FE7 balance patch

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i pray to god everything works fine(including the link), i tested out the patch so it should apply as long as its on a "newgame" file and not an existing game.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hf3s5q

I've made this with personal suggestions from various fourm members of FE websites, i sure hope these changes work as i put them down in the Read Me file

also if you got any suggestions please post them here as this is suppost to make the game balanced and i'd hate it if i did something wrong to break the balance.

could this be considered a chrismas gift?

[FalconVegeta1986]

Good to see all your hard work and inquiries have finally paid off! I'll definitely download this and tell you what I think. And reporting any bugs, of course.

BTW, are you planning on doing something like this for FE6 & 8?

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

i pray to god everything works fine(including the link), i tested out the patch so it should apply as long as its on a "newgame" file and not an existing game.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/hf3s5q

I've made this with personal suggestions from various fourm members of FE websites, i sure hope these changes work as i put them down in the Read Me file

also if you got any suggestions please post them here as this is suppost to make the game balanced and i'd hate it if i did something wrong to break the balance.

could this be considered a chrismas gift?

Wow, these are all nice changes (although the +LUK for Nino confuses me).

Can I suggest just four more? (And I will give reasons why)

1. Knights now have 5 MOV, up from 4. Generals still get +1 MOV on promotion. Knights really need the MOV to have any real end-game.

2. Archers now have 6 MOV, up from 5. Snipers still get +1 MOV on promotion. This puts them between normal foot units and mounts, and makes sense considering they're supposed to be agile units. Might be too much considering their 15% crit on promotion, but I don't think so.

3. Dorcas now has a 50% SPD growth and 50% STR growth; in addition, Bartre has a 60% STR growth. This allows Dorcas to be more of a speedy fighter while Bartre is more of a strong fighter AND makes both characters not suck as a class. It also makes Dorcas have a total 305% growth per level, putting him exactly in line with other growth units, who typically range from 290-310% total.

4. Ocean Seal and Fell Contract are now only worth 10,000 Gold. The funds rank has been adjusted accordingly. I think the reasons for this change are obvious.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Parrhesia]

2. Archers now have 6 MOV, up from 5. Snipers still get +1 MOV on promotion. This puts them between normal foot units and mounts, and makes sense considering they're supposed to be agile units. Might be too much considering their 15% crit on promotion, but I don't think so.

okay

somehow this post offends me

NO

THEY ARE NOT THIEVES

SNIPERS DO NOT MOVE FASTER THAN ASSASSINS. THIS IS NOT HOW THE UNIVERSE OPERATES.

They are MODERATELY-ARMOURED CLASSES. Myrmidons aren't. Myrmidons with 6 move, sure. That would make sense and compensate for swords being shit.

And guess how an archer shoots? By STANDING IN PLACE. They do not swoop around the battlefield like a sniper in Unreal Tournament. If they do I demand that snipers be allowed to telefrag.

Also where the FUCK do you get Archers being agile from. They wear armour and have a base speed of 3. This is somewhere in between 'abysmal' and merely 'deplorable'. Fighters, to compare, have 4. Snipers aren't much faster at 5, which is the same as a CAVALIER. Wil is slow, Rebecca starts slow and becomes slightly fast if she's trained, Louise is an aberration.

You know what would make sense? 2-3 range to all bows that aren't shortbows. Because that makes sense, because bows fire longer than handaxes can be tossed. That gives range to them as well, which is what you want.

*twitches*

I also disagree with infantry-movement armours but not as vehemently, and there's actually logic behind it, so w/e

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

okay

somehow this post offends me

NO

THEY ARE NOT THIEVES

SNIPERS DO NOT MOVE FASTER THAN ASSASSINS. THIS IS NOT HOW THE UNIVERSE OPERATES.

They are MODERATELY-ARMOURED CLASSES. Myrmidons aren't. Myrmidons with 6 move, sure. That would make sense and compensate for swords being shit.

And guess how an archer shoots? By STANDING IN PLACE. They do not swoop around the battlefield like a sniper in Unreal Tournament. If they do I demand that snipers be allowed to telefrag.

Also where the FUCK do you get Archers being agile from. They wear armour and have a base speed of 3. This is somewhere in between 'abysmal' and merely 'deplorable'. Fighters, to compare, have 4. Snipers aren't much faster at 5, which is the same as a CAVALIER. Wil is slow, Rebecca starts slow and becomes slightly fast if she's trained, Louise is an aberration.

You know what would make sense? 2-3 range to all bows that aren't shortbows. Because that makes sense, because bows fire longer than handaxes can be tossed. That gives range to them as well, which is what you want.

*twitches*

I also disagree with infantry-movement armours but not as vehemently, and there's actually logic behind it, so w/e

Archers are typically the lightest-armored (not medium-armored) units in the game, bar mages; they're probably about as armored as mercs, as the only leather I see most wearing is a shoulder-pad and the quiver. Never mind that if we're going all lore, Rebecca is proclaimed an excellent hunter (as in, she moves swiftly and quietly to stalk her prey) and images of Wil show him shooting a bow while leaping.

And come on, Rebecca isn't medium-speed. Her base SPD may be low, but she ends up as fast or faster (due to higher SPD cap) than Raven and is only matched or beat by people like Rath. Wil, the "slow" archer in the game, still rocks 40% SPD growth.

Archers getting +1 MOV makes more sense than knight +1 MOV, but knights really NEED that move to be balanced. I mean, you could make good arguments for myrms getting +1 SPD, but they don't need it to be balanced.

[Bryan]

I'm having to agree with Furet here. I'm all for making Archers not suck, but this isn't the way.

2-3 bows are pretty awesome. They aren't gamebreaking, and they make sense. Oh wait, it makes sense... Nevermind.

Have you ever tried running while trying to shoot a bow? Tell me when you can hit a bulls-eye while running, and I will commend you.

[Thor Odinson]

Honestly, at least more 2-3 range options if not all but short bows going 2-3 would be better than +1 move gameplay wise anyway. As Archers have no enemy phase forever, their best bet is a great player phase. 2-3 Range would open up to uncounterable player phases (except against fellow bowmen) and in defend chapters, especially those you can't end early, do some pretty neat chokepoint stuff like Oswin/Hector in front, Erk/Lucius behind them, and archer of choice takes 3 range on an enemy. 2-3 range's basically the same reach as +1 move except BETTER since now they won't even deal with Javelin or Handaxe counters on PP.

The only thing Guy has going for him is good bases, and even that is quickly outclassed by Raven's even better bases. +1 move on a Myrm would kinda make up for their complete lack of 2 range except for like, one Light Brand. It still wouldn't be as good as 2 range since they'll never hit over a wall without LB, but on open plains they'd have the same move+attack range (although they'll have to eat a counter) and it certainly would not make them overpowered.

Also, art is all about DRAMATIC POSING. What goes on in pictures may not hold for what really happens. And even though Becca can move swiftly around things, that has nothing to do with how far she can move. I'm a hallway ninja and can weave through people with ease and get to class on time, but fuck if I have to run long distance ever. The former correlates to the speed stat, and the latter correlates to move. Also Myrms/SMs and Thief/Assassin are unarmoured, so their load is even lighter than Archers'.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Luminescent Blade

[Parrhesia]

Archers are typically the lightest-armored (not medium-armored) units in the game, bar mages;

and myrmidons

and thieves

and mercenaries

and fighters

and Eliwoods

and Lyns

and nomads

You've still forgotten Snipers WHO ARE WEARING METAL BREASTPLATES AND ARMGUARDS

they're probably about as armored as mercs, as the only leather I see most wearing is a shoulder-pad and the quiver.

Compared to previous classes who are...

...

um

Never mind that if we're going all lore, Rebecca is proclaimed an excellent hunter (as in, she moves swiftly and quietly to stalk her prey) and images of Wil show him shooting a bow while leaping.

Rebecca's LEVEL ONE. And hey, I never said anything against occasional archers with speed, Rebecca would likely be one because in a game with Hunters she'd be a Hunter. SHE ISN'T FASTER-RUNNING THAN AN ASSASSIN WHILE WEARING HALF-PLATE.

Are you seriously using OA over realism

And come on, Rebecca isn't medium-speed. Her base SPD may be low

Right. This is called 'conceding the argument'.

Wil, the "slow" archer in the game, still rocks 40% SPD growth.

Which is mediocre. And his base is bad. And his Con is inexplicably terrible. He's slow.

Archers getting +1 MOV makes more sense than knight +1 MOV, but knights really NEED that move to be balanced. I mean, you could make good arguments for myrms getting +1 SPD, but they don't need it to be balanced.

You could make good arguments for myrms getting +1 Movement, like LOGIC.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

You've still forgotten Snipers WHO ARE WEARING METAL BREASTPLATES AND ARMGUARDS

If you look at Rebecca's portrait, the "breastplate" and "armguards" are the same color as the quiver. I'm not sure that it's plate, unless the quiver's made of plate also (which is possible).

Are you seriously using OA over realism

I went down this type of reasoning because you did.

Which is mediocre. And his base is bad. And his Con is inexplicably terrible. He's slow.

Yeah, Wil and Rebecca have oddly low bases for some reason. I don't even know why for sure (they also have good growths, probably why). Also, Wil loses no AS to either silvers or killers...just steel. His CON is fine. If Wil actually had 7 SPD base, he'd be pretty fast. End-game Wil is faster than 30-40% of your characters (I've actually went and done this), and he loses to like 20-30% by only about 1-2 SPD. His SPD is mediocre because of his base, but he's not slow...and certainly fast enough to start doubling around mid-game (since enemy AS is so poor in FE7).

As for Lumi's point, I'd also be happy with longbows being buyable at the same time as javs and hand axes and having their WT lowered to about 7-8, and with Rebecca getting +2 STR/+1 SPD base and Wil getting +1 STR/+2 SPD base, but I didn't want to feel like I'm advocating for Wil-only buffs in spite of balance. The reason I suggested 6 MOV is to give archers/snipers better chances to position and thus have a better PP.

You could make good arguments for myrms getting +1 Movement, like LOGIC.

Yeah, logic is usually behind good arguments. Thanks for clarifying my statement.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Nanami Touko]

Yeah, logic is usually behind good arguments. Thanks for clarifying my statement.

It's just too bad you don't have any logic to clarify your own statement with ' x'

This is like reading that Meg thread again. Gonna watch everyone slowly tell you how wrong you are until it seeps in...

[Parrhesia]

If you look at Rebecca's portrait, the "breastplate" and "armguards" are the same color as the quiver. I'm not sure that it's plate, unless the quiver's made of plate also (which is possible).

I'm talking about Snipers. The ones you think should be faster than assassins.

cannot even be fucked to deal with the rest of the post

but you are saying that Snipers are faster at running than Assassins and Archers faster at running than Myrmidons and this is utterly ridiculous

This isn't even a case of agility. This is a case of running speed.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

It's just too bad you don't have any logic to clarify your own statement with ' x'

This is like reading that Meg thread again. Gonna watch everyone slowly tell you how wrong you are until it seeps in...

:/

Um...it was a suggestion, to be taken or not. Furetchen just went nuts at the concept, which I don't get.

Snipers getting +1 MOV makes more sense than knights having the same MOV as mercenaries, but the latter was suggested for the sake of bringing a really lacking class into viability more than for realism.

If I really wanted to go pure realism, I'd make mercs, myrms, thieves, and archers all have 6 MOV, but mercs don't really need it since Raven and Harken are more than good enough already. Myrms as a class aren't bad, it's more like Guy and Karel pale stat-wise to their competition (and 1-2 range of hand axe). The 15% crit of SMs reasonably balances with no axe use.

EDIT: I'm talking about Rebecca as a sniper too. Skip to 0:40

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Parrhesia]

:/

Um...it was a suggestion, to be taken or not. Furetchen just went nuts at the concept, which I don't get.

I went nuts at the concept for entirely unrelated reasons. I still utterly despise the idea, but I wouldn't flip out at it normally.

I still say bows should have 2-3 range, and I certainly say playable archers need a significant buff.

And yeah, I'm seeing that as metal. On the class as a whole, as well as just Rebecca. Otherwise why change it from skintone leather to metallic grey?

Edited December 24, 2011 by Furetchen

[Nanami Touko]

Yeah you're talking about specific characters and Furet's talking about the class as a whole. I suggest you get onto the same wavelength as him ' x'

[dondon151]

I'm against giving units +move because that will also affect every enemy unit in the game.

[Thor Odinson]

You also forgot 15+bg colour limitation on GBA and coloured metal in FE just means that it's the same colour as whatever the quiver's made of and not necessarily the same material.

Good job ignoring my hallway ninja point.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

I still say bows should have 2-3 range, and I certainly say playable archers need a significant buff.

I actually went with the whole 1 more MOV so it'd be a mild buff to a class with its own issues in GBA games, mainly because if I suggested a much more significant buff like "2-3 range bows", people might think I'm being an archer fanboi douchebag trying to needlessly tamper with a balance patch.

It oddly backfired.

And yeah, I'm seeing that as metal. On the class as a whole, as well as just Rebecca. Otherwise why change it from skintone leather to metallic grey?

Fair enough. I actually never turn combat animations on, so I never really payed attention to that. Geared in plate as a 2-range only class strikes me as odd. Mail, maybe, but not plate.

EDIT: Sorry Lumi, I was responding to 2 posts at once. I didn't mean to ignore your point; I do agree that it's valid. I also didn't know GBA was so limited color-wise, tbh.

EDIT2: dondon, while true, the balance patch mostly makes the game easier (except for final boss) by buffing weak units and green NPCs. We don't really need to make FE7 any easier, and enemies having more move would at least counterbalance the changes (especially since enemy archers/knights tend to be terrible).

Edited December 24, 2011 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Parrhesia]

I actually went with the whole 1 more MOV so it'd be a mild buff to a class with its own issues in GBA games, mainly because if I suggested a much more significant buff like "2-3 range bows", people might think I'm being a fanboi douchebag trying to needlessly tamper with a balance patch.

It oddly backfired.

Move would be more useful, since it boosts their range anyway. 2-3 bows helps the weapon, which needs more attention than the class (taking FE8 as an example, Warrior vs. Hero or Paladin vs. Ranger, anyone?)

Although I can see 2-3 range for Archers and Snipers only, but that can't be hacked into FE7.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Furetchen

[Thor Odinson]

At HF's level, anyway. Ryru or Alex or any of the programmers with a good bit of ASM knowledge could probably, but they have other things to do.

[Nanami Touko]

Although I can see 2-3 range for Archers and Snipers only, but that can't be hacked into FE7.

WELL ACTUALLY

in theory you could extend the item table, and create an identical set of bows that are locked to archers/snipers, giving them all 2-3 range like the Longbow has, which would technically give them all 2-3 range. Of course, that's incredibly convoluted, and you'd need some way to tell them apart from normal bows, but for what it's worth, it can be done o 3 o

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Move would be more useful, since it boosts their range anyway. 2-3 bows helps the weapon, which needs more attention than the class (taking FE8 as an example, Warrior vs. Hero or Paladin vs. Ranger, anyone?)

Although I can see 2-3 range for Archers and Snipers only, but that can't be hacked into FE7.

2-3 range intrinsic would make archers able to ORKO Luna druids (or any caster, like say Nergal) without fear of reprocussion. 1 MOV would not, but it would allow archers to keep up with cav rushes easier. I'd find the former more helpful, myself, but I guess it's up for debate.

Both have the same effective attack range, barring critically placed forest tiles or something like that.

[Thor Odinson]

Luna Druids are so damn annoying anyway with their existent hitrates and massive damage per hit. Plus the crit.

Oh yeah game balance related comment

No more crit on Luna would be nice. It's just not fun when Luna Druids randomly crit you since it's pretty much a guarateed OHKO and they have QUITE a bit of crit, but hey, no more loltrivialising Dragon with Athos on that~

Unless that was mentioned in one of those threads out back already I don't remember

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Luna Druids are so damn annoying anyway with their existent hitrates and massive damage per hit. Plus the crit.

Oh yeah game balance related comment

No more crit on Luna would be nice. It's just not fun when Luna Druids randomly crit you since it's pretty much a guarateed OHKO and they have QUITE a bit of crit, but hey, no more loltrivialising Dragon with Athos on that~

Unless that was mentioned in one of those threads out back already I don't remember

I think Athos can still kill the dragon in one turn with a Body Ring. Sadly, I think this might be almost mandatory with the patch since the dragon will rape you so hard if you don't kill him ASAP.

I'd honestly like Luna to only ignore half of enemy RES or, if he can't do that, make it have negative MT. Even w/o the crit, it's still insane.

[Parrhesia]

Strip Athos of Dark Magic.

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Strip Athos of Dark Magic.

This would also work.

I mean, that essentially makes Luna a PRF tome for Canas, but he's so slow (before his OMG WTF SPD promotion) I think he might need it to properly compete with Erk and Lucius, who double far more easily for a decent portion of the game. It at least gives him a nice "anti-boss" niche.

Luna just gets stupid when you have 30 MAG.