FE4 Mafia - Game over

[Scarlet]

Yes, it would make sense from a certain point of view.

And to continue the metagaming, I'm also a good enough player to notice that trying something like this as mafia would be ridiculously obvious. There's always WIFOM, obviously, and... ...I'm starting to get confused myself.

I haven't proven myself as town, that's true. In fact, if you think about it, in the off possibility that both I and Proto were mafia, not even my role would be proven (he could just pretend to have been persuaded).

So, in order to truely prove my role, I could let the town decide whom I should persuade next, and for whom they should vote. The tracker, if it exists, can even track me while doing so. Of course, this might prompt the actual mafia to employ whatever roles they may have (hooker, driver or whatever) to screw with it, again giving us little to no usable information.

Or I could just idle. That was the original plan, anyway.

Also, Proto, get your ass in here and say something.

[Deliriyum]

I'm not sure whether continuing to pursue info from Proto will be very productive. Then again, I have moments like these every game and eventually it will look like I'm completely counter-productive.

[Psych]

....When we start to WINFOM about WINFOM that's when things get complicated.

##Unvote

And um....I feel like Raymond outing himself as Persuader kinda shows he's town. The Mafia persuader would more likely just sit in the shadows and persuade.

[Scarlet]

But instead of concerning ourselves with my role when I have at least claimed and attempted to provide proof for it, shouldn't we concentrate on getting more people to talk for the time being? There are a lot of people who have said next to nothing so far.

Notable ones are:

- Ether (hasn't posted)

- Strawman (1 post)

- Furet (1 post)

- Iris (1 post)

You know you're doing it wrong when subs who aren't even playing yet have more posts than you.

##Vote: Ether

Talk.

[Darros]

Well, 1 vote aint gonna do much.

##Vote: Ether

[riariadne]

##Vote Furet

part contrarian part legit pressurevote

[Paperblade]

typical clueless Proto response

You pass for now

##Unvote, ##Vote: Iris

Voting for other people is too mainstream

[Snike]

Well Diavolo has decided to not be productive and suggest any other alternatives, soooo...

My vote is going to remain, for now.

I would like Ducky to grace us with words, though.

[Prims]

I would vote Raymond for softclaiming Godfather, but the Persuader claim makes that pretty unlikely. Thinking the way he responded to Proto's post was weird though since he wasn't on the wagon.

I'm not reading Proto's reaction to ~early wagons~ one way or another, but I think it's useless to leave my vote on him at this juncture.

##Unvote

##Vote Diavolo

How is not pressing somebody going to be unproductive when earlygame it's our most reliable way to get people to find something to talk about? You have no vote of your own, and I don't see you suggesting any better ways to start discussion, so it's looks like you're just suggesting something that would slow down the game.

I don't like the early Proto / Raymond scumbuddy theories, by the way. The gambit seems like it would entirely pointless in that situation, and scum tend not to gambit unless it has a high payoff for them on the grounds that pointless gambits draw attention (which scum doesn't want).

[Deliriyum]

I would vote Raymond for softclaiming Godfather, but the Persuader claim makes that pretty unlikely. Thinking the way he responded to Proto's post was weird though since he wasn't on the wagon.

I'm not reading Proto's reaction to ~early wagons~ one way or another, but I think it's useless to leave my vote on him at this juncture.

##Unvote

##Vote Diavolo

How is not pressing somebody going to be unproductive when earlygame it's our most reliable way to get people to find something to talk about? You have no vote of your own, and I don't see you suggesting any better ways to start discussion, so it's looks like you're just suggesting something that would slow down the game.

I don't like the early Proto / Raymond scumbuddy theories, by the way. The gambit seems like it would entirely pointless in that situation, and scum tend not to gambit unless it has a high payoff for them on the grounds that pointless gambits draw attention (which scum doesn't want).

The objective of me not voting for Proto was:

A) you guys don't like bandwagoning

B) I don't think Proto would ever say much in his defence, he tends to just wait for the votes to go away. If he still had votes towards the end of the phase, he might softclaim. His softcaim would be virtually useless because he could say whatever he wanted in order to convince us not to lynch him and try to keep the mafia from targeting him.

Disclaimer-the above is very hypothetical, and obviously not 100% assured

I have no relevant thoughts or suspicions yet, other than inactive people should be active. I'd rather not be redundant, but ##Vote: Iris

[Deliriyum]

Actually I'm going to be flakey here.

##Unvote

##Vote: Paperblade

You've been active but haven't done anything except policy vote Proto then vote for an inactive person. Perhaps its more than I've done but it doesn't seem like something you normally do.

[Paperblade]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Core

Bandwagoning

...

##Unvote, ##Vote: Iris

just kidding

Anyway, point B is very, um, interesting to say the least. You think that Proto doesn't like to contribute ("he just waits for people to unvote him"), but you don't seem bothered by that? I'm not sure if I like that.

[Paperblade]

Also should I just change votes if the person I'm voting doesn't respond within 12 hours? That seems like an easy way for mafia to get out of pressure voting and escape having to contribute during the RVS.

And what do you mean by "doesn't seem like something you normally do?" Not to be rude, but I don't think I've actually played a NOC game with you other than perhaps Schoolboy, where I died Night 1 and policy voted Day 1.

[Deliriyum]

My thoughts on Proto are a bit scattered. What I meant to say is that I think he will contribute, but I don't think he will directly react to people pressuring him.

Regardless, he offers more than many other people in terms of contribution.

[Deliriyum]

Yes, I believe Schoolboy is the only NOC game we were in together.

##Unvote

Since I don't have a relevant basis for comparison, I'll unvote. It just seems that you are generally more productive. Or more likely its just D1 and nobdy knows anything yet.

Yes, I'll go with the latter.

[Paperblade]

I pressured WoMC, asked everyone to claim their PRs (which we obviously can't do this game because we have no PRs), thought Proto was being weird for doing Proto things and buddying with Blitz, pressured SDS who had yet to post (hey this sounds familiar), compiled a vote count, and complained that people no lynched.

Then during the night, I complained a bit more, made a couple snide remarks, and pointed out I thought Blitz was telling the truth about something.

Then I died.

So, to rebut your point despite you having already unvoted, no, I don't think I'm acting significantly different other than whining more during the night.

I would, however, like Iris to post and maybe give thoughts on this little argument, Proto/Raymond Persuader stuff (I am inclined to believe that Raymond is some form of persuader), and maybe Core in general since Snike and Prims seem to think he's trying to stifle discussion.

[Prims]

I don't see the point in focusing pressure on one particular lurker halfway into Day 1 of all times. If they don't come post and talk, then they're disrespectful to the mods and also not playing to win if they're town (since town benifits from discussion), so it should be their obligation to post, not our obligation to make them post.

As for Diavolo/Core/whoever, "They're doing something they don't usually do" alone isn't really a valid reason to attack somebody regardless of whether it's true or not in this situation, because people can experiment with their playstyle and this doesn't necessarily make them scum. Also, why are you dropping all charges completely when you seemed like you wanted to go after a lurker before switching to Paperblade?

I want Proto to post :words: so I can get a read on him.

[Deliriyum]

>.<

##Vote: Iris

Still want her to participate, just didn't bother to replace my vote.

[Paperblade]

Proto is on IRC atm so he should post soon, assuming his internet isn't being too lame

[Scarlet]

I would vote Raymond for softclaiming Godfather,

Lawyers would also be possible, actually.

Actually, why am I pointing out things that question my own innocence?

There's a lot of very interesting logic being thrown around, by the way. I'm gonna re-read the thread, some of this doesn't sit right with me.

[Kriemhild]

So now there are theories that me and RAYKITTY~ are both scum and are trying to mess with the Town? You know, if we were both Mafia and we staged all of this, I don't think I would ever agree to vote for Kay to pretend to be persuaded. But whatever, even I don't know if RAYKITTY~ is Town or Mafia. I am, however, curious as to why he would torture me choose to publicly announce his role at a time when it was neither demanded, nor able to provide us with any relevant information for us to work with. Care to explain your intentions, RAYKITTY~?

[uguu]

So now there are theories that me and RAYKITTY~ are both scum and are trying to mess with the Town? You know, if we were both Mafia and we staged all of this, I don't think I would ever agree to vote for Kay to pretend to be persuaded. But whatever, even I don't know if RAYKITTY~ is Town or Mafia. I am, however, curious as to why he would torture me choose to publicly announce his role at a time when it was neither demanded, nor able to provide us with any relevant information for us to work with. Care to explain your intentions, RAYKITTY~?

I could probably guess.

A. Mafia won't bother attacking him since he's ONLY a persuader

B. He's hoping that he could become legitimately cleared as town later

C. Uhh I was gonna put something else here but then I forgot, whoops

[Kriemhild]

I could probably guess.

A. Mafia won't bother attacking him since he's ONLY a persuader

A Persuader is really dangerous near the end of the game. It has the potential to cut down one of the Mafia's votes and add in an extra vote to someone else.

B. He's hoping that he could become legitimately cleared as town later

If he'll be cleared as Town later, he still has no reason to claim Persuader now.

C. Uhh I was gonna put something else here but then I forgot, whoops

Probably that he's actually Mafia?

[Scarlet]

Omitting my own posts, this is everything I deem even remotely relevant that happened D1 so far:

- Paperblade voted for Proto.

- Psych voted for Proto.

- Prims voted for Proto.

- Prims asked about my choice of targets.

- Core points out that one forced vote D1 is rather harmless.

- Snike votes Core.

- Kay posts meaningless stuff.

- Proto votes for Kay because he's forced to and essentially goes on to ask "why me" instead of actually saying something meaningful.

- Kay points out that my role is proven, but not my alignment.

- Darros says he's getting the feeling Proto and I are both mafia.

- Hika posts solely to agree with Darros.

- Nightmare posts something unrelated.

- Rein points out the mafia could be WIFOMing, and adds that he'd like a character claim if the rules were to allow it.

- Kay mentions that Proto is involved in almost all of the mafia's WIFOMs here in SF, and that that's "the kind of thing he would do".

- Core babbles something about him being counter-productive and implies it would be better to pressure someone else.

- Psych feels that I'm town for outing myself, giving the reasoning that a mafia persuader probably wouldn't.

- After I vote for Ether, Darros also votes for Ether.

- Rein votes for Furet.

- Paper votes for Iris.

- Snike is not satisfied with Core's response and says he would also like to hear from Strawman.

- Prims gives his thoughts on my persuader claim and Proto and switches his vote to Core.

- Core defends himself by claiming that he didn't want to bandwagon Proto, partially because he doesn't expect him to actually defend himself until near phase end, and goes on to vote for Iris.

- Core immediately switches his vote to Paper, claiming that he behaves differently than usual.

- Paper switches his vote to Iris and questions Core's logic.

- Core clarifies what he meant to say before, and claims that Proto contributes more than many other people.

- Core unvotes.

- Paper denies that he's acting differently than usual and mentions that he'd like Iris to say something on the Persuader matter and Core.

- Prims posts that it's the target's responsibility to respond to pressure, not the town's responsibility to wait for a response, and proceeds to question Core's logic as well. He also wants Proto to post so he can get a read off him.

- Core votes Iris again.

- Proto finally responds to the me/him situation, and claims that he wouldn't agree to vote for Kay if it was staged. He then proceeds to ask why I claimed.

- Hika responds to Proto's question with some guesses despite it being directed at me.

- Proto responds to Hika's response.

I noticed the following that I don't like:

- Darros votes with me despite posting earlier that he's getting the feeling I'm mafia. If you're town, why the hell would you vote with someone whom you suspect to be mafia?

- Core's logic is shady. He's either become a really bad player, isn't really paying attention to the game, or is mafia doing a bad job at active-lurking.

- Something seems off about Hika. He's lurking.

I am, however, curious as to why he would torture me choose to publicly announce his role at a time when it was neither demanded, nor able to provide us with any relevant information for us to work with. Care to explain your intentions, RAYKITTY~?

I chose to claim this early because nobody demanded it, because proving my role is easiest and least potentially harmful to the town early in the game, and because town persuader doesn't seem like a role that would become a priority target for the mafia if it becomes known. I probably wouldn't have claimed this early had I gotten damn near any other role. But I figured, why not? Gives the town more to work with.

[Parrhesia]

(... Have I ever been active at the start of a game?)

Anyway, given the flurry of activity happened when I was asleep and/or other things (or, um, yesterday, which was... a weekend... in the middle of the summer holidays...) I can't make any meaningful contributions. All I can say is that I'm inclined to trust Raymond, as it just seems, well, pointless to draw so much attention to himself without protection. Adding more pressure to Iris seems highly redundant, so I'll wait it out for now and HOLY SHIT MORE POSTS THAT THIRTY MINUTE WAIT WAS WORTH IT

Frankly, I still doubt Raymond is mafia. He's doing a lot of the real work here, and giving us a lot more to... you know, work with. Proto's arguments don't really strike me as strong, either.

I'll still wait a while before posting a vote, but... I think I can see where this is going.