The new FE10 draft tier list

[Anouleth]

And he can. His combat is better than Boyd's because he starts doubling much faster. He has significant durability over the two, also.

Once Boyd also starts doubling (not very difficult with a Wing + Seraph Robe + BEXP), his offense is just as good, if not better. Durability is not an issue either once Boyd gains some levels. It is easy to get Boyd many levels, I have done it before. Whereas Boyd also has better movement, having 7 or 9 to Gatrie's 6 or 8 (and lower terrain penalties).

In any case, I am not suggesting Boyd is better than Gatrie. Just that you cannot just say 'lol celerity' when someone brings up Gatrie's cruddy movement, because any character can use it to effect. Even if he is the best choice, there is still an associated opportunity cost to taking Celerity.

By 'needing' I mean he needs it to overcome his already crap Mov. I just see 7 Mov as enough. It's not like the impact is huge unless you give it to Haar or Titania.

so WHAT if he needs it to overcome his already crap Mov. What is giving Gatrie Celerity going to do for me in terms of turncount that I could not get from some other unit?

[Paperblade]

Keep in mind that Gatrie is 2HKOing and doubling at 1-2 range at like, 3-4, so even if Mia and Boyd have 1 more Move, unless they can do all the time Gatrie can still be better or at least comparable. The only chapter with a lot of thickets is 3-3.

Fiona can just do that. She needs much more resources than Laura just to be of some use passed Part 3.

Fiona was essential for my 4 turn clear of 4-1. Unless Laura is one rounding Generals and never dying, she will not be performing the same role.

Because, honestly, Rescue-Dropping is the only thing she's good for, for 2 or 3 chapters at Part 3.

Laura does jack all in Part 3 anyway.

While most of Laura's Part 1 consists on self-improvement, she can easily become a combat unit by 1-7 through 1-E to be actually more useful than Fiona for Part 3 & 4.

Laura's getting like 20-30 real EXP per chapter due to the fact that healing will most likely put her in danger or slowing you down and the fact that chapters are so short. If you BEXP her she is getting Mag/Skl/Spd: Meaning that her concrete durability is still atrocious, and it's unlikely that the +20 avoid from capping out at 15 Spd (no, Laura doesn't have a cap of 20 Spd at first tier) will help that situation. Going from 16HP/2 Defense to, say, 22HP and 6 Defense won't even avoid being OHKO'd by all enemies (axe users etc), and to even get this much EXP she's taking away BEXP from your actual DB unit, and for what? To have 20 magic attack? 16AS doesn't double Myrmidons and is iffy at best against other enemies.

Laura's combat sucks, Laura's durability sucks, and getting her there isn't worth it.

The only time Fiona will ever be beating her is by Endgame due to a better Spd cap, if she even gets there.

Fiona beats Laura no matter what.

Edited January 31, 2011 by Paperblade

[Junkhead]

Once Boyd also starts doubling (not very difficult with a Wing + Seraph Robe + BEXP), his offense is just as good, if not better. Durability is not an issue either once Boyd gains some levels. It is easy to get Boyd many levels, I have done it before. Whereas Boyd also has better movement, having 7 or 9 to Gatrie's 6 or 8 (and lower terrain penalties).

In any case, I am not suggesting Boyd is better than Gatrie. Just that you cannot just say 'lol celerity' when someone brings up Gatrie's cruddy movement, because any character can use it to effect. Even if he is the best choice, there is still an associated opportunity cost to taking Celerity.

so WHAT if he needs it to overcome his already crap Mov. What is giving Gatrie Celerity going to do for me in terms of turncount that I could not get from some other unit?

Like Paper said, Gatrie 2HKO's most enemies to Oscar and Mia's 3-4HKO'ing with the need of Adept + Forges. Adept already doesn't let them use Celerity.

Fiona > Laura

Please, read this.

[Anouleth]

Like Paper said, Gatrie 2HKO's most enemies to Oscar and Mia's 3-4HKO'ing with the need of Adept + Forges. Adept already doesn't let them use Celerity.

Please, show me what Oscar is only 3HKOing in Normal Mode with a forge (besides Generals). I invite you to back up your assertions with an actual fact.

Oh, and please show me how Mia can't 2HKO either. Let's see, Energy Drop + C support + 4 levels gives her 21 strength, for 36ATK with a Steel Forge, a clean 2HKO against everything in 3-2 except Halberdiers which she's 1 point of strength off (but Gatrie can't even double them in the first place) and Generals. While Gatrie will eventually get more speed and double more stuff, Mia will also get more strength and a stronger support and 2HKO more stuff.

Keep in mind that Gatrie is 2HKOing and doubling at 1-2 range at like, 3-4, so even if Mia and Boyd have 1 more Move, unless they can do all the time Gatrie can still be better or at least comparable. The only chapter with a lot of thickets is 3-3.

I got Boyd to level 15 by chapter 3-4 (and I'm sure other people are capable of doing much better in a draft on Normal Mode), at which point he has 27 strength and 23 speed (with a speedwing). Which is... the same as Gatrie, except that Gatrie needs Celerity just to match Boyd's movement normally (Boyd also has the minor advantage of being able to use a Crossbow to take out the Sages on the left ledge with better accuracy than most characters could have at this point in the game). And Gatrie has to take a Crown, while Boyd doesn't particularly care.

[Junkhead]

Please, show me what Oscar is only 3HKOing in Normal Mode with a forge (besides Generals). I invite you to back up your assertions with an actual fact.

Oh, and please show me how Mia can't 2HKO either. Let's see, Energy Drop + C support + 4 levels gives her 21 strength, for 36ATK with a Steel Forge, a clean 2HKO against everything in 3-2 except Halberdiers which she's 1 point of strength off (but Gatrie can't even double them in the first place) and Generals. While Gatrie will eventually get more speed and double more stuff, Mia will also get more strength and a stronger support and 2HKO more stuff.

...Alright, you win. HM stats sometimes get in my head, resulting in that.

So Oscar > Gatrie? Gatrie's offense is better. But it doesn't matter if they're both 1RKO'ing. It's Mov vs. Durability. I need to see what others think of this so I can see what to make of this. Boyd above Gatrie as well?

[Yuglyoshi]

So Oscar > Gatrie? Gatrie's offense is better. But it doesn't matter if they're both 1RKO'ing. It's Mov vs. Durability. I need to see what others think of this so I can see what to make of this. Boyd above Gatrie as well?

Well, is there ever a situation where Oscar's durability isn't adequate? His dodging and defenses are comparable to Titania, and I don't see anyone complaining about her survivability (you don't get in god tier without having good defensive stats). Earth affinity and Sol make him invisible. The only areas where Oscar might have trouble is in3-P and 3-1, but I think having 50% better movement than Gatrie in over a dozen chapters more than makes up for it.

[Paperblade]

Having used Gatrie in a draft, I definitely think his Move is a problem, mostly in 3-3 and 3-4 and to a lesser extent 3-10 and 3-11. However, I've not participated in other drafts so I can't mention other units to compare.

I know that in 3-8 a fast clear requires ORKOing Generals at 1-2 range, but I don't think that it makes up for being a bit slow in other chapters. Boyd can easily mimic that I would think, and I doubt Oscar is far behind.

I think of the main GMs it should be something like

Titania

Oscar

Boyd

Mia

Soren (Maybe. He BEXPs well and has a very fast Ike support, and GM chapters require less splitting up compared to the DB)

Gatrie

Shinon

Rolf

Rhys

Mist

Maybe even Rhys above Rolf, I have no idea how good he is with stat boosters and shit thrown at him.

My only concern is that horses suck in 3-4 and I have no idea how well Ike solos it (or duos it with like a single Laguz) which might push Boyd-Soren above Oscar, since it's unlikely someone who gets Tits or Oscar will also get Haar or Neph, although I suppose that someone like Ilyana is always a possibility.

Ergo, Laura's best avenue of advance is BEXP feeding like it's cotton candy. Since it's NM, Mic's hitting 20 before she promotes anyway, Sothe doesn't need any and you likely only have one other Brigadier, Laura gets whatever BEXP she wants.

This is false. While your DB dudes gets plenty of EXP, a weaker DB choice like Aran is not going to be fine with just CEXP, and would prefer it to reliably kill Ike.

Integ had probably the best DB unit available: Nolan, whose caps are so high that BEXP is not an improvement over regular level ups, as well as Earth affinity which greatly improved Laura's durability (he mentions their support several times).

Now note that I fed her BEXP slower than I should and it didn't really pay off; most of the 99BEXP +1 CEXP levels I gave her were two- or three-stat levels anyway.

This is because Laura's growths are hilariously lopsided.

I had her eat a Seal just in time to become a Walrus[/b]Bishop for 1-E, but I think 1-8 is easily feasible, especially considering somebody better than I getting more BEXP.

If you aren't getting max BEXP every chapter, your turn counts aren't competitive unless you're leaving behind the soldiers in 1-8 or civilians in 1-7 (which require certain picks, not combat liabilities).

What did Laura look like at this ludicrous 20 without even a half dozen CEXP levels? Capped MAG/SKL/SPD, enough STR to negate weight penalties, and some decent DEF. What did she lose? HP. At 20/0, she had 18. Obviously, this is unworkable - but you have two Seraph Robes to throw around. Micaiah may have dibs on one, but Nolan/Volug ain't gonna need it, and only Edward would really enjoy it as much as Laura I think. Therefore, Laura's up to 25, then promoting and gaining a few points.

Jill's HP is questionable, Micaiah's HP even with a Robe is questionable.

Capped Spd is nice, except that Laura's Speed caps at 15 in the first tier. She is not likely to double (she is questionable vs. 1-7 HM enemies, and he's suggesting she's promoting for 1-8 at the earliest, where we have to deal with Bandits and Mages, the former of which are fast and the latter of which she does crap damage to) unless you save the Speedwing for her.

Part 3:

3-6: Laura was able to face 2RKO at <40% HIT from Tigers and Cats alike. She also, with Beastfoe, roughly demolished them in return, doing something on the order of Ludicrous Damage especially to Tigers. Her Nolan support here also dropped the hits to <20%, making her very, VERY tough.

As mentioned, an Earth support is not guaranteed, and being 2HKO'd at 30-40 hit on normal mode is questionable. He also mentions Beastfoe, which again is not a guarantee due to RNG and requiring a good 1-4 team (something that Zihark, Volug, and Jill picks will not have) and the Nolan support. Keep in mind that due to the nature of 3-6, it is better to split your team up to kill Laguz faster, so Laura needing to stay next to Nolan makes her use in this chapter questionable.

Also note that he had her with Beastfoe. Anyone with a forge and Beastfoe will destroy this chapter.

3-12: Not as good as 3-6, but she was able to wall and knock some bitches down alongside her BFF. At this point, Laura's durability surpassed Sothe's.

Having one unit that ORKOs compared to two is pointless in this chapter unless you are splitting them up (one for the cliffs, one for elsewhere) or they lack the durability to tank everything. I sincerely doubt that Nolan's durability is lacking here (especially with Tarvos). Fiona may not be the best unit in the world but she can stand on her own two feet (or her horse's four feet as it may be) and pick off Pegasus Knights and shit up top.

3-13: Laura became Saint Laura. If I'd remembered to recruit Aran instead of killing him, I'd have had a Sleep Staff on the only possible user (thanks to Mic's lockedness) to bumrush Ike for a roflkill. Because I forgot it, I had the brilliant idea to course Saint Laura straight down with Beastfoe and see what she could do. The result? She killed every Beast between her and Ike in one round each with Nolan tagging behind, and then faced Ike at almost 1RKO status. A little Nolan weakening caused Laura to crush him utterly - and she had the potential to proc Corona which would have dropped him licketysplit.

Again, a unit with Beastfoe and an Earth support kills Cats and Tigers. In any case, again we are downplaying that Nolan is there and enemies are attacking Laura instead. Why? Because Laura's durability is worse. She has less avoid, less HP, less Defense. Now, since we can restart, this isn't a big deal, but Laura's not actually improving our turn count here. He doesn't mention numbers, but if my Aran can 3 turn the chapter due to Ike killing himself on enemy phase, I have no doubts that Nolan can do the same, and Sleeping Ike so he doesn't counter would only increase our chances of failure.

Part 4 for Laura was better than Part 3, in that she became, roughly, invincible. To give you an idea, I stocked her with Ellight for 4-4 and had to make Nolan leave her. She was bogged down by a SM she couldn't double and managed to break her way into Oliver's area and break all the tomes I gave her. Solo. No support. 4-1 was less spectacular but she performed similarly on the right side.

I had Ike do the same thing in 4-4 and Fiona do the same thing in 4-1. In Part 4, every unit is overpowered like that. The only thing that matters is deciding how you divide up your units to minimize turn counts. Having Laura perform a redundant role (Ike is free) and doing the same thing as Fiona in Part 3 (read: nothing) and 4-1 (killing Generals) isn't impressive.

Fiona has unique utility in that she speeds up 1-7 and 1-E without being a first pick unit. This is important for a mid tier unit (for example, CRKs save penalties in 2-3 and 3-9, Brom in 2-1 and 2-2, LEA in 1-8, etc.). Dudes like Astrid and Lyre suck because by the time they're usable, everyone else is ORKOing and not dying. Laura doesn't have unique utility like that, she's just another body in Part 4, but there's probably only a dozen units that that doesn't apply to.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Paperblade

[Anouleth]

Having used Gatrie in a draft, I definitely think his Move is a problem, mostly in 3-3 and 3-4 and to a lesser extent 3-10 and 3-11. However, I've not participated in other drafts so I can't mention other units to compare.

I know that in 3-8 a fast clear requires ORKOing Generals at 1-2 range, but I don't think that it makes up for being a bit slow in other chapters. Boyd can easily mimic that I would think, and I doubt Oscar is far behind.

The problem is he can barely even do that. You need something to the tune of 46 attack to 2HKO a General. With a 14mt Hand Axe, Gatrie needs 32 strength, or level 6 promoted, which seems high (I'm sure you know better than I if it's reasonable or not). I suppose you could also reset for a +mt coin or give him a +mt support, though, but Boyd wouldn't need the support.

My only concern is that horses suck in 3-4 and I have no idea how well Ike solos it (or duos it with like a single Laguz) which might push Boyd-Soren above Oscar, since it's unlikely someone who gets Tits or Oscar will also get Haar or Neph, although I suppose that someone like Ilyana is always a possibility.

Titania and Oscar are still useful in that chapter because they can drop Ike closer to the ledge.

As mentioned, an Earth support is not guaranteed, and being 2HKO'd at 30-40 hit on normal mode is questionable. He also mentions Beastfoe, which again is not a guarantee due to RNG and requiring a good 1-4 team (something that Zihark, Volug, and Jill picks will not have) and the Nolan support. Keep in mind that due to the nature of 3-6, it is better to split your team up to kill Laguz faster, so Laura needing to stay next to Nolan makes her use in this chapter questionable.

Also note that he had her with Beastfoe. Anyone with a forge and Beastfoe will destroy this chapter.

It's interesting to note that even with Beastfoe and a forge, Laura fails to OHKO Tigers and Cats and won't double either until her speed picks up a little bit, so she's probably actually more like your worst character. Even Fiona or Meg can OHKO Cats with a forge and have better speed to double Tigers earlier.

Having one unit that ORKOs compared to two is pointless in this chapter unless you are splitting them up (one for the cliffs, one for elsewhere) or they lack the durability to tank everything. I sincerely doubt that Nolan's durability is lacking here (especially with Tarvos). Fiona may not be the best unit in the world but she can stand on her own two feet (or her horse's four feet as it may be) and pick off Pegasus Knights and shit up top.

You could probably put her on a ledge on the LHS and have her kill stuff that way, but I don't think she 1-rounds Sages even with capped magic and it takes her a century to get over there.

[Paperblade]

The problem is he can barely even do that. You need something to the tune of 46 attack to 2HKO a General. With a 14mt Hand Axe, Gatrie needs 32 strength, or level 6 promoted, which seems high (I'm sure you know better than I if it's reasonable or not). I suppose you could also reset for a +mt coin or give him a +mt support, though, but Boyd wouldn't need the support.

I did the playthrough twice and Gatrie got there both times. He can easily promote after 3-3 and it's not hard to get him 5 levels by 3-8.

Edit: Also I think it's slightly lower than that, you might be looking at HM stats?

Edited February 1, 2011 by Paperblade

[Naglfar]

@"Boyd/Mia/Haar/whoever is better for Celerity than Gatrie"

Look at previous drafted teams and the priorities there. Then tell me that Gatrie is ever realistically going to be on the same team as any of these people.

His possible competition is more like Shinon/Rolf/Soren.

Soul, I'll counter your post when I get back to my computer.

k.

That's right. And their aren't lots of 2-range enemies either throughout Part 3.

There are enough of them, and few enough player units to deal with them, for it to matter.

Free characters are on the list for a reason, you know. That reason would be that they also count as units despite not being draftable.

What does this have to do with the significance of forced deployment slots?

Ike doesnt either. Remember you were the one that implied Ike is given Adept if no one else has claim to it? That gets Ike to 1RKO, even with Steel swords.

100% probability > ~50% probability.

It's like comparing a character that borderline 1RKO's to a character that 1RKO's and overkills. What's the point of it being "better" when Ike only survives some less hits than Gatrie, but enough to be insanely durable?

Consistent ORKOing > inconsistent ORKOing. Never dying > being terrified of mages. These factors impact gameplay and as such there is definitely a point to being better.

Bold: "Needs help to keep up"? He 1RKO's every enemy at that side with a Steel blade. He just needs find a good positioning for enemies to attack, since not all enemies there are willing to go suicide to him.

There are a bunch of ranged attackers there. As such he's using wind edges again, or has to kill everything one by one. Meanwhile, Gatrie is cruising towards the boss unrestrained. Also, reinforcements spawn behind him for a few turns.

Italic: Because it's assumed we all draft fliers. No, not really. If you don't have a flier by then, he certainly needs Celerity. We need him to get to the seize square rather quickly. And even after fliers, I saw he needs Celerity to reach the seize square by around turn 6 or 7.

Apparently you can BEXP and/or crown Tanith or Sigrun to solve this problem. I'll have to actually try it to see how well it works.

Edited February 1, 2011 by Naglfar

[Junkhead]

There are enough of them, and few enough player units to deal with them, for it to matter.

3-8 & 3-10 are the only places you actually seem to need it, since they are Rout chapters and need to get enemies out of the way to reach a certain point fast. Is there another chapter you might suggest it's really needed like those two?

What does this have to do with the significance of forced deployment slots?

Well then, my answer is 'no' to your previous quetion. I do not think we are very limited with deployment slots. However, being such a great unit and being free is quite a boon. That's what I meant.

100% probability > ~50% probability.

Ike's probabilities aren't 100%? Surely you must be thinking that when he uses Steel swords. Because even then, he only fails to 1RKO Generals and some bosses with that. Give him a Steel blade and he's only loosing to General 1RKO'ing through 2-range. Something that's only needed in two chapters.

Consistent ORKOing > inconsistent ORKOing. Never dying > being terrified of mages. These factors impact gameplay and as such there is definitely a point to being better.

@Bold: Read what I said in reply my previous reply.

@Italic: You mean those squishy-looking 'enemies' that 3HKO under shaky Hit rates?

There are a bunch of ranged attackers there. As such he's using wind edges again, or has to kill everything one by one. Meanwhile, Gatrie is cruising towards the boss unrestrained. Also, reinforcements spawn behind him for a few turns.

Ike can still solo that part of the map in 5-6 turns while Gatrie is out on his killing spree. All he needs is good positining among those enemies. And what do two reinforcement Paladins matter? They are 1RKO'd by Ike, lack 2-range and suicide to him anyway. Of course, I'll concede that his performance is better than Ike's in this chapter.

Apparently you can BEXP and/or crown Tanith or Sigrun to solve this problem. I'll have to actually try it to see how well it works.

I used them on my first draft. Which is why 6-7 turning is possible with them or another flier. Although I wonder what 'problem' you are referring to?

Edited February 1, 2011 by Soul

[Zkirsche]

What does this have to do with the significance of forced deployment slots?

well, I don't have to choose Ike to use him over someone liek Haar or something, whereas with Gatrie I do. Not deployment slots per say, but rather he's a free choice.

[Junkhead]

That's one of the reasons I had difficulty coming to explain. Thank you.

Anyway, take a look at Upper-Middle now. Seems good?

[Paperblade]

I think that Soren > Shinon.

Soren can't take a hit, but Shinon taking one slows you down unless he's like owninating stuff with Adept/Crit Crossbow hax. Soren has a super fast Ike support (and this Earth support IS reliable) which buffs his Avoid by a ton so that he can actually tank, and being able to counter at 1 range means he has a better deterrent with Shade on him. He has 1 less Move but I don't know if it matters much.

[Junkhead]

Very well. Done.

I also think he could move up above Elincia and Naesala. But that would be too much saying, right?

[Paperblade]

Yeah, I agree. Possibly Tibarn as well.

Edit: Also, why is there like a 2 tier gap between Naesala and Skrimir?

Edited February 2, 2011 by Paperblade

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Heather can achieve that with Adept. Same with Nephenee and Mia. But that's only because they have the Spd to naturally double every enemy. The third attack usually allows them to kill every enemy barring Generals (Which Nephenee and Mia can kill with a critical in one of those rounds). Anyway, I do see that Oscar can 2-3HKO most enemies if he's given Adept. Like you said, leveling-speed isn't even a problem, and he could have gotten those levels from CEXP & BEXP to double and then 1RKO. But is that really enough to make him top the turns Nephenee saves you? And then at Part 4 and Endgame, I would say Nephenee defeneatly wins there.

What Oscar saves in 3-P and 3-1 I'd approximately equate to what Neph saves in 2-1 and 2-2 (both aren't too impactful). Beyond that Oscar has canto and +2 move, which possibly provides at least a turn win in 3-2, 3-3 (a substantial advantage), 3-5, 3-8, 3-10, 3-11, and the first chapter of each part 4 route. Neph only wins 3-4 and the second part 4 map, though Oscar still has important use in 4-4 in the lower section. At endgame, I'm not seeing how Neph > Oscar. Boyd vs Neph is more even, but I don't feel like disputing that current order right now.

I moved Muarim and Tormod right next to each other. Though Vika still remains lower since her performance is noticeably worse than their's. The fact that she's not particularly decent by Part 1 isn't enough to get her even close to them.

Nobody's really bothering giving BEXP to any of them unless they're undermanned. Tormod is beyond salvation. Vika needs tons of BEXP to make use of her great growths and THEN needs to at least S-rank her strike. Muarim is much better option since he needs just a few levels and Resolve. It helps that he's not far from capping some of his stats.

Actually, I've been using Vika in this current draft, and she's been comparatively good enough that I still don't think she should be a tier below, again considering the time frame we have them. 1-7 is even. 1-8 Tormod is probably best, Muarim can take care of the south, and Vika has the best mobility to help out in general plus a niche in hunting down the dragonriders. In 1-E, Tormod's probably the best again given two range and no-gauge considering the ledges, and at the top, none of them are that great considering the multitude of ranged enemies and general durability. In 4-4, consider that Resolves are probably going to silver route and Muarim has range and gauge to limit his effectiveness. All in all, I just don't think there's enough of a difference in enough time to warrant a tier gap here.

Spoonfeeding kills or just letting him stand on a thicket letting your luck guide you? Hindering another unit for that is just awful when that other unit can be assisting someone else with the routing for a faster clear.

What are you talking about? All Pelleas has to do is wait until the first warrior arrives, attack him on player phase and kill him on the counter. Next phase heal up and continue to counter the next warrior. Accuracy is not the greatest, but Pelleas can afford a miss in stepping out of range of one of the warriors. This requires no help whatsoever.

Elincia > Tibarn/Naesala again because of 2-E 5 turns.

Sothe should move above Titania in top tier. He is too essential to a fast clear of part 1 to be below Ike and Titania, who's teams do not have the same problem of unit scarcity.

Micaiah also should not be in upper mid. Beyond 1-2, she has minimal use and can be considered an inferior Laura in some sense.

What happened to Makalov? And why did Danved jump above Geoffrey/Kieran?

[Fenrir]

Ike/sothe ranked? you probly explained yourself but i dont wanan read thru 4 pages.

Nolan>Volug/Tits?

And haar needs his own tier, put Nolan>Volug>titan on high imo

[Yuglyoshi]

Ike/sothe ranked? you probly explained yourself but i dont wanan read thru 4 pages.

Nolan>Volug/Tits?

And haar needs his own tier, put Nolan>Volug>titan on high imo

I think you need to justify any recommendations you make, especially if you're nitpicking the very top of the list.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Makalov is missing

[Narga_Rocks]

Makalov is missing

What's most amazing isn't that it took so long for anyone to notice and point it out. What's most amazing is that apparently when the thread was first made Mak was actually there. You can tell by this post

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=24611&view=findpost&p=1437695

Since Mak is there in the quotes. I wonder what day he disappeared from the first post. Oh well.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Maybe nobody cares about him unless s/he has to use him :P

[Anouleth]

I think Sigrun needs to go below Skrimir.

3-11 is clearly in Sigrun's favour. 3-E is almost irrelevant. That leaves Part 4. You need about 44 attack to reliably 2HKO Paladins in 4-P. Sigrun needs to be level 9 promoted to achieve this with a Silver Greatlance, but she has only about 70 display hit. In order to have reliable offense, she needs to be level 13, at which point she can take a Steel forge. Needless to say, this kind of level is out of her reach even in a draft.

Skrimir on the other hand 1-rounds every enemy except the boss, and also has far better durability (for instance, Sigrun needs to avoid the Bow Knights in the east).

I'm not sure about 4-3, but I'm fairly certain that Skrimir should be doubling and ORKOing naturally. Again, this is better than Sigrun. 46 attack is needed for Halberdiers, 45 for Warriors. Meaning a Silver forge and level 16 promoted, which is quite high.

In 4-E-1, Sigrun cannot 2HKO Generals. Skrimir can. She is again, less durable (Most enemies 3HKO her). If Skrimir can reach max level and 34AS, then he can deal 19x2 damage to Deghinsea, making the chance of a 1 turn or 2 turn higher. Sigrun can bless a Wyrmslayer but may not have the 34AS to double Deghinsea. Skrimir can also deal much better damage to Auras and easy 1-round Spirits, as well as 2HKOing Sephiran.

Clearly, Skrimir has a large lead in Part 4. While 3-11 is a useful chapter to have flight in, is it enough to warrant an entire tier above Skrimir?

[RNG Princess]

I think Kieran belongs above Geoffrey, they both have 20 speed. Kieran has higher str growth and 5 less spd growth, but he has more availability. I also think Makalov belongs over Geoffrey.

[Naglfar]

I think Kieran belongs above Geoffrey, they both have 20 speed. Kieran has higher str growth and 5 less spd growth, but he has more availability. I also think Makalov belongs over Geoffrey.

On the contrary, Geoffrey saves quite a lot more turns in penalties and general omnipotence than any other CRK, thanks to sturdiness and access to all the awesome P2 lances, the brave lance especially. The other two aren't doing much in 3-11 and the second leg of P4 hates paladins (plus Geoffrey rejoins in 4-5 anyway), so they only have 3-E and one P4 chapter over him in availability. At Endgame, they're all pretty much the same. Also, Geoffrey and Marcia are the only CRKs who aren't mentally disabled.

Saving penalties should be counted in the list's criteria, right?