Rate the Unit, Day 11: Mist

[Sunwoo]

This may come as a shock to you, but not everyone plays fixed.

Snowy. I. Always. Play. Random. Mode. But. We. Are. Rating. On. Fixed. Mode.

Also:

I. Gave. Mist. A. Four. Point. Five. Without. Bias.

Edit: Also, PKL, I went back and looked and some of Mist's ratings. There are other people who are rating her ~4 and so as well! Snowy's justification is pretty poor, but he's not the only person rating her low. Also, in lieu of other scores that are in the 4-5 range, that was some nerve of you to tell me "oh, I missed yours, let me check if it counts."

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jihyun

[PKL]

Well, boron, I read your post now. And you brought up some good points. Except you sandbagged her too much. Why cant she take the mage band to help her average Mag when you BEXP her? Why cant an early promoted mist take 2 arms scrolls and spirit dusts to compensate for the early promo? After all, not many people want the arms scroll to function well, except maybe neph or something. Paladins get E axes on promotion which is enough to use steel and hand axes so, they dont need it. Same with jill. And you also forget that we dont have to early promote her at all. She doesnt need the 1000 bexp right off the bat. You can just make her spam staves until chapter 17 (when theres a lot of BEXP and jill or marcia and ur other units are already promoted anyways) then promote her. After promotion, shes a rescue staffbot with a horsie. Her horse also allows her advantages rhys will never have, like keeping up with your beastly mounted units, moving in to heal a unit and then move to safety. And hell, she will probably have better combat too since rhys's combat is ass. Idk about you, but that doesnt seem to warrant a 4/10 to me. Snowy's vote just reeks of "omg unit is too overrated lets underrate it so it gets a lower score trollololol"...speaking of, ill add a new rule tomorrow: Giving a unit a low score because its overrated is now banned.

[Sunwoo]

Well, boron, I read your post now. And you brought up some good points. Except you sandbagged her too much. Why cant she take the mage band to help her average Mag when you BEXP her? Why cant an early promoted mist take 2 arms scrolls and spirit dusts to compensate for the early promo? After all, not many people want the arms scroll to function well, except maybe neph or something. Paladins get E axes on promotion which is enough to use steel and hand axes so, they dont need it. Same with jill. And you also forget that we dont have to early promote her at all. She doesnt need the 1000 bexp right off the bat. You can just make her spam staves until chapter 17 (when theres a lot of BEXP and jill or marcia and ur other units are already promoted anyways) then promote her. After promotion, shes a rescue staffbot with a horsie. Her horse also allows her advantages rhys will never have, like keeping up with your beastly mounted units, moving in to heal a unit and then move to safety. And hell, she will probably have better combat too since rhys's combat is ass. Idk about you, but that doesnt seem to warrant a 4/10 to me. Snowy's vote just reeks of "omg unit is too overrated lets underrate it so it gets a lower score trollololol"...speaking of, ill add a new rule tomorrow: Giving a unit a low score because its overrated is now banned.

... Sandbagged? I do believe that I explained myself well enough! Sure, I missed the Mage Band part, and yeah, she can take it. But that's still not going to change my score. It doesn't make her magic any more groundbreaking. Spirit Dust? Yes, she could have those two ... or maybe I could give it to my mages instead. If you look back at my rating for Rhys, I docked him for having fail combat and poor durability. I never said Rhys' combat was better than hers! They both suck at fighting! Also, I'm NOT forgetting that we don't have to early promote her at all. That just means it'll take her THAT much longer to be that "mounted healer" everyone loves hyping. Also, want a healer with higher move than Rhys? Mist doesn't even have that distinction all to herself! Sure, the other high-move mage can't canto (and definitely isn't getting the Knight Ring).

Also, just because what Mist does "doesn't warrant a 4/10" from you, maybe other people don't feel the same! I think Mist takes far too many resources and doesn't show up early enough or have good enough bases to make up for it completely, hence my score of 4.5. Mounted healers are useful, yes, but she doesn't start as one, and this is a game where you can amass a bunch of physic staves through stealing and finding in chests and desert so that "keeping up" isn't nearly as important as it was in the GBA games. Healers shouldn't be fighting anyway. Maybe you feel that Mist taking 2 Arms Scrolls for Sonic Sword is fine. Personally, I think that's favoritism, since I can think of other people who'd want it as well. And if you're going to complain about my score being too low, go complain to Onmi and Elieson and other non-Snowy people who also rated her at the 4-5 range!

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jihyun

[Elieson]

Omg jihyun, you are Boron!?!?!

[Anouleth]

Tormod's magic isn't bad, but that's not to say that he wouldn't appreciate the mage band and dusts. Just because he has 25 at max level doesn't mean he doesn't need it, certainly, since it's not like h's even likely to reach that level. If nothing else, it means we have to give him less BEXP.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Anouleth

[Sunwoo]

Omg jihyun, you are Boron!?!?!

Yep, I'm Boron. Nice to run into you at last, Elie.

To keep this on-topic, I don't feel like I'm sandbagging or underrating Mist at all. I missed a few points like the Mage Band, which I admitted, but it honestly doesn't change my opinion of her. And to be clear, I don't rate units based on what OTHER people rate them.

Edit:

Tormod's magic isn't bad, but that's not to say that he wouldn't appreciate the mage band. Just because he has 25 at max level doesn't mean he doesn't need it, certainly.

He would definitely appreciate the Mage Band, yes, but whether he gets it or not wouldn't make me change my rating of him. As it wouldn't change my rating for Mist if SHE gets it.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Jihyun

[PKL]

I suck and forgot to say Im counting your vote, boron. >_> And despite him being extremely wrong, i will count snowy's too...:(. These threads are harder to manage than I thought.

[Shadow Mir]

Mounted healers are useful, yes, but she doesn't start as one, and this is a game where you can amass a bunch of physic staves through stealing and finding in chests and desert so that "keeping up" isn't nearly as important as it was in the GBA games.

True, but it's not like you can magically reach halfway across the map just by breaking out a physic staff... And what good's a physic staff if you're struggling to keep close enough that you can reach? That being said, I am actually a more relaxed FE player than you might gather from my comments.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Sunwoo]

True, but it's not like you can magically reach halfway across the map just by breaking out a physic staff... And what good's a physic staff if you're struggling to keep close enough that you can reach? That being said, I am actually a more relaxed FE player than you might gather from my comments.

Look, my playing style and my rating style are very different from one another. I once spent over 1000 turns in FE7 just so I could A support as many people as I could and to level up everyone I was using to 20/20. In PoR, I wait around even after I finish so I can clear out all reinforcements and I try to level up all my characters to 20/20 if I can. But I know that it doesn't fly in rating threads, so I put aside my own stupid biases to rate as objectively as I can.

And even for a playing style as relaxed as mine, I find Mist a pain in the butt and I would probably never use her aside from the BK fight (because I am a perfectionist and I must ATTEMPT to beat him). Also, if Rhys and Mist are at equal levels then on fixed mode he will have more magic, and therefore more range. If we somehow manage to get one of our mages to C staves to use physic, they'll have more magic than Mist on average. Hence, more range. Even without canto, Rhys, Soren, and Ilyana will all have greater magic on average than Mist. Tormod has +2 move automatically, so he has no problems keeping up.

I reiterate, I DO NOT HATE MIST. I'll even user her. But in efficient play, I'm not willing to give her so much favoritism. I'm not going to make her combat "good". I'm not giving her 2 Arms Scrolls and a Sonic Sword. She heals, and I'm glad for that. A second healer is always nice in earlygame. But staves are not nearly as important in this game as in others. No Warp. Elincia is a FLYING healer who can use Rescue at base. A promoted mage with a heal staff = decent healer in this game. And I do not do biases either. 4.5 is as objective as I can rate Mist, based on my standards for units, and I am not changing my vote.

[Snapdragon]

So, somehow SS mia's 17 mt is acceptable but 41 mt SS mist isnt? I know its not possible to have 41 mt at that point but just saying, that post is absurd. Im tempted to throw snowy's vote because it reeks of way too much bias and its not close to the average rating. What do u all think?

I think Snowy doesn't value the sonic sword all that much in the first place since it eventually runs out. He'd rather not raise a character whose combat would be solely dependent on it, as opposed to just giving it to someone else who can function perfectly fine without it, as a possible option, even if they don't use it as effectively.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Snapdragon

[Shadow Mir]

Look, my playing style and my rating style are very different from one another. I once spent over 1000 turns in FE7 just so I could A support as many people as I could and to level up everyone I was using to 20/20. In PoR, I wait around even after I finish so I can clear out all reinforcements and I try to level up all my characters to 20/20 if I can. But I know that it doesn't fly in rating threads, so I put aside my own stupid biases to rate as objectively as I can.

And even for a playing style as relaxed as mine, I find Mist a pain in the butt and I would probably never use her aside from the BK fight (because I am a perfectionist and I must ATTEMPT to beat him). Also, if Rhys and Mist are at equal levels then on fixed mode he will have more magic, and therefore more range. If we somehow manage to get one of our mages to C staves to use physic, they'll have more magic than Mist on average. Hence, more range. Even without canto, Rhys, Soren, and Ilyana will all have greater magic on average than Mist. Tormod has +2 move automatically, so he has no problems keeping up.

I reiterate, I DO NOT HATE MIST. I'll even user her. But in efficient play, I'm not willing to give her so much favoritism. I'm not going to make her combat "good". I'm not giving her 2 Arms Scrolls and a Sonic Sword. She heals, and I'm glad for that. A second healer is always nice in earlygame. But staves are not nearly as important in this game as in others. No Warp. Elincia is a FLYING healer who can use Rescue at base. A promoted mage with a heal staff = decent healer in this game. And I do not do biases either. 4.5 is as objective as I can rate Mist, based on my standards for units, and I am not changing my vote.

I understand your point, honestly, I do. But it's not like we can act like Physic is the only important staff, which is why I commented like I did. I'd hate getting sleeped (NOTE: Sleep in Tellius reduces your evade to a big fat goose egg) and not having someone nearby to Restore whoever got zonked out...

[Pat]

I would rate Mist... probably a 4 of 10... I want to say 3, honestly, but...

I mean, she can end up useful - a mounted healer, with an extra 2 movement over promoted Rhys/Sages, and Canto. But... she comes into the game as a Level 1 healer... at Chapter 9... That means it takes a lot more work than usual to get her up to par, especially since Rhys could be a much stronger character by that time. You could even figure the same for Soren or Ilyana, although it's just about impossible to imagine either of those two being able to use staves by then, especially in hard mode. >_>; So is the effort worth the reward? Well... I don't think so. Really don't. *shrug* I'd go with Rhys for a dedicated healer.

[Sunwoo]

I understand your point, honestly, I do. But it's not like we can act like Physic is the only important staff, which is why I commented like I did. I'd hate getting sleeped (NOTE: Sleep in Tellius reduces your evade to a big fat goose egg) and not having someone nearby to Restore whoever got zonked out...

I know Physic is not the only important staff. But my point is that staves aren't nearly as important in PoR as they are in GBA games. From what I can recall, sleep and silence staves are only problems in a few chapters. Warp and Berserk don't exist. Rescue exists, but flying healer Elincia who can use Rescue at base seems to make the best use for it. Pretty much, if our mages haven't reached the rank for Restore yet, I'd probably only deploy Rhys or Mist to use Restore for only a select few chapters where Restore is needed.

[Shadow Mir]

I know Physic is not the only important staff. But my point is that staves aren't nearly as important in PoR as they are in GBA games. From what I can recall, sleep and silence staves are only problems in a few chapters. Warp and Berserk don't exist. Rescue exists, but flying healer Elincia who can use Rescue at base seems to make the best use for it. Pretty much, if our mages haven't reached the rank for Restore yet, I'd probably only deploy Rhys or Mist to use Restore for only a select few chapters where Restore is needed.

Alright. Though I don't exactly like the idea of having to plow a ton of BEXP into Elincia just to have her use the Rescue staff well... Also, I mentioned sleep because I honestly don't really see silence as too worrisome, seeing as it'll likely fail on its intended targets.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Dark Sage]

5/10 mediocre support bot on a horse. Can get offense on the level of Boyd w/Sonic Sword and pretty useful for the Rescue staff but former requires favoritism.

Also lol at Crash for being creepy and lol at Snowy at hyping SS Mia. Who cares about giving a mediocre 7 move unit some 1-2 range when I can give to Tanith who is boss and rapes face with it.

[Onmi]

I feel talk of who "Gets" each band is sort of a Misnomer. So long as we aren't talking efficient play, You should be able to just trade the bands around. Especially for someone like Mist who isn't getting good EXP unless she's healing before promotion. to draw an FE5 comparison, these are scrolls not skill manuals, they aren't locked in to anyone

[Shadow Mir]

lol at Snowy at hyping SS Mia. Who cares about giving a mediocre 7 move unit some 1-2 range when I can give to Tanith who is boss and rapes face with it.

The sad thing is... That isn't even the worst thing he tried to do. He also tried to talk up the Bolt Axe as usable (and on Largo, no less, nevermind the fact that axe users on the whole tend to have pathetic mag). And as for SS Mia, I'm sure he's still deluded enough to continue to defend it after being called out on his double standard.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Colonel M]

You know, you guys could've pulled these arguments against Snowy and it would've won on the first post:

- Mist has +1 Mov on Mia

- Mist has Canto over Mia

- Mist can heal over Mia

- Hey guess what Marcia can use SS too so why not use Marcia instead of Mia since she flies and has Canto? Oh wait...

- Shut the fuck up about Mia

But seriously no one should care about SS Mist's combat because 10/1 Mist has 13.6 Spd and 20/1 Mist requires some BEXP plowing, and after 20 uses have been expired it's all for naught (unless you really want to try with Runesword's 15 Wt, then be my guess). And SS Mia's combat is even more of a joke when Tanith can use the Sword without resources and still perform better than Mia.

Christ almighty on a fucking stick topped with jalapenos, what the fuck is wrong with you people?

By the way, to prevent an "off-topic" sort of post, I'll just post a rating.

Let me be clear that I seriously have little liking for Mist because I actually do think she's slightly overrated, but her advantages are prominent. She is a healer, so her EXP gains aren't really fought over by other units and she contributes in that regard. Her promotion gains of +3 Mov and Canto alone are pretty amazing, and obviously worth to have for a team that's likely going to be dominated by horses and flying units (that is if you're smart enough to do this). And since this is supposedly assuming Fixed Mode (erm... why?), I guess you can sort of raise her Mag, Str, and Spd to par... but...

...The main thing is, if you're looking at Mist outside of a healer and Rescue bot, chances are you're doing something wrong. I guess she can chip at a unit since a forged Steel Sword gives her "okay" combat, and it is also true that Arms Scrolls have little competition for Sonic Sword. The main reason I can allow it to "pass" is because Hammerne exists... though it doesn't pop up until Chapter 23 when Sonic Sword came at Chapter 17. So that means its uses have to be conserved until Hammerne is around. So this is where I could find it "acceptable" to a point.

If you're willing to BEXP plow Mist in Random Mode to Level 20, here's my advice - just do it. Chances are at this point your other combat units like Jill and Marcia are good to go, and the others don't need a severe amount of help. It does come at a hefty cost of roughly 1,645 BEXP (assuming figures like Anouleth has, but I wonder if he took Torch and at least Physic into calculation. I don't know where Ward is other than in FE6), though you can skip 143 BEXP with a Master Seal.

While I know that rating topics like this shouldn't take "Unit X" into account, my biggest debacle is always and will always be why Mist should have it when Tanith exists with a passable Mag stat and can use it to roughly the same effect. Spirit Dusts can also be put into her just in case, for some reason, she misses ORKOes and her combat doesn't really suffer otherwise without it (16 Str is going to last a while in FE9... just saying). That, and Tanith flies which helps her case even more. But, take into consideration the following:

Tanith > "Trained" Mist >>>>>> 10/1 Mist >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Retarded shit like Mia using Sonic Sword.

Oh yeah, Ayanami actually reminded me of something (so thank you). Supports. They play pretty decent in her favor. Titania, Mordecai if you really want to (WaterXWater is amazing), Boyd, and Jill. I think Titania and Jill are probably the most likely, with Boyd being a "maybe" and Mordecai probably a pass (his Spd is way too out of whack).

I know my rating obviously won't count, but I think having my input is... nice. You don't have to count my vote obviously, but I would say a 6.5/10 for Mist, with a -0.5 bias tacked onto it (so from 7 -> 6.5) just because I'm sick and goddamn tired of hearing SS Mist all the fucking time when Tanith has better reasons to use it at that point. BUT, Mist comes at a close second, so I can't really hate on her that much for it.

By the way, I challenge Snowy to a proper debate. A duel against the classiest of Serenes Forest people.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Colonel M

[PuffPuff]

All righty!

Time for a really popular character.

Only staff user I find worthy to use that could get good Mag like Elincia with the Mage Band. You can always give her Spirit Dusts if she got screwed in it. She is worthy for at last one of them. We need her to heal farther with Physic staves and to induce better recovery. She's crying for Mend with her horrible Mag compared to Elincia's. She definitely can go for the Rune Sword. That is if u can get her Mag there. It will require some work with forged weapons to make that happen. Because of her horrible Str. She is the only character in the game worthy of the Energy Drops to have an easier time to get her sword LV up. Otherwise u can give em to Soren. We need for him to have better Con. Ahem. Back to Mist.

When she can finally fight, you will certainly want to put her by Ike to give her better crit 10%. Support her either with Mordecai for more Power and Def, erm if ur sword raising her. Otherwise go with Rolf or Jill. As she needs that 2.5 better avoid for better dodge. In fact, you don't even need to support her at all thanks to her Miracle skill that keeps her from getting killed sometimes. Reduction from lethal blows that are halved always helps. Only use her or Elincia is all I'll have to say. Rhys only get better Mag than the two thanks to his better Mag growth than Mist's and cap. Mist has the second best cap in Mag of the three. Though she will go slower of the three to reach her cap. Unless she has a Mag Band and a Spirit Dust. Elincia will reach hers faster of the three. And lets not forget. She also gets a HORSE upon class change. So never give her the boots cuz of this. Rhys is the only one to not get any good movement unless in the desert chapter. And Elincia gets a Pegasus for good ferrying and suffering no terrain penalities. Mist can ferry quite well too with Savior.

Anyway...

NM

6/10 7/10 bias Cuz she's my favorite character in the game.

HM

5.5/10 6.5/10 bias Cuz she's also so pure and happy. =)

Edited April 7, 2012 by リンダ

[aku chi]

- Hey guess what Marcia can use SS too so why not use Marcia instead of Mia since she flies and has Canto? Oh wait...

Last I checked, there were only two Arms Scrolls in PoR, not the 3 that Marcia would need to wield the Sonic Sword. Plus, Marcia has worse Magic than Mia.

The (non-Snowy) rationale for giving Mia, Stefan, or Ike the Sonic Sword is to give them some 1-2 range option. Sure, Tanith can make better use of the Sonic Sword on the whole, but letting one of these Sword-locked units use the Sonic Sword on occasion isn't without merit. Feeding them Spirit Dusts and equipping them with the Mage Band on the other hand....

[Shadow Mir]

All righty!

Time for a really popular character.

Only staff user I find worthy to use that could get good Mag like Elincia with the Mage Band. You can always give her Spirit Dusts if she got screwed in it. She is worthy for at last one of them. We need her to heal farther with Physic staves and to induce better recovery. She's crying for Mend with her horrible Mag compared to Elincia's. She definitely can go for the Rune Sword. That is if u can get her Mag there. It will require some work with forged weapons to make that happen. Because of her horrible Str. She is the only character in the game worthy of the Energy Drops to have an easier time to get her sword LV up. Otherwise u can give em to Soren. We need for him to have better Con. Ahem. Back to Mist.

When she can finally fight, you will certainly want to put her by Ike to give her better crit 10%. Support her either with Mordecai for more Power and Def, erm if ur sword raising her. Otherwise go with Rolf or Jill. As she needs that 2.5 better avoid for better dodge. In fact, you don't even need to support her at all thanks to her Miracle skill that keeps her from getting killed sometimes. Reduction from lethal blows that are halved always helps. Only use her or Elincia is all I'll have to say. Rhys only get better Mag than the two thanks to his better Mag growth than Mist's and cap. Mist has the second best cap in Mag of the three. Though she will go slower of the three to reach her cap. Unless she has a Mag Band and a Spirit Dust. Elincia will reach hers faster of the three. And lets not forget. She also gets a HORSE upon class change. So never give her the boots cuz of this. Rhys is the only one to not get any good movement unless in the desert chapter. And Elincia gets a Pegasus for good ferrying and suffering no terrain penalities. Mist can ferry quite well too with Savior.

Anyway...

NM

6/10 7/10 bias Cuz she's my favorite character in the game.

HM

5.5/10 6.5/10 bias Cuz she's also so pure and happy. =)

You're late. And why would Mist want to support Rolf???

[Colonel M]

Last I checked, there were only two Arms Scrolls in PoR, not the 3 that Marcia would need to wield the Sonic Sword. Plus, Marcia has worse Magic than Mia.

The (non-Snowy) rationale for giving Mia, Stefan, or Ike the Sonic Sword is to give them some 1-2 range option. Sure, Tanith can make better use of the Sonic Sword on the whole, but letting one of these Sword-locked units use the Sonic Sword on occasion isn't without merit. Feeding them Spirit Dusts and equipping them with the Mage Band on the other hand....

Hey man just swing that Iron Sword no one will be looking at you any different.

Besides, 20/1 Marcia has, what, 21 Atk without a forge and 26 with? Aside from Seeker, promoted units, and Armor Knights, does that really miss a lot of KOes around the time she promotes with the "BEXP plow" rule? Also, a 20/1 Marcia has a -1 Mag deficit on a 20/1 Mia. Considering Marcia is more than likely reaching 20/1 before Mia, I would have to say it's actually Mia that has worse Mag than Mia...

Now I understand the (non-Snowy) rationale because I've used it for Ike a couple of times. I just wanted to be an ass with the Marcia bit (I knew she came with E Swords).

Edited April 7, 2012 by Colonel M

[Elieson]

Hey man just swing that Iron Sword no one will be looking at you any different.

Besides, 20/1 Marcia has, what, 21 Atk without a forge and 26 with? Aside from Crows and Armor Knights, does that really miss a lot of KOes around the time she promotes with the "BEXP plow" rule? Also, a 20/1 Marcia has a -1 Mag deficit on a 20/1 Mia. Considering Marcia is more than likely reaching 20/1 before Mia, I would have to say it's actually Mia that has worse Mag than Mia...

Now I understand the (non-Snowy) rationale because I've used it for Ike a couple of times. I just wanted to be an ass with the Marcia bit (I knew she came with E Swords).

Thanks to you, I'm going to take advantage of my ridiculously blessed Marcia and let her use the Sonic Sword now. 8 Mag at lv.14, she-uut.

But on an on-topic note, if you're poping that sword on Mist, you had better be damned sure that you do it near the beginning of the turn. She's not exactly built to be an offensive mage.

[PuffPuff]

You're late. And why would Mist want to support Rolf???

Dunno. Maybe to chip better. -_-

[Shadow Mir]

Dunno. Maybe to chip better. -_-

Have you even considered the fact that Rolf is EASILY Mist's worst support option??? And it's not like Rolf's getting anything meaningful out of it either... Water/Wind support bonuses are pretty horrendous.

Edited April 7, 2012 by Metal King Slime