Fire Emblem 12 ~Heroes~ Translation Project

[Rewjeo]

Even when you typed roflroflroflrofl I still read it as rolfrolfrolfrolf. I guess that's just me.

Anyways, you can't just imagine someone saying Hrolfhrolfhrolf in a standard conversational tone. Same thing with Rororororo. Anything becomes silly as a battle cry like that. Try to make your voice sound animal like. I expect you'll find Hrolfhrolf to be more animal-like than Rororororo, which admittedly could be made to sound pretty intimidating. I know I do. And outside of saying either as a battlecry, I really fail to see how Roro is more primal than Hrolfr.

Edit: I see "Rororororo" as more of a very fast paced chant, whereas "Hrolfhrolfhrolfhrolf" is easier to make sound like an animal noise. Rorororo could certainly be very cool, but not in this situation.

Edit2: Derp, new post. Anyways, I don't imagine it with the same o sound as in Rolf, but like in wolf.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Rewjeo

[Arch]

This debate is awesome.

[Hippoman]

ITT: We attempt to find good names for things from the Japanese version of the game that will make sense in English while Dondon waves his massive ego around calling people "lemmings".

Dude. You have low turncounts, good job. Doesn't make you anymore of a vote than anyone else.

Edit: Derp, i'm talking about something about 20 pages back.

Roro's name seems good as is.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Hippoman

[Rewjeo]

So Arch, given that you're here, what's your opinion on Roro/Rollo/Hrolfr's name? I guess there's also Lolo and Loro from the kana... I actually sorta like Loro, myself.

[The Blind Archer]

Lolo

No.

I... don't have to explain why, do I? : E

[Dark Sage]

This image pretty much sums up the entire thread.

[Rewjeo]

Yes, please do. Lolo is clearly better than any of the other names. So much more badass than Hrolfr, and what could be more terrifying than "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO?" On second thought, maybe you don't have to explain. I thought of other names you could get from the Kana, and I decided to share Lolo because it was so comically bad.

[Anouleth]

Maybe the way you hear it isn't the way it's pronounced. Don't sound it as you would an English 'r'. You'll hear row-row-row-row.

It's more of an audible mash of noise. It's like a more violent 'Aum.'

Sure, but this translation patch is intended to be used by English players. Who, since they read and speak English, will pronounce an English word using English rules for pronounciation. Unless you intend to add a little disclaimer reminding them of how it's meant to be read in one way rather than another, the effect will be ruined for anyone who doesn't have advance knowledge of what the original kana meant.

[Celice]

Edit: Like eight posts appeared between me clicking fast reply, typing, and submitting. Anyways, maybe not hrolfrhrolfrr but hrolfhrolfhrolf, like above. And how does Roro become Aum?

The standard 'aum' chant is uses little force to pronounce it (there's a lot more to it, but this suffices). It just sort of... comes out. It's ease and simplicity is why it's believed to be the/a deistic term. The 'r' in this case is similar. It's from the back of the mouth, a nasal-like 'r'. 'Crayon' indicates it... if you pronounce 'crayon' correctly :E

If it becomes something too complex for the team to sort out, they can forget he ever yells his name during battle and just make him moan at Marth. This stops CHARLIECHARLIECHARLIE from being horrible.

Who, since they read and speak English, will pronounce an English word using English rules for pronounciation. Unless you intend to add a little disclaimer reminding them of how it's meant to be read in one way rather than another, the effect will be ruined for anyone who doesn't have advance knowledge of what the original kana meant.

The original katakana has nothing to do with how you might be saying the 'r' wrong. There are English words and dialects which still use the french 'r' in the pronunciation as well (like above with 'crayon'). It's not a language issue, so much as it's a personal one, where the way one person believes something is to be enunciated associates the noise with something strange and foreign. A language-excuse is only valid if language was in fact a large blanket--dialect refutes that.

[Arch]

Crap, Rewjeo found me.

I would support "Rowrow" just for the chance at inserting this into the script: "Rowrowrowrowrowrowrowrowrowyourboat!" (If you didn't see that one coming from a mile away, you can just get out).

Anyways, repeatedly shouting any name is going to be silly. That's why my other suggestion is Bob. "Bobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobboooooob." The very thought makes my appendix cry in fear.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Arch

[Rewjeo]

This pronunciation thing certainly is a problem, but I think I understand how you pronounce it now. I still like the Hrolfr one more, myself, though. I imagine it very gruff, coming from the back of the mouth, similar to the r in your rororororo. Also, I think the Hrolfr one would look much less silly if it was written as "Hrolf! Hrolf! Hrolf!" or something instead of "Hrolfhrolfhrolfhrolfhrolf."

Edited August 19, 2011 by Rewjeo

[-Cynthia-]

I'm not liking the similarity to Rolf there. Multiple Rolfs charging is just lulzy and kind of cute, not frightening in the least.

[Rewjeo]

True. There goes me thinking about how it sounds, not how it looks. What about "Hrolfr! Hrolfr!"? Does the r being added change that?

[Anouleth]

Crap, Rewjeo found me.

I would support "Rowrow" just for the chance at inserting this into the script: "Rowrowrowrowrowrowrowrowrowyourboat!" (If you didn't see that one coming from a mile away, you can just get out).

Anyways, repeatedly shouting any name is going to be silly. That's why my other suggestion is Bob. "Bobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobbobboooooob." The very thought makes my appendix cry in fear.

For me, the best solution would just be to replace it with some kind of scream or roar. I can't imagine him repeating his name (whatever that ends up being) without being reminded of Hodor from A Game of Thrones.

The original katakana has nothing to do with how you might be saying the 'r' wrong. There are English words and dialects which still use the french 'r' in the pronunciation as well (like above with 'crayon'). It's not a language issue, so much as it's a personal one, where the way one person believes something is to be enunciated associates the noise with something strange and foreign. A language-excuse is only valid if language was in fact a large blanket--dialect refutes that.

I don't see how I'm pronouncing it wrong. Given the letters "ro", it seems perfectly natural to assume the same pronounciation used in many English words such as "roll" or "rod" or "Robert". Sure, not everyone is going to pronounce it the same way as me. But not everyone is going to pronounce it the same way you imagine and for those readers, the effect will be ruined.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Anouleth

[Momo]

Roro shouts his name as he comes at you.

I don't think JULIAN JULIANNNNN is as terrifying as ROROROROROROROROOOOOOO flying at you with an axe. No less twelve of them.

Does he actually do this? Cause the idea of a bunch of Roros all doing this in unison is awesome. Like Headless Kamakazis from Serious Sam.

Which has legitimate legal reasons behind the change (blame US trademark law allowing you to hold a trademark on a public domain character somehow)

They changed it just to change it, like they did with a lot of things. Calling him Zoro would've been fine, since Funimation does that now.

[Celice]

Does he actually do this? Cause the idea of a bunch of Roros all doing this in unison is awesome. Like Headless Kamakazis from Serious Sam.

They do. And exactly. Those guys from Serious Sam are freakin' amazing. And that's pretty much what Roro is like. Just with more giant metal swinging and death and mask.

I don't see how I'm pronouncing it wrong. Given the letters "ro", it seems perfectly natural to assume the same pronounciation used in many English words such as "roll" or "rod" or "Robert". Sure, not everyone is going to pronounce it the same way as me. But not everyone is going to pronounce it the same way you imagine and for those readers, the effect will be ruined.

There is no "wrong." But if rowrow sounds abusrd, you could explore the possibility of it being a different way of saying rather than just letting "rowrow" be the definite mouthing of the word.

(However, you step on yourself here: how the english language pronounces 'roll' and 'rod/robert' are very, very different. One is like 'rowe' and one is like 'wrah' :/ Actually, the 'wra' is pretty similar to the way the 'r' could be emphasized, if the crayon example didn't come through to anyone)

I'm not liking the similarity to Rolf there. Multiple Rolfs charging is just lulzy and kind of cute, not frightening in the least.

See, if his name was left Yofa, you wouldn't have this problem it's the goddamn Ettard/Alondite shit man

[Othin]

First of all, IS, the developer that designs the games and christens the characters with their original names, is a completely separate entity from NoA or NoE, who localizes the games and makes name changes as they see fit. Certainly, NoA didn't seem to think that Chap, Stella, Dalahowe, etc. were fitting names for their respective characters in the FE9 roster, but we can't assume what sort of reasoning went behind those changes or what sort of criteria must have been met for those names to have been changed. The decision to completely overhaul a character's name is entirely subjective and I would rather not tread that territory for FE12 names not yet localized.

Second, every romanized name that IS has given to FE characters has the appropriate matching Japanese kana. The intention of the preservation of those names is obvious.

If I'm understanding the final paragraph of your post correctly, I'm still firmly of the opinion that commonly used names should be adopted for the translation. That said, if they aren't, I might as well push through viable alternate translations.

We don't have to know what exact criteria they used. Some subjective criteria existed there, some subjective criteria can be used here. Subjectivity is unavoidable in a translation like this; you have yet to give any reason why it should be avoided in this particular area more than in others.

Every romanized name, hmm? Every playable character, every boss, every NPC throughout five games? Do you have evidence of all of these? Such a claim is a bit much to ask people to believe without evidence. Furthermore, it seems to be the basis for every argument you've posted in this thread. So I don't think it's too much to ask for you to validate that basis if you want your arguments to be taken seriously. So, if you insist on saying that the FE12 translators cannot take the liberty of changing so much as a single syllable in the process of romanizing a single name, please post or link to evidence that every playable character, every boss, and every NPC throughout FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, and FE11 whose localized name appears to be based on the Japanese one fits the kana perfectly to every syllable. And that also means evidence that all the other names are not based on the Japanese names. According to your claim, all of this is true, yes? If I've misunderstood anything, just give just as complete evidence that whatever you are saying is true and we can see how much that goes to show.

So your opinion is that the translation should not attempt to be like a flexible, professional translation such as the official FE game translations, including subjectivity where it can improve the work; it should rather be a rigid, literal, amateur translation. Are you aware of this?

[Arch]

For me, the best solution would just be to replace it with some kind of scream or roar. I can't imagine him repeating his name (whatever that ends up being) without being reminded of Hodor from A Game of Thrones.

But that would be . . . straying from the kana! GASP! I guess this'll be something else we poll, to see how much demand there is for a name change on Roro. It's one that I could actually go either way on. I somewhat like the primal simplicity that is Roro, on the other hand I do realize that it is a wonky name. What happens to "FE4A IS DEAD!!! RORORORORORO!!!" if we change his name?

Edited August 19, 2011 by Arch

[FionordeQuester]

Personally, I would recommend you guys just try to find a bunch of creepy and/or scary chanting somewhere, and make his name based off of that.

[eclipse]

*clears throat*

Man, and I thought that suggestion of Aina was bad. . .Lolo, in my area, roughly approximates to "idiot". Please. . .don't do that to Roro.

[Parrhesia]

With all these Rororos and Lololos scampering about, I think Eduard Khil shines to the surface as a name. If you're going to scream out your name in rapid succession, it may as well double as a threat.

That aside, Hrolfr is a name. I don't like the idea of Roro having a name as such.

Edited August 19, 2011 by Furekitty

[Dark Sage]

How does Hrolfr even resemble Roro? And before we get into the whole "Chap to Brom" mess again, Hrolfr doesn't have the same primal nature that Roro has. I mean at this point, it's subjective but c'mon.

Plus everyone here's accustomed to Roro, though I know how well THAT will hold up .

[deuxhero]

Hmm, prheaps Ruh-ro?

>_>

<_<

[Nintenlord]

Or Har?

[Rewjeo]

How does Hrolfr even resemble Roro?

Japanese Roro->Rollo (Viking founder of Normandy, likely origin of his name) which is the Latin version of his name, Hrolfr

Hrolfr doesn't have the same primal nature that Roro has. I mean at this point, it's subjective but c'mon.

I feel like Hrolfr is much more primal than Roro. Roro is, like, what a baby would call me because they can't say my whole name yet.