Which one

[eclipse]

KoT you remind me of myself, your a pretty good FE player but your opinions are very different from several professionals and sometimes end up with one sided debates that are normally not in your/our favor.

the only differences is that i stopped trying to pretend like i know it all when i talk to a person that does know it all

Depends on what you're trying to defend, and why. Me taking up the side of "Erk is better than Pent in every way, shape, and form" is not gonna end well.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

KoT you remind me of myself, your a pretty good FE player but your opinions are very different from several professionals and sometimes end up with one sided debates that are normally not in your/our favor.

the only differences is that i stopped trying to pretend like i know it all when i talk to a person that does know it all

It's not that I believe I know it all (and, yes, I'm accused of it a fair amount), it's more that I tend to be extremely stubborn/defensive conerning my opinions which (I think) makes me sound falsely demeaning.

I mean, Nino has a serious issue with leveling, for sure. But her stats post-promotion do compare with Pent's and blow Erk's out of the water (which, ofc, they should, since Erk is available from early Lyn/E/H mode on). She can become a great character overall (and you'd be hard-pressed to find a reason not to field her for most chapters if she's close in level to the main party), and IS better than Pent at killing Darin and Brendan and technically Jerme. Pent just has the A staves where people can just go "Staves, ****ing awesome!" (because FE7 staves really are) and a lead on magic on both Serra and Prissy, making him slightly more potent at using Warp/Rescue than either of the two ladies. Realistically, though, you can go Serra/Priscilla + Nino and do roughly as well as Pent + whomever, unless the extra 1 or possibly 2 range on warp/rescue makes a significant difference (Final isn't THAT big of a map, though, by FE7 standards). And the more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that Pent + Nino beats both of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm hardly saying Pent is anything less than great (and he's even better when HM EXP cuts mean you're frankly not even getting Erk and Serra to the point where they break even with him statistically). I'm just saying Nino can be in that same league as well. Now, if I can't get Nino reliably up in my HHM run, I'll personally post my failue on this thread for all to see. I'm not too proud to admit I'm wrong when it's a logical conclusion, but I don't just lie down and accept anything vets here say as gospel -- I simply want experience/numbers to back up their opinion, which they usually have.

P.S. I made the stupid mistake of leaving Erk/Lucius too low level going into Living Legend, making the level stupidly difficult to low turn while stealing/digging up everything of value. Mainly, it's because Lucius is OHKO'd by the initial wyverns with a 50% hit rate, and Erk is nearly OHKO'd by them with approximately the same avoid and only has 5 RES for some reason. It's coming down to luck, which is simply not going my way atm.

Sorry, eclipse, it's going to be a couple days before I get a good enough turn count to move on unless I somehow find a better way to do the chapter without screwing my experience rank .

Edited November 18, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Life]

P.S. I made the stupid mistake of leaving Erk/Lucius too low level going into Living Legend, making the level stupidly difficult to low turn while stealing/digging up everything of value. Mainly, it's because Lucius is OHKO'd by the initial wyverns with a 50% hit rate, and Erk is nearly OHKO'd by them with approximately the same avoid and only has 5 RES for some reason. It's coming down to luck, which is simply not going my way atm.

Sorry, eclipse, it's going to be a couple days before I get a good enough turn count to move on unless I somehow find a better way to do the chapter without screwing my experience rank .

Use the fliers and Lyn.

[Parrhesia]

All of the above, so damn much.

So glad I got that argument as I was passing by to vote~~~

[eranjial]

Not to jump into the debate, but I was actually wondering who you'd put that sexy body ring on?

[MacLovin]

Isadora is getting the body ring, and I just robed her.

[eranjial]

Ahh good good, yup Nino's 100% useless to use now then.

Well maybe not 100% but definitely not really worth it.

And is Isadora any good? I've never and I do mean NEVER used her.

[MacLovin]

I guess paladins are always useful in the gba fes

[Integrity]

Isadora's pretty solid. Nothing incredible, but pretty solid.

[MacLovin]

And I think I'm going to go with all of Geitz, Hawkeye, and Harken.

Isadora, B Harken, B Geitz and c Legault?

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Isadora's pretty solid. Nothing incredible, but pretty solid.

I can't stand her base DEF, though, ugh. I could literally promote Hector mode base Sain and tie her in DEF...and the 3 CON difference between her and Sain/Kent doesn't help matters, since her big benefit is the extra SPD she has.

I never use her.

[MacLovin]

LHM Paladin Sain is the one I'm using.

[Raven]

Isadora maining Axes is pretty great. She was definitely amongst my top percentage of pre-promoted units in my HHM pre-promotes only run.

[dondon151]

Isadora is by far the best Body Ring candidate. She loses 2 fewer AS from practically anything good and 12 aid isn't significantly worse than 14 aid.

[Dark Sage]

Isadora is also an excellent candidate for an Angelic Robe. It increases her HP up to 35, which makes her durability quite serviceable.

So far I've been using her on my HHM efficiency run and she's one of my best units.

Isadora's pretty solid. Nothing incredible, but pretty solid.

You take that back! Isadora is one of the greatest Paladins to grace my GBA screen!

[Anouleth]

Isadora is a badass, but she's no Midia.

[Dark Sage]

And Pent is no Boah. Or Wendell.

[Integrity]

You take that back! Isadora is one of the greatest Paladins to grace my GBA screen!

I'll very gladly take it back if I'm wrong. FE7 isn't really my forte, so much of my knowledge is rusty - but I'd sincerely like to believe Isadora is as incredible as I think.

[Dark Sage]

I am exaggerating her worth but she is a lot better than people give her credit for.

[Integrity]

Fair enough.

Thing is, I really LIKE Isadora but I don't know if it's safe to preach that she's amazing or anything.

TEACH ME WISE ONE

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

I am exaggerating her worth but she is a lot better than people give her credit for.

I guess I don't get the love for Isadora. A 20/1 Kent basically has 10 HP, 1.6 STR, 4.5 SKL, 0.55 SPD, 3.75 DEF, 0.75 RES, and 3 CON on her at base (and since pretty much everything except an iron sword has >6 WT, that means he realistically has an extra 2-3 AS on her). She has...4.2 LUK on him. His growths are universally better than hers sans SPD (she has 50 versus his 45) and LUK (she has 45 to his 20). Kent also has craploads of availability, eseentially having an average starting level of 8/-- or 9/-- at Noble Lady of Caelin and having plenty of uses (because of his high MOV alone) and thus opportunities to gain levels in HHM.

And while Marcus has the whole "Use me in early game, GTFO, or go insane like KoT", Isadora has "Oh hai~ I'm going to try to help you in Kinship's Bond, but I get nearly 2RKO'd by many of the enemies there and sort of fail in attack without silvers/short spears."

If you want to use her, by all means do so. It's not like she's Dorcas or my Bartre who fails to gain a point in SPD for 8-10 levels...she won't fail, but she isn't optimal.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Raven]

Isadora's great, although I think she's the only pre-promote I've ever had to baby for a few levels.

[MacLovin]

Using Isadora, with a Body ring and Robe.

Hawkeye with afa's drops+ Speedwing and Brave axe

(He's getting to be my fave axe user for fe7)

Geitz with Dracosheild/robe?? and Brave bow?

Harken with Killers till he gets silvers

[dondon151]

I guess I don't get the love for Isadora. A 20/1 Kent basically has 10 HP, 1.6 STR, 4.5 SKL, 0.55 SPD, 3.75 DEF, 0.75 RES, and 3 CON on her at base (and since pretty much everything except an iron sword has >6 WT, that means he realistically has an extra 2-3 AS on her).

That's because 20/1 Kent by that point in the game is completely unreasonable. Efficiency players who try hard have Kent at 14/1 at best, and he loses some important parameters to her. You also said yourself that units "shouldn't" be hitting 20/1 until like chapter 28 or so in ranked.

And while Marcus has the whole "Use me in early game, GTFO, or go insane like KoT", Isadora has "Oh hai~ I'm going to try to help you in Kinship's Bond, but I get nearly 2RKO'd by many of the enemies there and sort of fail in attack without silvers/short spears."

Isadora also can't get hit by enemies in chapter 22 if she leverages the weapon triangle correctly. Her offense is also actually really good because few units can boast both 13 str, enough AS to double, and access to silvers. She, Marcus, and Sain are exclusive to the club of units who can ORKO chapter 23x enemies (even disregarding her 8 move).

I don't know why you so obstinately hold on to this position. You said yourself that you have followed my videos. I have proven time and again that a majority of prepromotes are adequate, if not optimal, for use.

[Life]

I don't know why you so obstinately hold on to this position. You said yourself that you have followed my videos. I have proven time and again that a majority of prepromotes are adequate, if not optimal, for use.

dondon, you know that's not a fair comment. Your videos show growth units as useless because they aren't allowed to gain the stats needed for them to be on par or better than prepromotes. Sure, your FE6 videos show Percival as a god but that's because Alan and Lance aren't allowed to achieve their full potential.

Yes, prepromotes are adequate. Are they optimal? In your runs when you handicap half your team, yes. In an average ranking or efficiency run? Not always and sometimes never.