Mechanics that you want

[Momo]

Help out someone who never played a older FE game. What is pursuit and why was it so OPed?

Without Pursuit, you can not double attack without a Brave weapon. The people that already have it are already broken, and loads of your foot units don't. There's a single ring that gives the skill, so other than that the rest of your guys are doomed to be terrible.

[Cysx]

I don't see how +4 skill is low. It's the same requirement for SPD with doubling, and depending on how your weapons might compares to the enemies defense, could actually do less damage than a double attack.

Well in fact, after thinking a little about it, not only is +4 skill far too low, considering it happens even more often trough the game than having +4 speed, but giving anyone the ability to deal so much damage without getting counter attacked in the process(opposite of double attacking)on a 100% basis, even by sacrificing the ability to double, seems blatantly overpowered. And about ennemies defenses, the only ennemies were doubling would have the edge(but needs to take a counter to deal full damage)is those with high hp but next to no def; these ennemies are pretty rare, and quite a joke anyway. Against any ennemy hard to defeat(like with tons of defense), double strength would clearly own. While different, FE4 and FE5's critical hit system really showed this.

And I don't know if you thought about mages too(like 2x magic at +4 skill), but siege tomes.

So I still think it's not a bad idea, but it clearly needs to be something that activates less easily, and deals less additionnal damage. Or it needs to be dancer exclusive.

[grandjackal]

I think it would be cool idea if some classes did not have the ability to double but instead had to ability to attack with 2x str if their skl was +4 over the enemy's.

Would be an interesting idea to have more ways in which having +4 over the opponent would provide other bonuses. Perhaps even with +4 more luck than the enemy (and in this theoretical FE, we would assume the enemy had a luck stat) having 4 more would double your base crit (that is crit before a weapon that has crit, like a killer edge, etc.).

Though I would like to say if this happens, I'd hope armor knights have a way to deal with this since they tend to be low Skl, Spd AND Lck units.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the new FE, I hope they take a drastic change to it's stat system. Spice things up. It's been begging for a real change anyways.

[Refa]

I don't see how +4 skill is low. It's the same requirement for SPD with doubling, and depending on how your weapons might compares to the enemies defense, could actually do less damage than a double attack.

It could never do less than a double attack barring critical hits or procing some skill. Do the math.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Refa

[BwdYeti]

It could never do less than a double attack barring critical hits or procing some skill. Do the math.

I think it would be cool idea if some classes did not have the ability to double but instead had to ability to attack with 2x str if their skl was +4 over the enemy's.

2x Str is not the same thing as 2x Dmg

However it would do more damage more often than it would do less

And I don't really like Lck giving crit, since most units have more Skl than Lck they would all some crit rate instead of just the high skill/crit boosting weapon/class crit bonus ones

[Othin]

It could never do less than a double attack barring critical hits or procing some skill. Do the math.

Regular double attack is (Str + Mt - enemy Def) x2

Dondon super attack is (Str x2) + Mt - enemy Def

If weapon Mt is more than enemy Def, you'll do more damage with a double attack. If weapon Mt is less than enemy Def, you'll do more damage with a super attack.

[Snowy_One]

There is another advantage that you aren't mentioning. The Dondongo super attack deals all its damage in one strike, as opposed to the two strikes, inbetween which there is a counter, that happens with the double.

[Thor Odinson]

So what if the unit attacking has +4 skl and +4 spd on his/her enemy? Like in the case of myrms where both stats are very high.

[Othin]

There is another advantage that you aren't mentioning. The Dondongo super attack deals all its damage in one strike, as opposed to the two strikes, inbetween which there is a counter, that happens with the double.

Indeed.

So what if the unit attacking has +4 skl and +4 spd on his/her enemy? Like in the case of myrms where both stats are very high.

I believe we're assuming Super and Pursuit attacks to be mutually exclusive: some units have one, some have the other, but never both.

[Thor Odinson]

That's fair enough, then.

[CrashGordon94]

On another note I'd like to see the 1RN system return, I know why the 2RN system exists but I don't like being lied to by the game. :/

[grandjackal]

I believe we're assuming Super and Pursuit attacks to be mutually exclusive: some units have one, some have the other, but never both.

To downplay the notion further, most myrms aren't exactly known for crazy strength. It wouldn't bring much of a boost in terms of Str. Even then, you still have to consider myrms and swordmasters are stuck to monoswords and thus have no ranged option, and are footsoldiers. Even once they start getting double digit Str, I would welcome the insanity as their strength as a swordmaster should be to absolutely melt whatever it touches.

The more I think about it, the more I would like the ideas of this sort of additional +4 with other stats insanity. Would certainly make the game a lot more interesting to say the least. Almost wanna take it to another level, like with +4 Str, you treat your target like it has half their Def.

And no, crashgordon. You wouldn't want the 1RN system back.

[Snowy_One]

How about, instead of making these automatic things, make them skills? Like, say, you get a skill called 'Overpower' that make it so that if you have +4 STR on your enemy, you get to halve their DEF and it costs 15 capacity to equip. You have 'Blitz' which also costs 15 Cap and is your traditional double, and so-forth.

[CrashGordon94]

And no, crashgordon. You wouldn't want the 1RN system back.

Actually, it hasn't given me trouble in FE4 and it's all about the hit percentage telling the truth.

[Othin]

However the abilities are addressed, FE10's skill system needs to be kept far away from future games. Skills should never be something a character equips; they should be something a character is.

[dondon151]

Actually, it hasn't given me trouble in FE4 and it's all about the hit percentage telling the truth.

80% hit rates don't need to miss any more than they already do.

[Refa]

Regular double attack is (Str + Mt - enemy Def) x2

Dondon super attack is (Str x2) + Mt - enemy Def

If weapon Mt is more than enemy Def, you'll do more damage with a double attack. If weapon Mt is less than enemy Def, you'll do more damage with a super attack.

Ah, double strength, not double mount. Sorry about that then.

[Thor Odinson]

Actually, it hasn't given me trouble in FE4 and it's all about the hit percentage telling the truth.

I don't need to have Celice dying to several consecutive 2%s thankyouverymuch.

[Snowy_One]

However the abilities are addressed, FE10's skill system needs to be kept far away from future games. Skills should never be something a character equips; they should be something a character is.

I think it would be better to hybreed it. Make some skills locked onto a character or unit type while some more generic ones can be shuffled around.

[Paperblade]

My ideal skill system would be a hybrid of FE9/10:

Innate skills cost no capacity

Removing skills deletes them (rather than reverting them to a scroll)

I think capacity is a necessity to prevent broken skill combinations (if they're only possible on specific units, those units can be balanced to prevent them from being too overpowering)

[Othin]

My ideal skill system would be a hybrid of FE9/10:

Innate skills cost no capacity

Removing skills deletes them (rather than reverting them to a scroll)

I think capacity is a necessity to prevent broken skill combinations (if they're only possible on specific units, those units can be balanced to prevent them from being too overpowering)

It really depends on how freely skills can be taught to characters. It was limited perhaps too much in TRS and Berwick (I may be wrong about TRS; I don't know much about it), but then, that was because characters each had several innate skills out of a wide variety, which I would say is more important to getting the most out of the skill system than allowing the skills to be easily taught. But under a system where skills can be more freely taught, yes, I would agree with that idea.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Othin

[arvilino]

I thought the re-usable skills from FE10 were quite nice because it never put you in the position where you don't want to use a scroll because you might need it later or want to use it on someone else and then never end up using it. Maybe if Innate skills couldn't be removed and applied to another character but skills you get from scrolls could.

[grandjackal]

I thought the re-usable skills from FE10 were quite nice because it never put you in the position where you don't want to use a scroll because you might need it later or want to use it on someone else and then never end up using it. Maybe if Innate skills couldn't be removed and applied to another character but skills you get from scrolls could.

I would second this. Pretty much was my only complaint about FE10 (though in fairness, it was made with that in mind just for the gameplay aspect. Cancel on Leonardo, seriously?), seemed kinda silly you could just rip the innate skill of an individual off them.

[Othin]

I thought the re-usable skills from FE10 were quite nice because it never put you in the position where you don't want to use a scroll because you might need it later or want to use it on someone else and then never end up using it. Maybe if Innate skills couldn't be removed and applied to another character but skills you get from scrolls could.

In other words, under that system, you never have to worry about lasting consequences of your actions, and you never make characters permanently distinct from one another.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Othin

[Snowy_One]

Not every skill should be removable, but I do agree that at least some should be easy to move around between units. It DOES reduce the tension and, if the unit ends up leveling badly, you didn't also screw yourself out of a potentially valuable skill as well. I've got another idea that could help the skill-situation. Make all skills locked once they are put on someone, but offer a special 'retrain scroll' or something that allows you unlock just one skill and move it around and uses up the scroll.