Junkhead Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I dont like zihark in drafts. He's not durable, and the thought of using aran sounded funner. You have a Dracoshield and an Angelic Robe you could give him. Not to mention, this is NM and there's tons of BEXP that you can give him once he caps HP/Spd/Skill/Res for to upgrade the stats he needs. Then there's Resolve. I was considering taking him over Jill, but eventually decided that her flight would outweigh her statistical disadvantages. I just hope I don't regret it. Jill's bases aren't actually all that bad. Her durability can be on par with Zihark's after an Angelic Robe. Her offense isn't too shabby either. She grows Spd quickly, and an Iron axe forge fixes her slight Atk issues. Her flight makes you finish Part 3 chapter a little faster. I drafted Zihark over her despite having the chance because I overlooked the situation by thinking "Oh, he has better bases and a better Part 1. He's also avialable at 1-8". I actually don't regret drafting Zihark over Jill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Jill > zihark, fo sho You have a Dracoshield and an Angelic Robe you could give him. Not to mention, this is NM and there's tons of BEXP that you can give him once he caps HP/Spd/Skill/Res for to upgrade the stats he needs. Then there's Resolve. Yeah, I've got a shitload of stuff to give to him haha. Bexp does wonders for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Jill's Speed is the last thing I'm worried about. It's her horrid strength and durability that are the problems (and then you realize she's supposed to be a Wyvern Rider...). At least I have statboosters. Edited July 7, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Jill's Speed is the last thing I'm worried about. It's her horrid strength and durability that are the problems (and then you realize she's supposed to be a Wyvern Rider...). At least I have statboosters. Energy Drop for her Str and Robe for her durability. She should be fine with those and they are a great investment anyway. She worked wonders for me in HM twice, surely she'll be even better in NM. "Horrid" isn't the word I'd use anyway. It is lacking, yes, but combine Axes and 45% growth and getting out of the whole isn't that tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Am I the only one who compares Meg's and Jill's bases and growths and comes to the conclusion that Jill is little more than a flying Meg? Probably. Edited July 7, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Am I the only one who compares Meg's and Jill's bases and growths and comes to the conclusion that Jill is little more than a flying Meg? Yes, and your also the only one who doesn't look at growths and caps, which are more important than bases Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Yes, and your also the only one who doesn't look at growths and caps, which are more important than bases How are bases not more important than caps? I honestly wouldn't care if Micaiah had Lehran's caps, since she'd still be ORKO'd for most of her existence without lots of help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Bases>Caps/growths. This was proven in 0% growth runthrough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Bases>Caps/growths. This was proven in 0% growth runthrough So, Oscar/Geoff/Renning are all better than jill? Edited July 7, 2011 by Fenrir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Am I the only one who compares Meg's and Jill's bases and growths and comes to the conclusion that Jill is little more than a flying Meg? Probably. Let's analyze this, specifically "little more than a flying Meg." Well, what is a Meg? An Armor Knight first and foremost. Worst class in the game, most likely, while anything with flight is pretty much the best class in the game. Major improvement right there. But you say she is (little) more than a flying Meg. Well, bases and growths-wise, Meg isn't that bad, especially with those Str and Def bases. Her bases are pretty good for her level and her growths are, at the very least, decent. Jill's, however, are better. And growths? HP: Meg wins by 10. Str: Jill wins by 10. Skl: Jill wins by 5. Spd: Tied. Lck: Meg wins by 15, but 60% is still pretty good. Def: Tied. Res: Meg wins by 5. So if you're saying more than a flying Meg, you are rather accurate. And you know what? That's a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) So, Oscar/Geoff/Renning are all better than jill? Not in an unrestricted level up run, but they do impact you. (Talking about bases here.) If you want a comparison, no. They are not better, compare levels as well as enemies. Edited July 7, 2011 by Jhen Mohran Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) So, Oscar/Geoff/Renning are all better than jill? I would say Oscar is better than Jill. Geoffrey and Renning have availability problems (and Renning's bases aren't spectacular for when he joins, either). @Red Fox: I never said it was a bad thing (Flying Meg is obviously > Armor Knight Meg), I was implying it wasn't exactly living up to the hype I've heard of her. Of course, I could simply be prejudiced by the 2 horrible Jills I've had in previous playthroughs, but there's only so far PEMN will get someone before it starts affecting their opinions of units... Edited July 7, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) I would say Oscar is better than Jill. Geoffrey and Renning have availability problems (and Renning's bases aren't spectacular for when he joins, either). Oscar's Spd and Str are really underwhelming. @Red Fox: I never said it was a bad thing (Flying Meg is obviously > Armor Knight Meg), I was implying it wasn't exactly living up to the hype I've heard of her.Of course, I could simply be prejudiced by the 2 horrible Jills I've had in previous playthroughs, but there's only so far PEMN will get someone before it starts affecting their opinions of units... Well, Jill can clear 3-12 in 2-3 turns and 3-13 in 2, as well as working wonders throughout part 4. No other DB unit can say so much. Edited July 7, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Not in an unrestricted level up run, but they do impact you. (Talking about bases here.) If you want a comparison, no. They are not better, compare levels as well as enemies. I don't follow. I would say Oscar is better than Jill. Your wrong lol. jill is not comparable to oscar or meg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I don't follow. Me neither, i want to go to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenrir Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 lol fair enough. lilmik is back :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 But not Psych :< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuglyoshi Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 I would say Oscar is better than Jill. Well that's not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiant Dragon Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 (edited) Oscar's Spd and Str are really underwhelming. So are Jill's HP/Str/Def. And BEXP helps Oscar a lot more than it does Jill. Besides, who's to say Oscar can't take a statbooster of his own? We're giving Jill 2 or 3, after all. Well, Jill can clear 3-12 in 2-3 turns and 3-13 in 2, as well as working wonders throughout part 4. No other DB unit can say so much. I know she has the potential to do all this. It's just getting her there that's unreliable (at least for me). This is the one playthrough where I can't afford to have one of my usual Jills... Edited July 7, 2011 by Radiant Kitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilmik11 Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 And I'm back.Just gotta wait for Psych now, but I'm going to bed soon so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 So are Jill's HP/Str/Def. And BEXP helps Oscar a lot more than it does Jill. Besides, who's to say Oscar can't take a statbooster of his own? We're giving Jill 2 or 3, after all. Oscar's Spd cap is the biggest issue. Having good Spd alleviates a Str disadvantage (as do Axes), but being mediocre in both is bad. Jill also flies, so the investment is much better on her. The only way BEXP "helps" Oscar more is that he hits his caps quickly, which isn't actually that good considering how low his Spd in particular is. Either way, this isn't really an advantage in and of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Sorry, I was playing Vindictus. Goddammit, you took Laura. Heather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 Oscar's Spd cap is the biggest issue. Having good Spd alleviates a Str disadvantage (as do Axes), but being mediocre in both is bad. Jill also flies, so the investment is much better on her. The only way BEXP "helps" Oscar more is that he hits his caps quickly, which isn't actually that good considering how low his Spd in particular is. Either way, this isn't really an advantage in and of itself. 24 speed can carry him up until 3-3, and its not hard to get seeing as he has a 60% growht in it, its third highest growth along with a 21 base. After which he can master crown (getting some BEXP before that to get stre up) and his speed is of no problem anymore (assuming draft). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilmik11 Posted July 7, 2011 Author Share Posted July 7, 2011 Brom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 24 speed can carry him up until 3-3, and its not hard to get seeing as he has a 60% growht in it, its third highest growth along with a 21 base. After which he can master crown (getting some BEXP before that to get stre up) and his speed is of no problem anymore (assuming draft). Base 21 Spd doesn't double much, even in NM. I think he needs to reach about 23 to start doubling consistently, which isn't that easy considering his average-ish power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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