Elieson Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Out of curiosity, why do you dislike Rath so much? Also, I don't see that point about Karla not costing a Hero Crest since you have to raise Bartre, and thus she indirectly costs a Hero Crest, as I see it. Rath joins your team in Lyn mode, and unlike the rest of the cast, sans Wallace, who serves his purpose in Lyn mode only, dissappears until halfway through the game. That, and he rejoins in a chapter that not only doesn't treat him well, but his recruitment costs turns in draft runs anyway. He brings bows to a team that doesn't particularly need them until you find Louise anyway, and he promotes to bring...swords. So unless you guard him carefully so he can PP chip, he will take more than a fair share of abuse. Or, he can ferry just about anyone, but his stats are so low that using him to ferry is more trouble than its worth. His sword combat is bad at best, even if he doubles, because he isn't hitting B or A anytime soon, and you would likely use him for range chip anyway, since he is really a bow on a horse, and he can just soften things up for Marcus, Sain, etc (if its even necessary) That, and about the potentially 2 crests. What I meant is that since she is a prepromo, you don't have to promote Bartre & Karla, just Bartre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriba Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 But as you yourself pointed out, he's got access to swords with an early promotion. That puts him above Wil/Rath without question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Rath joins your team in Lyn mode, and unlike the rest of the cast, sans Wallace, who serves his purpose in Lyn mode only, dissappears until halfway through the game. That, and he rejoins in a chapter that not only doesn't treat him well, but his recruitment costs turns in draft runs anyway. He brings bows to a team that doesn't particularly need them until you find Louise anyway, and he promotes to bring...swords. So unless you guard him carefully so he can PP chip, he will take more than a fair share of abuse. Or, he can ferry just about anyone, but his stats are so low that using him to ferry is more trouble than its worth. His sword combat is bad at best, even if he doubles, because he isn't hitting B or A anytime soon, and you would likely use him for range chip anyway, since he is really a bow on a horse, and he can just soften things up for Marcus, Sain, etc (if its even necessary) That, and about the potentially 2 crests. What I meant is that since she is a prepromo, you don't have to promote Bartre & Karla, just Bartre. Okay. Though considering how godawful Bartre is in HHM, needing to blow a Hero Crest on him just to get Karla just doesn't sit well with me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Sry, 2x post But, Karla costs 0 turns (side from the work on Bartre), and is always gonna be crap, so you won't ever use her except maybe for her sword, which someone else will receive. Edited January 29, 2012 by Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 But, Karla costs 0 turns (side from the work on Bartre), and is always gonna be crap, so you won't ever use her except maybe for her sword, which someone else will receive. Okay. Though on the other hand I don't even see the Wo Dao as all that useful anyways, seeing as it's only usable by Swordmasters and Lyn (and the Killing Edge is better and buyable, not to mention the fact that swordmasters aren't all that great in FE7). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Okay. Though on the other hand I don't even see the Wo Dao as all that useful anyways, seeing as it's only usable by Swordmasters and Lyn (and the Killing Edge is better and buyable, not to mention the fact that swordmasters aren't all that great in FE7). Emphasis was on my "maybe" in my post, because I can not really think of any situation that you would need to use the Wo Dao, but there might be one sometime? And hell, Lyn gets bows too, but she won't be using them more than once or twice either. She will use bows as often as Rath will use swords IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriba Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 From personal experience, Lyn!Bows can be somewhat useful. Helps take care of troublesome wyverns and the like. Presuming Lyn gets promoted in the first place, that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Emphasis was on my "maybe" in my post, because I can not really think of any situation that you would need to use the Wo Dao, but there might be one sometime? And hell, Lyn gets bows too, but she won't be using them more than once or twice either. She will use bows as often as Rath will use swords IMO. I shoulda mentioned this earlier, but I'm not really seeing how Rath wastes turns, since Eubans is in a corner on Hector mode. And on that note, I'd consider the training Bartre needs to recruit Karla to be more of a detriment to the team since he's just that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frat_tastic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Has to be at least born. And even then hotness bias rates don't stack. Just like those FE4 rings when you have two of the same. Well now you're just setting arbitrary limits to hotness ratings. I disagree, I totally think unborn people should be able to add to their mother's hotness ratings. No reason they shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm not really seeing how Rath wastes turns, since Eubans is in a corner on Hector mode. Bahh. EHM got the best of me again. I always forget where Eubans starts in HHM. I'll edit my ratings then, being as I rated based on incorrect information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Well then too bad. :P Also you missed the note on they don't stack. Maximum of 1 no matter how many hot people you consider. Edited January 29, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Not that she overcomes her previously stated flaws, but I like some things about her character. I like that we at least get to see somebody mentioned in a previous game in the series, and I like her supports. Pretty much everything else about her just doesn't make sense, though. If they'd given her to us way earlier, everything about her might be a bit more excusable, at the very least for a casual player who wants to use a swordmaster to double and crit things, yet finds themselves unable to use Guy for some reason. She might have at least seemed kind of neat if we got her right before or at the Dread Isle. Not only would it have made much more sense gameplay-wise to give her to us much earlier, it would have done more for her personal story. When we actually get her, briefly putting aside the fact that she has worse bases than a few people you've already gotten for free (whose idea was this?), we get a character that's looking for another character, Karel, a dude who's supposedly hard to find and legendary and stuff, but who (if we so chose) has already joined us. This is a big pile of missed opportunity- we've barely been told about Karel before we meet him, and unless we played FE6 beforehand we don't know who we're dealing with when he actually shows up. But if we'd gotten Karla beforehand, preferably by Bartre being prompted to notice her on the field at some point (maybe wandering the extra Fargus test chapter or on the Dread Isle), she could've dropped a hint about who she's looking for in the process of being recruited, and then we would have an opportunity to figure out "Oh! It's that dude!" when Karel actually shows up. And we'd have somebody we could easily guess would be able to recruit Karel, instead of the good old main lord approach. I actually like Bartre, but that unfortunately doesn't make her recruitment excusable, either. Putting aside that Bartre gets doubled by bandits at the start of HHM and that raising him is going to be a project, to put it lightly, the conditions for her recruitment display all my least-favorite tendencies of the series distilled into one being. The player isn't solidly told that there's anybody to be recruited in the level, and she never shows up on the map. Then you have to send somebody to the arena whom you've presumably already leveled. Let's process that for a moment. In a map with limited turns, and not really enough time to train somebody using the arena, to get this character you're supposed to send somebody (who won't really get that much benefit from training a couple fights at this point) to fight, which basically messes with a slot that most people would just assume fill a slot with a mounted unit to dash to the stores, or use to briefly build supports or something. And you're not actually supposed to win that fight, and guh. What player do they suppose is going to find, much less recruit Karla without looking this shit up? I doubt these ideas would've made her an instant fan favorite, but as it is there's enough evidence to make an argument that putting in Karla was an afterthought or some kind of result of cramming. What sucks is that it's not her fault, she didn't have to be the most ridiculously implemented character ever. I'm bad with number ratings, but I can at least say that I'd never particularly want to see a character implemented in a Fire Emblem game the way Karla was, again. tl;dr- /10 Edited January 29, 2012 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriba Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Though she's a poor unit, I feel Karla "makes sense" just fine. She's like Renault: a late recruit who adds a lot to the story/characters of you're willing to work for the supports. As for why her stats are low? She's supposed to be weaker than Karel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Well, I don't much like the idea of units like that, either. I don't understand why we should accept units with so little to redeem them in actual gameplay, when they could have easily been better and not really have hurt anything. Even if she was just left unchanged and given to us earlier, that would have made some sense to me. The way she was put in, it just feels like the game's messing with us. When a unit is very nearly a carbon copy of another statistically, but worse, and comes later, that almost seems insulting to me. She's near-exactly Karel with 2 fewer points in the most relevant stats and 3 levels lower. It's like they didn't really care about her when she was made a playable unit. I may know that there are gonna be a lot of characters in FE game and they can't all be winners, but I think they should all be worthy of some respect both in story and in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Though she's a poor unit, I feel Karla "makes sense" just fine. She's like Renault: a late recruit who adds a lot to the story/characters of you're willing to work for the supports. As for why her stats are low? She's supposed to be weaker than Karel. Karel if supposed to be a swordsman of legend, but one look at his stats makes a trained Guy (starving and working for bandits) look like god. Its not hard to be weaker than a legend, but neither of then really make the cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Wo Dao has 2 less WT, 1 less MT, and 5 more crit. Half the guys that can use it kind of like the weight reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsalmon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 And I thought Karel's base HP was terrible enough. 0/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 is HP all you can say about these two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriba Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Well, I don't much like the idea of units like that, either. I don't understand why we should accept units with so little to redeem them in actual gameplay, when they could have easily been better and not really have hurt anything. Even if she was just left unchanged and given to us earlier, that would have made some sense to me. The way she was put in, it just feels like the game's messing with us. When a unit is very nearly a carbon copy of another statistically, but worse, and comes later, that almost seems insulting to me. She's near-exactly Karel with 2 fewer points in the most relevant stats and 3 levels lower. It's like they didn't really care about her when she was made a playable unit. I may know that there are gonna be a lot of characters in FE game and they can't all be winners, but I think they should all be worthy of some respect both in story and in play. It's a fine line. We all know gameplay and plot don't always line up, but making Karla better than Karel right out of the box (whereas Guy requires training, at least) would've been silly. My solution: replace Karel with Karla, have Karel be the "special recruit" of Battle Preparations, and then beef Karel's stats up to absurd levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renall Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 0/10. Everything about her is terrible and she's a massive pain in the ass to recruit properly besides. Practically the only reason you'd even bother is because you want to recruit everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 0/10. Everything about her is terrible and she's a massive pain in the ass to recruit properly besides. Practically the only reason you'd even bother is because you want to recruit everybody. Indeed. It doesn't help that you have to use one of the worst characters in the game to even recruit her... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geriba Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Come now, Bartre isn't that awful. 10/1 stats: HP: 38.8 Str: 14 Skill: 9.8 Speed: 6.2 Luck: 6.4 Def: 9.4 Res: 5 Con: 15 Only notable problem there is speed, which is admittedly very poor. If you're playing NM, then throw the Speedwings from Pirate Ship on him; otherwise, either hand him a Brave axe or use him with a little caution. He's highly usable; his rough earlygame is the only real knock against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Oh wow Karla's ranks suck 0.39 Not much of a surprise but damn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsalmon Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 is HP all you can say about these two I think others have already detailed their other failings enough. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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