Othin Plays FE13!

[Xeniferos]

Thanks for clarification on Mug! I might definitely have to make use of it in my playthrough(s)... Because I love gold.

[Othin]

On Lunatic chapter 17 I cleared the first set of enemies(RHS first and then have those on the left run towards the right and handle those enemies as they approech you) just went to the right side of the map and straight for the boss. I ignored the chests(though it means missing out on the Boots). Though I did find that you can block off the reinforcements with characters on the stairs but it wasn't really worth it as I finished the map just as they show up on the enemy phase. The Boss is a bit of a pain though since she's rather fast and on a throne tile.

18 though is definitely a map you want to clear slowly(I'm still on it), there's almost no way to outmaneuver the enemies to get to Rehna and even then from his stats he's too fast to have a reliable chance of killing in a single round and the enemies only move if you're in range or they get hit by the lava floor when it crumbles underneath them.

Well, this sounds challenging.

Completed Ch16. Almost managed it earlier, but then a bunch of Falcoknight reinforcements appeared on Turn 5 and killed my characters before I could do anything. This time, I just killed Cervantes on Turn 5 player phase by moving quickly enough to get MU to attack him, then have Libera grab Olivia so she could refresh MU and finish off Cervantes to end the map.

So on Ch17, the generics range from 25-30 Spd, and the boss has 34. That's just not fair. And every enemy has the Accuracy +10 skill, which I wasn't expecting. Shouldn't be a big deal; I couldn't rely on dodging against promoted enemies anyway. I'm not surprised to see that the enemies are all using forged B rank weapons, and I guess I should've been expecting that that would also mean that lower-ranked weapons like Longbows and Hammers would now reach their hacked double-forged stats, but I wasn't. And of course the hacked weapons are even better than the singularly forged Silvers. Seems the Snipers with hacked Longbows all have 153 Hit before factoring in their Accuracy +10 skill... or the Accuracy +20 skill some of them have. This is going to be hell.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Othin

[Only My Unit]

Yeesh, I hope enemies don't know how to use Cries.

[dondon151]

Yeesh, I hope enemies don't know how to use Cries.

Judging by a video of the final chapter, I'm pretty sure they do.

[Othin]

They don't strategically use them, but they use them automatically after moving if available.

None of the enemies here have them, though.

[Only My Unit]

Well, at least you don't have to worry about it until even closer to endgame. Fight on, Othin!

Edit: As a question for whenever you get back to this post, do 'Ketes use magic or strength to attack? Or both? (I forgot entirely, due to rarely using any dragons)

Edited June 19, 2012 by Only My Unit

[Othin]

Manaketes just use Str.

As for not having to worry about Cries for a while, that's not entirely true; they've been showing up for a while, but they often aren't a big concern because the enemies don't actually try to use them effectively. And actually, I was wrong: the Valkyries and Battle Monks here sometimes use Resistance Cry and Luck cry, but neither one is much of a concern.

Speaking of skills, the enemy Battle Monks often have Resistance +2. Wonder how they got that, eh? They don't have Secluded Lady, though; enemies only have up to five possible skills, so for promoted classes with two possible first tiers, one skill has to be left behind. A number of skills don't get used by enemies anyway, like Defender, Weapon Saver, and Dual Support+, but all six of the Battle Monk skills are accepted, so they just dropped Secluded Lady from their own list. Valkyries still use the skill.

[Only My Unit]

That's kinda odd. At least Valkyries are generally easier to murder.

Wait, then why does the Dragonstone boost Mag?

Edited June 19, 2012 by Only My Unit

[Othin]

That's kinda odd. At least Valkyries are generally easier to murder.

Wait, then why does the Dragonstone boost Mag?

The Valkyries are actually the scariest enemies on this map, by far. They're the fastest at 30 Spd, able to double and 2HKO almost my entire team: without Double support, only Krom, Dion, Libera, and Sairi avoid getting one-rounded. Their huge mobility and near-immunity to magic used to counter their ranged attacks just makes them even scarier. It was hard enough in Ch16 dealing with the Heroes that could steamroll most of my team, and the Valkyries are even harder to fight. Oh, and there are twice as many Heroes now.

Can't say about the Dragonstone.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Othin

[Only My Unit]

Valkyries actually being DANGEROUS?! WHAT MADNESS IS THIS?

[Exiledwolf]

Weren't Valkyries also dangerous in FE7 HHM cog of destiny? Can you say that they compare to those Valks?

Also, how good are the magical units (and enemies) physical defense on lunatic? Are they harder to kill in general, our are they really weak to physical attacks?

[Thor Odinson]

I think they honestly sound a lot scarier than the Cog Valks, who may have doubled many but didn't hit very hard, and any one of the trained Peg sisters, with a pure water/barrier, should be able to deal with them no problem. None of my team was dying because of the Valks, rather, some of them annoyed the hell out of me by berserking people who came too close while the others suicided like good little enemies on my properly barriered Falcoknight.

[Othin]

Weren't Valkyries also dangerous in FE7 HHM cog of destiny? Can you say that they compare to those Valks?

Also, how good are the magical units (and enemies) physical defense on lunatic? Are they harder to kill in general, our are they really weak to physical attacks?

I've never played that far in HHM, but FE13's Valkyries are a lot like what I've heard of those. But yes, Valkyries have never been an easy enemy.

Edit: Or maybe those were just powerful by FE7's low standards for difficulty, looking at Lumi's post. These are truly scary.

For player characters, I could never use Miriel or Richt for long because they would just fall apart at any attack. MU does better, though, and Liz and Mariabel were able to work out fine since they didn't have to fight. Sariya and Henry are sturdy, but too slow to avoid getting doubled.

Enemy mages are generally easy to kill, but they hit for enormous damage in the meantime, and ranged attacks are hugely threatening in Lunatic. Libera can do fine against them, though. But this only goes for the unpromoted mages. Dark Knights are of course sturdy, and Valkyries are incredibly fast. I imagine Sorcerers and Dark Pegasi will also fit into those two respective categories when I start encountering them. Not so worried about enemy Sages for the time being.

Anyway, I came up with a way to get through the middle right path and reach Fels on Turn 5, but I lost three characters in the process and screwed up the kill. I should be able to have Krom secure the kill if I give him the Beast Killer and keep Olivia alive, as I plan to. The strategy also needs some work, and I think it'll take more Rescue staffs to not run out. A lot of characters seem to be dead weight at this point, but I still want to deploy a full team, and they may be useful for ganging up on other enemies I need to kill if I plan things right. At the moment, Krom and MU are doing almost all the fighting.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Othin

[Exiledwolf]

So I would assume that physical defense is more wanted than resistance? Or do you want mixed defenses?

Also, which promoted enemies have you not encountered yet and do you feel you should worry about them?

[Othin]

Both are good, but it's much more important to be really good at one than decent at both. The issue is, so few characters have good Res, but it's really valuable for Libera.

I think it's easier to list the promoted enemies that I have encountered so far:

Hero

Sage (just one)

Trickster (just Gangrel)

Paladin

Bow Knight

Warrior

Sniper

Great Knight

General

Dark Knight

Falcon Knight

Battle Monk

Valkyrie

Hmm, that's still most of them. The scariest ones are definitely the faster and the more mobile ones. Range also plays a part, and they have a decent likelihood of possessing whatever skills they might have. For example, of the five Warriors in Ch16, about two would usually have Counter, so I'd need to specifically target those with MU and blast them with Arcthunder rather than letting them ever get the first attack. The variability in which ones would have it would often change my strategies.

I should note that all regular classes appear as enemies throughout the game, with the exception of Priest/Cleric and Troubadour. So the rest are all on their way at some point.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Othin

[Othin]

Well, I dragged myself through Ch17. The right side was surprisingly easy once I left behind some of the dead weight characters that were no longer helpful. Took plenty of trickery and careful strategy as usual, but just one attempt.

But now I'm face to face with this fucker.

Renha

Swordmaster

LV15

HP 66

Str 32+5

Mag 3

Skl 39

Spd 41

Luck 39

Def 21

Res 19

Move -

Sword A

Amatsu, Noble Rapier

Accuracy +10, Avoid +10, Sword Expert, Astra, Vantage

My fastest character is MU at 33 Spd. Without buffs, I have absolutely no character capable of surviving a single round against him. With Krom in Double, MU can avoid both the double and the 2HKO to last two rounds, but that's before taking the lava floor into consideration, so he still needs healing. Then there's Astra. If he activates that, his damage is precisely enough to kill Krom!MU at full HP. If MU gets any Def or HP during the map, he'll be able to survive to get healed if it happens on the player phase, but if it's on the enemy phase, the lava floor will kill him. The only way to work around this is to give up the enemy phase entirely and use either Rescue or Olivia to pull MU out of range every player phase, my whole team taking damage from the floor the whole time. Did I mention MU isn't looking at doing better than a 4HKO with shaky accuracy?

Of course, this is all after I get to Renha. In the meantime, I have to slog through a field of Swordmasters, Sages, Warriors, and Griffin Knights. The Swordmasters have 35 Spd and double everything, the Sages hit crazy hard and at range, the Warriors have a ton of Str and Counter, and the Griffin Knights can fly past my defenses. I'm not even sure where to begin thinking about how to slog through this, and the only thing keeping me from saying I can't imagine how it could get worse is the thought of Ch19 ahead.

[BBM]

Well, if you're not against sacrificing units, you could put an armored/beast unit beside him to get him to switch to Noble Rapier, and then bombard him with range, rescuing/dancing for them after they attack so that Renha won't switch back to the Amatsu on EP.

[goodperson707]

Well, if you're not against sacrificing units, you could put an armored/beast unit beside him to get him to switch to Noble Rapier, and then bombard him with range, rescuing/dancing for them after they attack so that Renha won't switch back to the Amatsu on EP.

i'm pretty sure Renha is not a lord great lord or starlord

[Othin]

Yeah, he can't actually use the Noble Rapier; he just holds it to drop it. And I'm not sacrificing anyone.

[BBM]

Only lords can use the Rapiers? Huh, I didn't know that... How much damage does the lava floor do each turn? 10? And Frederick would still be doubled, but can he survive a round with a +Def double like Callum?

[Only My Unit]

That's been the weapons of lords since the NES, man.

[Dark Sage]

That's been the weapons of lords since the NES, man.

Not in FE5

@Othin: Do any of your units know Speed Cry or Rainbow Cry? That could help against Rehna. Plus MU might proc HP or defense on the map before fighting him, which could prevent him from being killed by Astra.

[Othin]

Frederick's falling really far behind; he has 18 Def and 41 HP to Renha's 52 Atk. He's not going to stand a chance. Only Krom and MU can fight him.

Yeah, 10 damage. To be honest, I think I can manage Renha, but I have no idea how to reach him. In particular, there are 15 Griffin Knights on the map; they have 27 Spd and 47 Atk. Any one of them could one-round most of my team. I don't understand how I could possibly beat this.

@Othin: Do any of your units know Speed Cry or Rainbow Cry? That could help against Rehna. Plus MU might proc HP or defense on the map before fighting him, which could prevent him from being killed by Astra.

Only MU, and he's not much help to himself. Sairi and Krom are my next best fighters, and I definitely can't have them fight him. Getting an HP or Def level-up is my plan; MU levels up enough that it should be likely.

---

To be honest I feel pretty close to running through two or three of the KvK maps for Exp and to get some extra allies. I don't plan on playing any of them more than once, but it might just be enough to decide this if it's utterly unfeasible from this standpoint. And it should make the rest of the game that much more interesting.

Edited June 20, 2012 by Othin

[Shadow Stalker X]

Don't really know what kind of team you've been using, but couldn't you use a Sniper with a Longbow to fight Renha? The added range would keep you safe from Amatsu.

[Othin]

Don't really know what kind of team you've been using, but couldn't you use a Sniper with a Longbow to fight Renha? The added range would keep you safe from Amatsu.

Not using any Snipers.