Zeo's Beginner Sprites

[Zeo]

Usually in sections like this you make one main topic instead of a bunch of individual ones to prevent clutter, correct? Unless it's a sprite request I think. I won't ask for one of those just yet though.

Anyways, I've never really had any talent for spriting, it goes all the way back to years ago when I was trying to make good Sonic sprites/edits. And when I learned how to splice for the first time I still had a lot of trouble with it, but I managed to complete it. For my first project I tried to go for Kensou from the King of Fighters in Mage attire. It didn't work out too much face wise as no one from FE looks like Kensou, but I completed it, which was the primary goal. Here it is.

It's my first splice ever, so don't be too hard on it. But I guess critique it? How would you go about making the smaller version also? I feel like I'll have more trouble with that.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Zeo

[eclipse]

Hmm. . .if you're going for Kensou, you'll need someone whose hair is a little less wild, and you'll probably need to steal some Sacaean eyes. I also demand a meat bun.

Can't help you much more than that, sorry~!

[Zeo]

Actually hair wise I came closer than you think. Rather than the Kensou look we all know, I used a look from an old King of Fighters 95 artwork of his as base.

I skimmed all the portraits from FE6 to FE8 and Matthew's eyes seemed the most diffiting for Kensou, they have that "troublemaker" feel to them, which is fitting for him. Sacaen eyes are too small and asian-ish in my opinion.

It would be amazing if face and even hair wise I could get him to look like this.

But that's far beyond my spriting ability. And last note, I WISH I could give him a meatbun, but sadly even spriting that is out of my skill level.

[Freohr Datia]

Sorry if this looks messy and sorry if this image looks really really big, but I had to make it big enough to fit all those circles/squares xD

Red: Coloring problems. Some of them are a color that doesn't really match the object it's on. Sorry about the one on the top left, but that's referring to the very left where there's a line of the skin tone's darkest color. That should probably be changed to the hair color's darkest color because the tone/hue of the skin color's brown doesn't really go well with the hue of the brown hair.

(Oh and I forgot to circle these with the red but the strands of hair at the very top have some of that skin color in there too and so I think you should try replace those with the dark hair shade too. That might be hard to tell when zoomed out too but =D)

Green: Outline problems. Generally where the edge of the mug touches the background it should be the outline color. And for the ear, I'd say add the darkest skin tone on its borders and that third green part on the right side of his face, a lot of that looks like it shouldn't be there. Try erasing up to the outline color.

Yellow: This is real hard to tell when zoomed out but this is the same as the green, it should probably have the outline color where it touches the background.

Blue: Shading problems. For the large square where the bangs are touching the skin, I think you only really need to add shading on one side of the strands otherwise it just seems to have that pillow shading effect. For the right strand (our point of view) you probably only need to add the shade on the left side of the strand because of its position from our angle of view. For the left strand since it's like in the center I think it could go either way. Though I think it might look better if you add shading on its left. ---- For the small blue square, on the top left try replacing that with a darker color.

Purple: There's a real bright spot there and it really stands out when zoomed out, but I think try darkening that down because where it's at it should be underneath some shade. It just didn't look right to me.

I think that's all =]

EDIT: Oh yeah the forehead... I think you might have to lift the hair or something because usually there'd be more of a forehead showing.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Freohr Datia

[eclipse]

The Kensou I'm most familiar with is '98. . .though I don't know why. I didn't much care for him in '95.

Do Athena next!

[Zeo]

I was actually planning on doing Athena. But not at the moment. See this is actually for a potential hack if all goes well in the learning process. And while Kensou is one of the first 2 units you get (Not the Lord, a Mage) Athena comes much later. I was thinking of using Lillina's hair for her with some edits... but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

@Freohr

Very intriguing analysis of the sprite, so detailed, I wouldn't have caught any of the things you saw more than likely. If critique is like this regularly here, this will really help me with future edits. Back to the point, I made an attempt to address every problem you pointed out.

I believe I've corrected everything in green, the ear might still be a little funky, but give me detail on what needs to be changed if you see anything.

1. The ear, touched on this already. 2. Right side of his face, fixed, I think it's less messy now. 3. his neck, again, fixed.

Now the red.

1. The bang to the far right, replaced this with a more appropriate color hopefully. 2. The ear, not sure if I filled in the right shade, so tell me if I didn't. 3. The brown next to the blue shoulder, found and corrected. 4. Not sure this was an error, I noticed the brown and grey-ish color mingled at the bottom of the cloak but this was actually how it originally looked on the FE6 portrait I used. Never the less I changed and made it full brown for that spot.

Yellow, done and fixed.

Purple, you were right, sticks out like a sore thumb, fixed.

Blue was probably the most difficult, I think I've gotten the right bang right. Still not sure how to go about the left, still made an attempt to change it though. For the little square I used darker colors.

How is it now?

Edited June 11, 2011 by Zeo

[Chocolate Kitty]

A quick tidbit, referencing is always your friend for basically everything, however FE6 is not the best to reference, FE7 and FE8 have better shading and spriting techniques.

[Teapot]

Cranium. He needs it.

[Zeo]

Editing out some hair to show more forehead then, or would I just have to raise the hair all together?

EDIT: I just realized something I did. When I first spliced, I obviously took Sain's face structure. But in the middle of splicing, I removed the headband which is basically a good chunk of his head. Maybe keeping it and recoloring it to skin and then adding the hair it would turn out better?

Edited June 11, 2011 by Zeo

[Freohr Datia]

I'm particularly lazy (not a very strong point XD) and would try avoid moving the hair upward because that would provide a whole bunch of edits after doing that too, but it might look best if you shift the hair upward.

Oh and another thing I forgot.

Well what I forgot is what's in the green. That little pixel of hair that's sticking out there doesn't really look right =D

As for the ear, that little section in red I think still needs more of the dark brown skin shade to border it.

[Zeo]

Moving the head was harder than I thought it would be and it probably opened up more doors for color issues. But ignore them for now, I'm not doing any more color fixing until this head problem is out of the way because I'm essentially doing it over again when repositioning the head.

How is it? If head size is ironed out, then we can talk about color issues.EDIT: From here on out, for every edit after this one I'm just going to update the first post for the changes.

Edited June 11, 2011 by Zeo

[Teapot]

Resplice it. It'd be much faster and cleaner, and it'd iron out all th issues in one fell blow. It's not as if it's an incredibly complicated splice, anyway.

...and once you get past the first page, it's kind of pointless to update the first post with the new edits.

[Zeo]

How's that? If a topic gained more pages, people would have to search through the pages rather than simply saying "Update, First post." And them knowing exactly where to look. I mean I can keep doing it this way but the other seems more efficient. Maybe there's something I'm not getting.

As for the head, I already re-spliced in that last post. He's got more head now, you're saying he needs more? I mean.. I don't want to make it look like the hair is propped on top of his head, but I'll try it out one more time and highten it a bit and see how it looks.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Zeo

[Teapot]

It's good reference. Leaving behind a trail of previous versions to compare to the newest versions is preferable to simply having an update and wondering what was fixed, especially if the update is actually somehow worse than the previous. Also, because SF doesn't have a system that displays the first post in the reply section, it's a bit of a pain having to open the image in another window or tab, as opposed to simply replying and viewing the image in the same window (whether using fast reply or simply viewing the post below). Of course, there's nothing wrong with updating the first post with your latest work, as it is a gallery topic.

People have a lot more forehead than you think.

1) Very heavy shading under the bangs.

2) Big line of darkest skin tone that serves no purpose.

3) Collar too wide for neck.

4) Shoulder too wide for body.

5) Color contrast for two lightest blue tones is a bit too stark.

Would also like to add that the neck's angle is also of, and the ear is at an odd angle.

Beta Forde has some weird hair, too. It looks so unbalanced.

Edited June 12, 2011 by · j e a l o u s y ·

[Zeo]

Yeash, this gets harder and harder. Alright, let's see.. saving that image for one.

1. I guess I'll work on that once the head's been secure. I kept moving the hair higher but I didn't think to move it further back, I guess that'll be the first thing I do.

2. When I spliced a 2nd time that got added in somehow, easily fixable.

3. Around the edge there? So all I have to do is remove some of that portion, alright.

4. That I would actually be inclined to say is a game error as I did nothing to change it from it's original FE6 look sans color. But I guess taking the head into account, I'll shrink it a bit.

5. I like it actually, but I'll darken it just a bit.

[CT075]

4. That I would actually be inclined to say is a game error as I did nothing to change it from it's original FE6 look sans color. But I guess taking the head into account, I'll shrink it a bit.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here, Aeo (or anyone else with more spriting experience than myself)

I won't profess to be a good spriter in any fashion, but even I can tell you that this is faulty logic. Just from looking at the way the shoulder is, I would guess you spliced it from someone with his head closer to the middle, therefore making it correct.

That, or I'm just being a lunatic who doesn't know what he's talking about.

[Zeo]

No, I think you might be right.

Looking at the two back to back, the way Astol's head matches the cloak's length. Kensou on the other hand needs a shorter outfit alltogether. Fascinating actually. Alright, definitely shrinking the shoulder and collar now.

Edited June 12, 2011 by Zeo

[Teapot]

Astol has a big head, where Sain, alternatively, doesn't. More or less common sense to fit a body to a head (unless it's purposely disproportionate).

[Zeo]

Yeah, didn't... realize his head was so big. I had his sprite in in the same png file as the pieces for splicing, but I never actually took the finished product and him and compared them to eachother.

[Zeo]

Okay, continuing the head size issue I thought it would be better to just show what I'm connecting and what I'm planning to do if it would work.

(That horrible peice of shading there is Sain's headband since it is just covering more head)

On the bottom left is the positioning of his hair and head from the last rendition of the portrait. The bottom right is the attempt to give him more head, better?

[Teapot]

Much better. Crop the sideburns, then move the back part of his head in a pixel.

Edited June 12, 2011 by · j e a l o u s y ·

[Zeo]

I was reluctant to ask you to specify as I hate looking dense when I fail to understand something that might be obvious, but I need to perfectly understand what exactly you meant. Cropping the sideburns I get. I assume you mean the only one he has on the left next to his ear, am I getting rid of it for good or am I simply making more space for the head? As for moving the back part of his head in a pixel I didn't fully understand what you meant. Did you mean the back of his head as in the back of his hair, or the spot where his sideburn was, which would count as the back from this angle considering it's closest to the ear.

And by moving it in a pixel, I'm going to assume that's one line, but in as in another layer back where we cropped the sideburn?

Sorry for having to make you really break it down, but I need to get a full understanding as to not botch it up. If you can't explain it or give me an example, I'll just have to do trial and error and see how it goes.

[Teapot]

I don't mind explaining. Sorry for not clarifying earlier.

And by moving it in a pixel, I'm going to assume that's one line, but in as in another layer back where we cropped the sideburn?

Moving "x amount of pixels" refers to moving one pixel line (column or row), yes, in any direction. "Back," "to the near side," or "out" refers to moving the section toward the back of the head, or away from where the mug is facing; "forward," "to the far side," or "in" refers to moving the section toward the face, or the direction the mug is facing. "Up" and "down" are up and down, row-wise; top to bottom.

In this case, yes, it's being moved toward the sideburn.

Cropping the sideburns I get. I assume you mean the only one he has on the left next to his ear, am I getting rid of it for good or am I simply making more space for the head?

Yeah, that one. Initially, I meant to get rid of it altogether, but you could probably just get away with grabbing it and moving it back one pixel column. It was mostly because his 'burns were really encroaching on his eyes.

As for moving the back part of his head in a pixel I didn't fully understand what you meant. Did you mean the back of his head as in the back of his hair, or the spot where his sideburn was, which would count as the back from this angle considering it's closest to the ear.

Back part of his head as in the entire back section of his hair, from the nape up until about three spikes of hair up. Just select the whole area and push it in a pixel column or two. After that, grab the hair on the nape and drag it down three pixels. If you're really feeling ambitious, though, I'd go even farther by taking the front section of his bangs, and dragging it down a pixel. That should help work BForde's hair into Sain's facial angle.

Just fill in gaps and clean up the section around the ear from there.

Threw an example together:

Edited June 13, 2011 by · j e a l o u s y ·

[Zeo]

So I did what you said and compared the two and wow it looks better... Moving the hair was definitely key.

Anyways, I followed your advice to the letter.

Your shading skills are superior so I'll probably use your version and keep them both for future reference if you don't mind. But moving on, I did the two things you said to do earlier. I shrinked his shoulder by 2 pixels and got rid of the stray part of the scarf on his neck. How is it now?

Edited June 14, 2011 by Zeo

[Teapot]

Ooh, nice fix. I don't mind if you use the example, though there are still a few spots on there that could be fixed on it, since it was just thrown together.

Since the cloak and hair colors are the same, you could try throwing in the darkest hair tone to add some depth to the shading (instead of using border color). Also, the neck could be shaded a bit more under the chin. There's also a spot where the neck is exposed (no border color) below the chin. Missed a spot of Sain's hair color behind his ear, and there seem to be four shades of blue on the spaulder. Everything else would be aesthetic nitpicking, for the most part. Looks pretty good, otherwise.