it'd be a good time to take a break. I had like three tests this past week and several projects to work on...

[Acacia Sgt]

I just noticed... so Gytha wants to jump the Inner City Wall. Did she just found the Palace doors open? Did those workers operating the mechanisms really left them open? Since it didn't looked like Gytha asked them to open them. Do they even know Common for that?

Also... freaking owls, both of you! *Espada'ed*

Edited February 11, 2012 by Acacia Sgt

[GoD]

I'd love to post.... I guess I will even if there is nothing I could do at this point.

Hmph maybe it's time to make my second character.

[roymbrog]

...No one's waiting on me, right? *roy doesn't want to be dead weight, she's here sometimes*

Also, plan B.

What do you guys think would be interesting to have Valter and Synthia talk about? Because I got nothing but I wanna post something.

Also... NPCs?

[Phoenix]

What do you guys think would be interesting to have Valter and Synthia talk about? Because I got nothing but I wanna post something.

1: The winged races (Personal favorite)

2: Animals (School Rumble favorite)

3: Music (Maiden favorite)

4: Strategy (Bleh)

5: Old times (Good times)

Also... NPCs?

Cloeeeeeeeee.

... also Tairi could do stuff.

EDIT: Oh and there's on other thing, regarding IRC.

I wasn't able to say anything during that argument about Gytha vs Desert (because I was sleeping and having a lucid dream about fallen having a beach outing, but my scrollback was working just fine so I don't have to pester Snike for logs~, and I got to read it. Man ...

Anyway I should probably comment on it as a whole ... more importantly I should explain exactly what happened and the reasons behind it. I'll be addressing quotes as well to make this easier too.

<Kiryn>

have we considered that maybe the government in this region isn't actually one's ideal government

That point is probably the first thing that should have been brought up. There's no sense in holding the Sancturan government to some other standard. It doesn't change anything IC.

<Merca>

And I'm saying said government is flawed.

Acacia's defending their totalitarian ways

Sanctuary is a totalitarian government ... more accurately, it's an autocracy, so I really don't see the point of saying 'It's flawed'. Do you know of any flawless government systems in the world?

Now the next bit of argument steered toward the autocrat herself ...

<Merca>

So if they really cared about her wellfare, Aisha would stop the sandstorm.

You've got to first ask 'Why are there sandstorms in the first place?'. (I'll get back to this)

<Merca>

The desert is a fantasy desert

It's /safe/

I am willing to save people to a point, but I try to find a balance through plausibility. I'm perfectly willing to let people get their characters killed, or save them from otherwise 90% fatal scenarios, but there are limits to this. Like if Gytha decided to shoot a powder keg at point blank range, I would be hard pressed to bring her back from that ... at least not without a damn good healer already present and not also caught up in the explosion.

<Merca>

Plot conveniance follows the characters wherever they go

I dunno, I thought ending up in the desert was inconvenient on principle. Sure Sanctuary's nice (even though it's a completely flawed oppressive government or something), but we could be fighting our enemies up north instead of being trapped like animals with all of these pretty tanned girls. Not sure where I was going with that. Moving on.

<AcaciaSgt>

Let's not throw realism out of the window inly because this is a work of fiction.

Don't worry, I'll make sure 99% of all other headshots in this rp are fatal. Lilith is just hax.

<Merca>

Would the GMs have allowed a character to die out there? No.

Actually I'd let characters die at virtually any time and place if it's plausible and the rper wills it. PC immunity is only optional. (see powder keg)

<AcaciaSgt>

But realism must still be applied. Lulu knows the desert isn't a safe place to be. Forcing her to stay was better than letting her go and then have her die of dehydration or something.

Oh dearest Lulu had her reasons~

<Snowy>

I don't think it matters.

Classic, Snowy

<AcaciaSgt>

That would violate the canon behind Aisha's sandstorms-

---

Even Lulu said the sandstorms would just loop her back to Sanctuary.

Well the guards said that's probably what would happen if Gytha tried to leave after she pointed out that she was a guest in the city. Truth is, it's never been clarified exactly what Aisha would do if Gytha had left the city and somehow gotten all of the guards to leave her alone, but I can tell you all right now that the sandstorms weren't going to disappear.

It's been stated several times already by Haythem that the supply caravans travel through the sandstorms to reach Sanctuary, and the only reason they don't get turned around is because Aisha guides them through it. Hell, we traveled through a storm ourselves just to reach Sanctuary. So to the question 'Why are there sandstorms in the first place?'. It's because they serve as mystical checkpoints which Aisha can then use to completely misdirect travelers and prevent them from ever reaching Sanctuary, but it also works in the other way, as the guards theorized.

<Merca>

@ Acacia: Don't take what characters say as canon.

Take canon as canon

Just a side note, I do sometimes have to establish various bits of canon through characters saying it. That isn't always the case but it happens quite frequently.

<Merca>

If Nanahm can roundhouse kick a bull wyvern for a KO, I'm pretty sure Gytha can make it to a somewhat-nearby port city.

So it stands to reason that this could happen too and it's less ridiculous since there's a chance of it being able to happen anyway, even if the odds are against it

Isn't the problem not that she could reach a port city, but that she has no supplies, no idea where she's going, and it's still not clear whether or not she could ever get through the storms back into regular desert? Why would she even go to a port city when she's looking for Amon?

<AcaciaSgt>

Thing is Merc. The odds aren't agains it. They're at freaking Zero.

There are several un-addressed factors that make reaching safety implausible/impossible:

Aisha has to be willing to let Gytha through the sandstorms without directing her back toward the city, she has to be able to survive the trip, and she has to know where she's going. Assuming the first issue with Aisha is resolved, her only hope of reaching any place relies on 'random encounters'. But keep in mind, her original goal was to chase after Amon, not reach the nearest port(which is ironically in a completely different direction), and she ran to the south gate(not for certain but it's a safe assumption if she ran downhill), so in all likelihood, she would be heading off south into the desert ... not east or west. It's over a hundred miles to the nearest southern settlement and it's not even terrain. Without supplies of some kind or random encounters, I would label this a death sentence. She's on foot after all.

<Merca>

Not like she's be all perfectly healthy etc by the time she reaches there anyway

If she's going to the nearest port, she's obviously worn the hell out. If she's heading south, she's dead without a random encounter. Same with west. Heading north is apparently dragon territory. Not recommended, either(though that's closer to Amon than other routes).

<Merca>

And suddenly "oh look! Oasis!" and after she collapses after that: "Caravan dude: Hey, there's someone fainted over here! Let's take her back to town!"

I do pull stuff like this but that's pretty abusive.

<Furetchen>

"Oh, look! Oasis! ...Wait, mirages are a thing. FUCK!"

Hahah.

<Merca>

The characters didn't, no. But I never talked with Phoenix about splitting her off from the group either. Remember, kids, it's not canon unless GM says so. NOT GM's character's.

<AcaciaSgt>

Still, you need an inRP reason as well.

And right now, IC dictates Gytha won't be allowed outside the city.

I don't like to allow things without some IC justification as well, which was actually pretty lacking at the time. Had things been mentioned in advance, yes, Gytha could have probably gotten out of the city(with ease, even). PC status has absolutely no relevance or bearing on this. Now I should cover exactly what happened during Gytha's escape attempt and why. Try not to let this bit of insight influence your characters IC:

Gytha's goal was apparently to go and help Amon. Her chosen method of doing this was to run out into the desert and search for him, even if she didn't have directions, and ignoring the fact that she could make almost no progress on foot before his mission was estimated to be completed. There are not one but several reasons Lulu stopped her. Now this is going to show why everything should be taken into account. Here is the real deal.

1: Sancturans do not and cannot come and go as they please under normal circumstances. This is a 'hidden city' and security is priority number one. Theoretical traveling Sancturans can be captured, interrogated, used as leverage in any number of ways, and so on. Guests are not under the same level of restrictions, but they can be made that way if there's a problem. While this would never directly threaten the city itself, it would cause civil unrest and possibly even anarchy over Aisha's most likely response(aka, not taking direct action against the offenders or helping to rescue anyone). If Sanctuary's location becomes well known and widespread, organized groups will become a much larger problem in the future. Sancturans only enjoy a relative peace because the enemy isn't coordinated enough to threaten their city directly and force a state of open warfare.

2: Safety for all those involved. Gytha would have been free to leave Sanctuary if they were confident that she could survive and if they didn't already know that she was unintentionally planning to threaten city security by interfering with an important espionage mission. This was enough for Lulu to deem Gytha as 'crazy' and revoke her right to leave the city(by herself), opinions be damned. They don't have to like each other, but Lulu did not want a guest to go out into the desert in an absolutely futile attempt to reach Amon and aid him in the mission. She knows that Aisha would not clear the way for Gytha, and at best she could just hope to be turned right back around(most likely scenario since in order to negotiate for the emblem piece Raquel has, it would be unwise to be partially responsible for the loss of one of Raquel's people)

3: Personal stake. Lulu does care about Amon; she's known him for years. As she said twice already, she doesn't want him to come back to find that one of his friends is dead or dying out in the desert. How much worse if the Sancturan security forces and even the maidens just LET IT HAPPEN. Amon's trust and loyalty isn't something Lulu will compromise, even if she has to explain to Amon personally why Gytha is locked in a cell.

So there you have it. These were the IC mechanics at work at the time of the escape attempt.

This has been a Phoenix input. Thank you for you time.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Phoenix

[GoD]

Isn't the problem not that she could reach a port city, but that she has no supplies, no idea where she's going, and it's still not clear whether or not she could ever get through the storms back into regular desert? Why would she even go to a port city when she's looking for Amon?

I would label this a death sentence. She's on foot after all.

THIS... I LIKE THIS.

Hey Roy let Syn and Valt talk about sand. Sand is a very interesting topic.

I like sand, if you couldn't tell. :)

[Phoenix]

I don't like sand ... It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

[Mercakete]

@ why she'd be going to a port city: I was taking into accound that the sandstorms would likely misdirect her and was saying that was one possible outcome if she had been allowed into the desert. Not that she'd be aware of it until she woke up there.

Also, a lot of those quotes make me sound unreasonable. Sure, maybe I was kind of frusterated, but it'd not like I don't take plausability into account when I'm dreaming up schemes. =_= It's just you have to look at the plausability in prospective of the world canon and I was trying to say that their deserts are not our deserts and are therefore subject to turns of fate different from real-world odds. It's based on it, yeah, but that doesn't automcatically make it an exact coppy. Depending on what was talked about between GM and rper before the fact and what happens in-rp generally dictates what happens to characters. Real-world odds are taken into account, but they don't usually determine what happens of and by themselves since we basicly control the turns of fate. And actually, if the intent is to take a character off the radar and store him/her for later, this is a good way to do it. The whole time I was basicly arguing real-world absolutes (which aren't always absolutes as can be seen in various stories -- a good source of said stories is the show called "I Shouldn't be Alive" iirc) vs fiction.

@ Powder keg illustration: Yeah, I know that, I was just pointing out that a character going out into the desert in a ficticious setting does not automatically mean it's a death sentense seeing as situational conveniances can and do show up via rper creativity (i.e., Asad's caravan.) So it was one of those things where there are plausible ways around it.

[roymbrog]

@ Phee: Same. There are some places sand should just not be.

Edited February 14, 2012 by roymbrog