Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You could try to argue that Zealot and Juno may have been in an arranged marriage, but that's a pretty bad assertion you'll have to go out of your way to just persuade others into coming with a similarly outrageous conclusion because there's no way in hell you'll find evidence of such between such minor characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Well, we don't ideed. But, why make a point using characters (as an example) in an FE that has very little character devolepment IMO. Fe6 is known for bland characters. Fe6s most memorable characters...Clarine, maybe Thany.....and IDK what else. Edited March 5, 2012 by The Insane One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 You could try to argue that Zealot and Juno may have been in an arranged marriage, but that's a pretty bad assertion you'll have to go out of your way to just persuade others into coming with a similarly outrageous conclusion because there's no way in hell you'll find evidence of such between such minor characters. Yeah, exactly. I guess they could have, but I literally can't see a single reason to think so when IS never brings it up, or even hints at it. I mean, my dad could also be Zeus, but the world's never really given me any reason to think so. Although it would be pretty cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Personally, the nomads have stood out to me the most in the Elibeverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Wait. We're argueing about wether some minor character in a game that has mediocre characyer development-is gay, even though he's married and there is no way to concretely prove that he is gay? What is wrong with us Also, by Banzais standards, LynXFlorina exists, EliwoodXHector, RoyxWolt, and Peg sisters Incest exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Also, by Banzais standards, LynXFlorina exists, EliwoodXHector, RoyxWolt, and Peg sisters Incest exist. Lyn/Florina gets quite a bit of attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, indeed. But seriously, by these standard Peg sister incest must exist if Zealot is gay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yes, indeed. But seriously, by these standard Peg sister incest must exist if Zealot is gay Well apparently FE is known for incest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Apparently by these standards, IkeXMist, EliwoodXRoy, and NiimeXHugh exist. Fan speculation is fan speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Apparently by these standards, IkeXMist, EliwoodXRoy, and NiimeXHugh exist. Fan speculation is fan speculation. I don't want to think about it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Tarrasque Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Let's not get carried away and derail things now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 quick, other people start making a thread in FFTF to mock this one Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I think it would make more sense if Banzai tried to claim that Zealot's "haunting past" was that he couldn't live with Juno, rather than...he's somehow forced into a loveless marriage, despite there being no apparent reason for them to be married if Zealot doesn't love Juno. Then again, that's more of a present thing, not a past thing so...doesn't really fit the archetype either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted March 5, 2012 Author Share Posted March 5, 2012 I think it would make more sense if Banzai tried to claim that Zealot's "haunting past" was that he couldn't live with Juno, rather than...he's somehow forced into a loveless marriage, despite there being no apparent reason for them to be married if Zealot doesn't love Juno. Then again, that's more of a present thing, not a past thing so...doesn't really fit the archetype either way. I'm claiming both. He cannot live with Juno because he does not truly love her. He doesn't hate her, he isn't sick of her, or annoyed by her--he's just apathetic, inspired more by THE GOOD OF ILIA and DEATH ON THE BATTLEFIELD. Also don't derail the thread, I'll have Navarre up soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 BUT THEN WHY DID HE MARRY HER IF HE DOESN'T TRULY LOVE HER?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 BUT THEN WHY DID HE MARRY HER IF HE DOESN'T TRULY LOVE HER?! Banzai, I would like to have you answer this question as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Also, just getting the jump, Wolt's in the Marich archetype with Asvel, if I see him in the Gordon archetype I will pimp slap you so hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Yeah, I guess real life isn't well-written, and everyone's secretly like 25-50% bisexual. Apparently there's a crackpot "academic" theory that everyone's secretly bi to some degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Zomg Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 And now we wait for Banzai to scramble for another foothold post that he can adequately reply to whilst completely ignoring every post that precedes it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Even if Zealot said "I love you" it would all depend on the context behind it in order to determine whether he truly meant it. What I'm looking at here is not "Oh Zealot never comes right out and says it" but rather "Oh look at all these textual clues that indicate his hesitation and detachment". Just because someone seems awkward doesn't mean they're not in love, however. It's rather a stretch to say that all these "clues" mean that he's not in love. You say I'M the one shrugging off arguments but you guys are the ones saying "It's just an ellipses, doesn't mean anything" or "You're looking to hard at it." Meanwhile, instead of actually looking at the text, you come around and say "Based on what I've seen in real life" or "In my experience" etc etc etc. You're specifically moving AWAY from the test and instead coming up with your own explanations for what is going on in the world, despite the fact that the FE world is meant to be a world divorced from reality; it's not even indicative of an actual historical past, let alone an actual present. Irrelevant. Humans, people, act and talk in a particular, human way. Just because these are fictional humans does not give you licence to apply any interpretation you feel like to their words and actions. We can assume that just like in our universe, people in their universe marry when they fall in love (and indeed a lot of characters who fall in love marry in their endings), and that the working assumption when dealing with two characters who are married is that they love each other unless stated otherwise. So it's perfectly valid to draw upon personal experience, since most of us have had human interaction and know how humans act or talk, and we have every reason to believe that Zealot and Yuno are humans and will act and talk in the same way. If we could not make such assumptions, analysis would be impossible. If I met a married man who was hesitant or detached in real life, would I assume he doesn't love his wife? Of course not. And I apply the same kind of rules here. We're looking at a series fraught with backstabbing or false lovers, of arranged marriages, of strained relationships--and yet you are trying to prove your points by little more than "In my experience." Er, really? Most relationships in FE actually seem pretty happy. There's Desmond and Hellena who aren't happy, Zealot and Yuno who have to make it work long distance, and Ashnard and Almedha. Aside from Desmond/Hellena and Ashnard/Almedha (and the game makes it clear they don't love each other), I can't think of a single marriage in which the two people don't love each other. Maybe Dorcas/Natalie? Oh, and Tauroneo's wife. But most paired endings are along the lines of "they lived happily ever after". Greil and Elena must have loved each other, since he gave up his rank and position for her. I'm claiming both. He cannot live with Juno because he does not truly love her. He doesn't hate her, he isn't sick of her, or annoyed by her--he's just apathetic, inspired more by THE GOOD OF ILIA and DEATH ON THE BATTLEFIELD. And what evidence do you have for this? A couple of hesitant lines of dialogue? That could just be his nature, that he's a reserved, hesitant person. He has lines where he doesn't seem apathetic, either: Zealot: I see... Yuno was pretty worried about you and Thany. Knowing you, I would think you'd be all right. But you know Yuno, she's a worrier. Thito: Yes, I understand. Our sister was often too soft on Thany and me. The day we left was a hectic one indeed. Yuno was constantly fretting over us, worrying about our meals, our clothes... Zealot: Haha, that's Yuno. Obviously, just talking about Yuno with her sister is enough to make Zealot smile. It's actually kind of touching... (Man I love the Ilian support conversations.) Arranged marriages. I don't think one exists in FE. Desmond and Hellena in FE7, and Astrid was betrothed at one point to Lekain before the events of FE9. She also talks about how her sisters were married to men they did not love, so it seems it's quite common among Begnion nobility. That being said, Zealot is the lord of Edessa. I highly doubt that anyone would have the clout to force him into an arranged marriage he didn't want, let alone an orphan. And it's clear from his account of their meeting that it's not something that was planned in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike-Mike Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) BUT THEN WHY DID HE MARRY HER IF HE DOESN'T TRULY LOVE HER?! Lots of relationships start out one-sided. And in many of them the other person might never fully reciprocate but still appreciates the relationship and everything that went along with it. Similiarly Zealot will never love Yuno as much as she does him, but there is some sort of love/appreciation nonetheless. THE GOOD OF ILIA and DEATH ON THE BATTLEFIELD just have a higher spot on his priority list. Edited March 5, 2012 by Ike-Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 (edited) Lots of relationships start out one-sided. And in many of them the other person might never fully reciprocate but still appreciates the relationship and everything that went along with it. Similiarly Zealot will never love Yuno as much as she does him, but there is some sort of love/appreciation nonetheless. THE GOOD OF ILIA and DEATH ON THE BATTLEFIELD just have a higher spot on his priority list. I'm not fucking arguing that Zealot isn't completely dedicated to Ilia as a whole, I was the one who described him as a Patriot torn between his country and duties and his wife. I am arguing this STUPID fucking notion that Zealot doesn't love Juno at all, and is apparently gay, when there is no evidence beyond conjecture to indicate as such. Here's the thing. Zealot is the lord, Juno is the peasant. There was no monetary gain, There's no power gain, and if the relationship wasn't serious enough for marriage, ZEALOT WOULD NOT HAVE MARRIED HER! Newsflash? people can be in relationships and not be married, BUT WAIT! Banzai is arguing that he doesn't feel comfortable around Juno and is pushing her away, so then they can't have had a friendly relationship either! But wait, there's always the third point on the triangle, Lust. EXCEPT BANZAI IS ARGUING THAT ZEALOT IS GAY, SO LUST REALLY DOESN'T COME INTO IT NOW DOES IT?! So he doesn't love her, he pushes her away and doesn't want her company, and he can't lust for her because he's craving the boy pussy. YET HE MARRIED HER?! Edited March 5, 2012 by Onmi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsalmon Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I can't think of a single marriage in which the two people don't love each other. Maybe Dorcas/Natalie? Dorcas and Natalie pretty obviously love each other except when he's a bad guy. He goes through pretty big lengths to ensure her welfare, and from what little we see of Natalie, she's constantly worrying about his welfare as well. I'm pretty sure they love each other. Also, some people just don't wear their heart on their sleeves. Zealot obviously loves Yunno, considering that he's going to war to better his family (And Ilia, of course). He's just fully aware of the implications of his profession, which could lead to his subdued personality. War isn't pleasant, and he realizes that. There has to be a certain level of emotional detachment, but that doesn't mean that Zealot doesn't love his wife. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 Irrelevant. Humans, people, act and talk in a particular, human way. Just because these are fictional humans does not give you licence to apply any interpretation you feel like to their words and actions. But this is the only thing that English majors know how to do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Cynthia- Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 I'm claiming both. He cannot live with Juno because he does not truly love her. He doesn't hate her, he isn't sick of her, or annoyed by her--he's just apathetic, inspired more by THE GOOD OF ILIA and DEATH ON THE BATTLEFIELD. Also don't derail the thread, I'll have Navarre up soon. Note my key word of "can't" live with Juno, not "would rather not" live with her. Anyway, if you can't justify the action of Zealot marrying Juno in your terms (marriage makes a bigger statement than some hesitation, yes?) then your literary analysis is pretty critically flawed. Now there are Fire Emblem couples that are married that have issues with each other (and thus likely do not love each other), but the games offer plausible explanations of why that is. Desmond and Hellene are an arranged marriage and part of his contempt for her likely stems from him preferring another woman (Guinevere's mother). Nyna and Hardin is another arranged marriage in which Nyna is in love with Camus instead. Almedha and Ashnard weren't technically a marriage anyway and according to Almedha it was mutual attraction, not love. People don't get married on a whim (well maybe in FE Vegas but then they'd get a divorce?), there must be some motivation behind Zealot marrying Juno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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