Mechanics that you want

[Duff Ostrich]

This may have been touched on in 58 pages so I apologise if I'm treading old ground, but I want the capture system brought back. It was far and away my favorite feature in Thracia, and (not so coincidentally) my least favorite thing to do in any other Fire Emblem game is purchasing weapons and from the shops. I also want the enemy to be given a larger range of tools, such as dancers, warp staves, etc. I suppose that's also just like Thracia, and while I don't want IS to simply remake that title I would like to see many of its ideas revisited.

Also: I want playable brigands. The videos for this game show them wearing wolfskin pelts or something and that makes them even more awesome.

[Dark Sage]

I thought FE12 did the best job of handling 1-2 Range weapons. Handaxes and Javelins can be useful, but their low MT sort of balances out, so often instead of just sitting around waiting for everyone to die to your Handaxe, you don't want to equip your handaxe and use something else that could KO. The enemies in FE12 got Spears and Tomahawks (and in the harder difficulties, they were forged) which are more powerful, so 1-2 range could still be a threat to your units.

I have the idea of a stat called Riding. All mounted units get it and it functions like Weapon Rank. As the mounted unit rescues, engages in combat, or uses staves, its riding stat increases. As the unit's rank increases, the more things the mounted unit can do with a horse such as the following:

E rank: 1 move advantage over units of the same tier.

D rank: Aid stat becomes equal to 25-Con.

C rank: FE7 canto

B rank: Move advantage over other units of the same tier becomes a 2 move advantage.

A rank: FE10 canto

If a foot unit promotes into a mounted class, their Riding rank starts at an E rank.

It's not a perfect idea by any means, but it is a start. Mounts could also suffer the FE10 penalties too (like mounts in indoor maps, terrain penalties when moving, etc.). Obviously this system works best when using the GBA Con system.

[Thor Odinson]

Fuck making sense, I really wish people would stop going for realism.

There are some things that can be glossed over for realism if it can somewhat make sense. Pulling a bow in someone's face and not expecting to be cut down is not one of them. Not even Cloud's busterblade is that unrealistic.

As I've said, Crossbows are okay for 1-2 range bow as long as they don't double since reloading time needs to be accounted for, and 1-2 range weapons of the lance and axe variety gets a MT nerf like in FE12. I agree with Sage in FE12 did do a good job of handling that. Javelins and handaxes are no longer op'd to hell. Hell, I once put three Snipers on my team (reclassed) just because that chapter had a fuckton of walls and Javelins don't do crap. Because they're actually pretty damn good now.

[Dark Sage]

I think Snipers were at their best in FE11 and FE12 and Swordmasters in FE12. Snipers were great in FE11 because of high base stats, critical bonus, and an instant C in bows, so they could have instant utility and in H5, dealing damage without taking a counter was a very big advantage. Same with FE12, but with more flying targets in that game and more dangerous enemies which required the Sniper's higher AS and ability to attack without taking a counter. Horseman was a good class in FE12 if you had a good enough sword or bow rank too. I honestly think that bow units were done right in the Akaneia remakes and there's not much more you can do to improve on them.

[Thor Odinson]

I liked SM's in 6 as well. Okay, just Rutger because he's ridiculous, but since hitrates are so low in that game swords are actually useful since they'll consistently hit things, and critrates are far more reliable than in 7 or 8's. But yeah, 12 SM is nice since they have more movement than their other foot counterparts, aside from Hero, and the avo bonus is actually useful since dodge is otherwise extremely unreliable due to the change in formula.

Snipers and Horsemen are <3 in 12. So much.

SM's would've been pretty great in 4 if movement wasn't so ridiculously inbalanced in that game. Their offenses are great and magic swords don't suck, it's just that movement is so emphasized in that game it's hard to do much without a horse without personal favoritism.

[Aethereal]

There's plenty of reason to have it, "being like every other weapon type" is bull, the vast majority of Bows would still be 2-range, there's no problem with having well-balanced 1-2 range Bows.

And everybody who understands how to play would make sure their archers ended their turn with the 1-2 Bow equipped, which means they would be exactly the same on enemy phase. The difference between bows and every other physical weapon, despite the fact that bows are usually underpowered, is the only meaningful functional difference in the game. Giving functional differences, when balanced correctly, makes games a lot more interesting. Bows can be balanced, as shown by FE10!Shinon, and apparently FE11 Snipers(Just going off a few comments here, I don't know FE11 balance well) while keeping their unique role, which seems good to me.

[Dark Sage]

Now that I think about it, FE12 had decent class balance, at least among promoted classes. IIRC, the only really inferior classes in FE12 are Hero, Warrior, Druid, and General. Generals and Druids had their niche (A reclassed Paola/Sheeda/Katua/MU made great generals thanks to good speed and defense with the class having Dragonpike and Bow access, Druids were a little more durable but a little weaker than Sages in magic), as did Hero if your axe rank was high enough and it was only inferior if you had Male Reclass Limits removed. Warriors just sucked as usual because IS can't seem to make warriors a good class other than in the Tellius games.

Unpromoted classes though I admit had balance issues. Myrmidons were as usual worse than Mercenaries (unless you were Oguma), cavaliers were as usual the superior class, archers and armors sucked ass, DMs were made obsolete by mages, pirates were almost always better than fighters.

Also I'm disappointed nobody commented on my Riding stat idea

[Paperblade]

I don't understand why everyone wants to lower the minimum range of Bows when if we want realism and interesting design it would make more sense to increase their maximum range and perhaps apply a hit penalty based on the distance. This:

A. Makes Bows more useful without homogenizing weapon types

B. Gives an easily tweaked variable to balance it (with the added bonus of making overkill Skill/Luck/hitfromsupports useful!)

C. Keeps Bows' niche as a "utility" weapon type (ie killing flyers, doing decent damage while avoiding counters)

D. Allows them to keep out of enemy range, which allows them to somewhat make up for their weaknesses

E. Makes Snipers actual Snipers :|

Or we can just play FE12 where it's useful due to falling under the "not getting your shit fucked by counters" category while not having awful offense (lolmagebases)

[CrashGordon94]

There are some things that can be glossed over for realism...

Like everything at all with no exceptions whatsoever.

I just thought of something else I'd like! I'd like IS to completely dispose with trying to introduce realism AT ALL! It does nothing good and makes everything a hell of a lot less fun.

[BwdYeti]

I don't understand why everyone wants to lower the minimum range of Bows when if we want realism and interesting design it would make more sense to increase their maximum range and perhaps apply a hit penalty based on the distance.

This very much. Longer range on bows would do a lot toward balancing thrown weapons too, since there would be something reliable that could hit outside thrown weapon range

[bottlegnomes]

Now that I think about it, FE12 had decent class balance, at least among promoted classes. IIRC, the only really inferior classes in FE12 are Hero, Warrior, Druid, and General. Generals and Druids had their niche (A reclassed Paola/Sheeda/Katua/MU made great generals thanks to good speed and defense with the class having Dragonpike and Bow access, Druids were a little more durable but a little weaker than Sages in magic), as did Hero if your axe rank was high enough and it was only inferior if you had Male Reclass Limits removed. Warriors just sucked as usual because IS can't seem to make warriors a good class other than in the Tellius games.

Unpromoted classes though I admit had balance issues. Myrmidons were as usual worse than Mercenaries (unless you were Oguma), cavaliers were as usual the superior class, archers and armors sucked ass, DMs were made obsolete by mages, pirates were almost always better than fighters.

Also I'm disappointed nobody commented on my Riding stat idea

God, I wish I could play FE12. Stupid macs.

Anyway, I like your idea of mount rank. I had a similar idea. It was kind of like a combination of weapon level from 1-3 and weapon rank from the rest. The more you rode a mount, whatever kind, the higher the level went, but some characters grew more quickly than others. Everyone had a rank in it and so anyone could ride a mount. It went:

E - slight reduction to stats, could only use basic mounts.

D - no costs, could only use basic mounts. (lowest level any classic mounted characters, eg the Cain and Able, would have)*

C - no costs, could use more advanced mounts (lowest level most more experienced mounted characters, eg Marcus or Isadora, would have)*

B - same as C

A - same as C

S - slight bonus regarldess of mount, could use any mount

*Could have higher, but that would be the lowest, since they have experience it wouldn't make sense for them to be any lower IMO. Varies on character, like Lyn mode Sain would have D while EM or HM Sain would have C and Marcus would have B or A.

Different mounts would give different bonuses, like in Berwick Saga, and there would be a rank for each type of mount, so horse, pegasus, and dragon/wyvern. Each character would have a different growth with each type of mount, so someone might be great with horses but terrible with pegasi, also male pegasus riders dammit.

Lastly, there'd be a limited number of mounts, so you couldn't have everyone mounted all the time.

Also, an idea I kinda stole from someone on GFAQs. Training camps outside battle. Instead of deploying a unit, you could send him or her to a training camp that would cost something, not sure what, but the more exp you gain, the more it would cost. That way, you could raise low level units more easily.

A thought I had relating to this, also somewhat stolen from someone on GFAQs, would be to have low total growths. For example, a fairly good growth spread would be HP 30 Str 20 Mag 0 Skl 20 Spd 20 Luck 40 Def 15 Res 5. Going to battle would increase all growths by a decent amount, eg HP +20, Def and Res +15, Luck +0, and the rest +10. Going to different trainings would increase stat growths by different amounts, so say one would focus on strength or skill or speed, like by say 30, but would neglect other stats. Also, through training you could teach them different personal skills, but more unusual ones, and only one or a few people could go to those training sessions. There would still be manuals or rings for more basic skills, though.

I feel like this idea could get way too complicated way to quickly, though. Thoughts?

As for bows, I'm all for upping range and giving snipers good combat, so basically like RD Shinon.

Edited November 24, 2011 by bottlegnomes

[Thor Odinson]

God, I wish I could play FE12. Stupid macs.

You can. I've played it twice already. Desmume works fine.

[bottlegnomes]

You can. I've played it twice already. Desmume works fine.

I can't get translation patches to work And I'm too lazy to try playing it in Japanese. Though I wasn't aware that any DS emulators were available for mac. Thanks for that info

Edited November 24, 2011 by bottlegnomes

[Thor Odinson]

Translation patch is a windows-only file, yeah. I'm too lazy to play in English since I can read chinese and most of the menus are in Kanji so that's good enough for me. :P I'll wait for the whole thing to be translated, since supports are what I'm most interested in.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[bottlegnomes]

At least I can try to play it now, and maybe learn some kanji. Thanks for the DS emulator.

[Snowy_One]

Hmmm... Possible idea. Make 1-2 range swords/axes/lances have a 'reload' time maybe? Ergo, you use one on a phase, then can't use it on the next. So if you use a hand axe on the PP, you can't use it on the EP.

[Othin]

You know, giving higher tier Archers an innate 2-3 range worked well for FERD Archers Shinon.

It's not just about archers. It's that Javelins and Hand Axes are fucking broken.

IS isn't exactly known for throwing personal weapons on a lot of characters, and it would be weird to balance a limited use item with long-term tactical skills. 1-2 range weapons in a game where all other 1-2 range options have been removed would almost guarantee that person a slot in your party for a fair portion of the game (as long as the weapon lasts), provided there's no huge flaw with the character. I mean, it *might* work if you have it attached to a lord or an Est melee archetype (to make training them feasible rather than almost impossible)...but it's more the exception than the rule.

Also, having a fixed MT on a weapon with no STR scaling was probably one of the stupidest things I've ever seen implemented in a FE game. If you really strive so much for realism, we can do one of two things:

1) Have crossbows scale from SKL instead of STR...more skilled archers would have more precise aim, piercing vital areas at close range more often (less preferred).

2) Redesign the short bow from FE7 to be the 1-2 range weapon. Think about it -- it's small, compact, wieldy, and easy to use, and would be the bow you could most likely fire quickly at close range (more preferred).

Weapons and skills worked out fine in FE5, although what IS would actually do is entirely irrelevant to this discussion, since as evidenced by the games they've attempted to make without Kaga, they aren't going to do jack shit. And a weapon with 30-40 uses isn't going to last long if it's the sole reason you use a unit.

As for crossbows, I have to say that I'm again drawn to prefer the Berwick Saga take on it: Have separate types of arrows that can be used, primarily scaling Mt in exchange for cost and availability, allowing crossbows to increase their power as the game goes on without needing to use Str.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Othin

[Rewjeo]

It looks like this has been touched on recently, but what do people think of the old idea of higher customization on each unit, like what mounts/armor they have. Maybe even give everyone a basic rank in multiple or even every weapon type, but give some way to strongly encourage a specific style for different units. I'm certainly intrigued by this idea, but it would be a pretty risky move. I could see it being great or being terrible.

[bottlegnomes]

It looks like this has been touched on recently, but what do people think of the old idea of higher customization on each unit, like what mounts/armor they have. Maybe even give everyone a basic rank in multiple or even every weapon type, but give some way to strongly encourage a specific style for different units. I'm certainly intrigued by this idea, but it would be a pretty risky move. I could see it being great or being terrible.

I was kinda toying around with those ideas as well. I feel pretty much the same way. It'd be an interesting idea, but it would be kinda touchy. If not done properly, everyone would end up pretty much the same, but if done well, it'd be cool. The armor, I'm not so sure about. Maybe if it were like one piece of armor, but not entire suits.

[Rothene]

If I wanted so much customisation, I'd stick with FFTactics or Tactics Ogre: Let us cling together...

[Refa]

Hand Axes and Javelins are unsalvageable, I'd say. Best to remove them completely, and leave physical 1-2 range to extremely rare weapons like Spears and Tomahawks, and maybe a couple of personal weapons.

Eh, I thought they worked well in FE4. Ranged weapons were quite useless in that game.

Maybe if Archers had their EXP for combat increased(in the same way FE7 and FE8 thieves get more due to "class power" in the formula) they'd be better to use without having to give them 1-2 combat. Since part of the problem is they get fewer rounds of combat than most other characters.

That makes a lot of sense.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Refa

[Paperblade]

Hand Axes and Javelins were awful in FE4 because they weighed waaaaaay too much and had terrible might relative to any other weapon you had available and were relatively balanced in FE12 because they had like 3-4 might.

[Othin]

Eh, I thought they worked well in FE4. Ranged weapons were quite useless in that game.

Ranged weapons were also limited in FE4, and I don't think anyone wants FE4's Wt system to return.

[Anouleth]

Ranged weapons were also limited in FE4, and I don't think anyone wants FE4's Wt system to return.

I wouldn't mind. It's better than the watered down weight system in later FEs, where weapons have weight and weigh you down only for certain characters. Obviously it would have to be adjusted from Axes being so outrageously heavy or Wind being outrageously light and Iron/Steel/Silver weapons all having the same weight, but I think if you're going to associate speed penalties with stronger weapons, you should probably apply that to all units. I mean, it's better than having Body Ring!Miledy charging around ORKOing enemies with Javelins.

[Othin]

I wouldn't mind. It's better than the watered down weight system in later FEs, where weapons have weight and weigh you down only for certain characters. Obviously it would have to be adjusted from Axes being so outrageously heavy or Wind being outrageously light and Iron/Steel/Silver weapons all having the same weight, but I think if you're going to associate speed penalties with stronger weapons, you should probably apply that to all units. I mean, it's better than having Body Ring!Miledy charging around ORKOing enemies with Javelins.

Hm... You may have a point.