Smiley Jim Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) I'm creating this list because Venusaur's tier list is long since dead. Trade evos will be considered, but that is all trading will be used for. With this in mind, all trade evo Pokes are tiered with the assumption that they reach their final form. This may change, in which case, I will add '(no evo)', to the Poke's name and give him a lower placement. While this is supposed to be an 'efficient' tier list, this is not one for a speedrun. There is a difference, you know. However, you know the (Exca)drill: Pokemon that help you beat the game faster go up higher. Unlike in Pokemon B/W, TM's are not infinite, so obviously, the more demand a certain TM has, the less likely a Pokemon has of obtaining said TM. Of course, TM's that can be gotten in infinite supply(i.e. Those bought at the Veilstone Department Store)may always be considered. Also, tutored moves may be considered, since they are not single use, but they require shards, so there is some doubt on their usefulness in an efficient setting. Also, HM utility is of more value in this game than it is in B/W, so Pokes that normally would be lower are higher thanks to their HM utility(e.g. Bibarel and Tropius) Tier List is now ordered. SS Tier: Chimchar Starly S Tier: Piplup Scyther Rotom Gible A Tier: Azelf Giratina Turtwig Machop Shinx Buizel Meditite B Tier: Abra Bidoof Ralts (Gallade) Shellos Gligar Ponyta Houndour Croagunk Cranidos Ralts (Gardevoir) Magikarp C Tier: Psyduck Eevee (Jolteon) Geodude Gastly Drifloon Eevee (Vaporeon) Hoothoot Eevee (Espeon) Zubat Tropius Pikachu Clefairy Budew Bronzor Barboach Eevee (Glaceon) Snorunt (Froslass) Wooper D Tier: Aipom Porygon Eevee (Leafeon) Heracross Girafarig Magnemite Mesprit Uxie Sneasel Snover Magmar Eevee (Flareon) Wingull Tentacool Marill Tangela Absol Goldeen Rhyhorn Electabuzz Buneary E Tier: Bonsly Onix Carnivine Chingling Duskull Swinub Eevee (Umbreon) Shieldon Mime Jr Skorupi Spiritomb Nosepass Lickitung Snorunt (Glalie) Hippopotas Chansey Kricketot F Tier: Riolu Togepi Burmy Cherubi Mantyke Munchlax Finneon Wurmple Combee Unown Feebas Current Arguments: Tropius Down. Glaceon Up. Budew Up. Gligar Up. Have at it. Also, follow my PT if you want. I did it because of the tier list dealie. Edited May 13, 2012 by Mercenary James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Can you make the B-Tier yellow a bit darker? I hate having to guess what it says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Shynx is basically an electric Starly, but with faster evolutions. Why is it two tiers below it, much less a tier below Rotom? They're practically two sides of the same coin, one being special offensive while hte other hits harder physically and bulkier despite bieng slower (though Shynx isn't so slow that he's getting outrunned by everything). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 My first thoughts looking at this are that Shinx needs to move up as well as Riolu (I don't think he should be that low, seeing as I used him in-game before and he's not too bad). Also maybe Piplup above Gible because of availability? I don't have much of a case for any of these yet, but maybe others can think for me since I haven't played Platinum in years (but I'll get to it for the sake of a draft soon enough). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 How do you guys feel about the 30 Speed difference between Staraptor and Luxray? Given that I forgot just about everything in Platinum, I can't take a side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 How do you guys feel about the 30 Speed difference between Staraptor and Luxray? It's not that bad, but it's still noticeable in some cases. I don't think the speed difference comprises the entire gap between them, imo. The gap needs to be closed a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 How do you guys feel about the 30 Speed difference between Staraptor and Luxray? Given that I forgot just about everything in Platinum, I can't take a side. It's honestly not that bad, and you don't really notice it until later in the game (and even then it's not a big deal). I think he deserves to go at the top of A tier at least, or maybe just under Azelf. Higher than Buizel's Aqua jet for sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 To those bitching about the tier list not being ordered: I haven't exactly ordered the tier list as of yet, so just wait a while. Have a nice day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 My bad, I totally missed that part. I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Next order of business, Ponyta needs to be B tier at minimum. Fast, is like your only other option for a fire type outside of Chimchar who comes early, and it's high Atk stat actually works for it since it gets Flame Wheel along with other potent physical attacks such as Stomp. Shieldon needs to drop to E. It's offense is not only terrible statistically, it lacks any good STABS and any reliable damage moves it can get are all hampered by bad accuracy. It's slow and vulnerable to all the Confuse status moves this game has because of it. It's only benefit is that it has Metal Sound, and that's it. Hardly worth the time or effort. Did I also mention slow leveling speed? I thin Glaceon is actually a viable lategame mon. Sure, you get it kinda low leveled, but Glaceon not only has a ludicrously fast leveling speed, it starts immediately with Ice Beam since the TM is found near the area you get it, and it has pretty nifty stats despite it's low base level. Gotta try the other Eevee forms in this game...It's the only game that gives you an Eevee relatively early. Edited April 28, 2012 by grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 So is Bidoof in B tier because its a HM slave? Honestly that'd be the only reason why its placement is there, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Shynx is basically an electric Starly, but with faster evolutions. Why is it two tiers below it, much less a tier below Rotom? shinx's STABs and coverage moves aren't nearly as good as starly's also L9 wing attack vs. L18 spark Edited April 28, 2012 by dondon151 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 shinx's STABs and coverage moves aren't nearly as good as starly's Well...true. Kinda why I was stating it should be the same tier as Rotom rather than actually up with Starly itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Azelf and Giratina seem a bit high considering they don't exist until the 7th gym. Espeon>Jolteon seems a bit odd too considering it's a pain to get happiness up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 TC needs to make this blink. The tiers are divided by section, but not ordered alphabetically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Are we assuming Scyther gets promoted with a Metal Coat trade? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 28, 2012 Author Share Posted April 28, 2012 (edited) Are we assuming Scyther gets promoted with a Metal Coat trade? Firstly, Pokemon do not promote. They evolve. Secondly, I did say that all trade evos would be assumed, but I might be adding a slot for no evolutions when applicable, if that's what the community wants. In your specific case, Scyther is in S because not only of Scizor, but because he's quite clutch against Maylene as Scyther(wild Scyther can be caught on Route 210), whatnot with Technician STAB Wing Attack super effectiving Meditite and Machoke with significantly more power(110 vs 75)than Staravia(I highly doubt you are getting Staraptor by Veilstone unless you either grind or solo with it), as well as being overall good against Team Galactic. Have a nice day. P.S.: Shieldon is now E tier, and Ponyta is B tier. Have a nice day. Edited April 28, 2012 by Mercenary James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 28, 2012 Share Posted April 28, 2012 Sooooo, no thoughts on this one? http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=32258&view=findpost&p=1959045 Also, this playthrough and the next, I'mma be trying out Vaporeon and then Lefeon. Umbreon last time did not impress me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I think Houndour should go down to top of C, or below Ponyta in B tier at least, once the list gets ordered. Their stats are basically the same, but Ponyta beats Gardenia and helps out against Fantina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) I think Houndour should go down to top of C, or below Ponyta in B tier at least, once the list gets ordered. Their stats are basically the same, but Ponyta beats Gardenia and helps out against Fantina. I dunno... Houndour evolves a lot earlier than Ponyta (level 24 as opposed to level 40). Edited April 29, 2012 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I think Houndour should go down to top of C, or below Ponyta in B tier at least, once the list gets ordered. Their stats are basically the same, but Ponyta beats Gardenia and helps out against Fantina. How does Ponyta exactly help against Fantina in a meaningful fashion, but all parts prior to Houndour are still true. Dark doesn't exactly have a lot of standing in Shinnoh. I dunno... Houndour evolves a lot earlier than Ponyta (level 24 as opposed to level 40). Houndour I believe has a slow leveling speed, as does Houndoom. I should know, I use it like every playthrough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiley Jim Posted April 29, 2012 Author Share Posted April 29, 2012 (edited) Following new legislation as well as some arguments on BigBangMeteor's part, Houndour has been dropped to C for the time being. Have a nice day. Edited April 29, 2012 by Mercenary James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 The point is that Ponyta is THERE for Fantina, and can still Flame Wheel or something. Also, even if Houndour evolves earlier, what are the gyms between when he evolves and when Ponyta evolves? Evolution won't help him against Wake, and IIRC, Byron has Earthquake or something to OHKO both Ponyta and Houndoom. Then they both destroy Candice, and Ponyta is evolved for Volkner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 I just realized something. Vaporeon's in B tier. Why, when it has no real offense until Surf comes along? Like...It learns it's first semi-reliable attack at 36 (Aurora Beam, which isn't even a STAB. At least Glaceon is near it's STAB). You don't get a water TM until Crasher Wake, and that's basically just 2 gyms with Surf, one of which is Volkner the Second Coming of Zeus. Would take Leafeon with Bullet Seed over that. Decently high Atk combines well with it. Sure, Bullet Seed is rather unreliable in stable damage, but anything vulnerable to grass or is just generally undurable will get smashed by it regardless, and beats Vaporeon having generally nothing. Leafeon is also faster. Not to say Leafeon is exactly stellar. Have to say, whoever's bright idea it was to give you a 20 Eevee while all the evolutions learn their reliable moves 5 levels before 20 is a gigantic troll. Only one that gets a reliable move in some relevent time frame is Jolteon in the form of Shockwave before Veilstone. Otherwise it's Umbreon with Bite, but that whole happiness evolution is messy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 Houndour vs. Ponyta sounds like a tough one. Ponyta has WAY more availability than Houndour, and doesn't mind waiting for lv. 40 with lv. 15 Flame Wheel and surprisingly high attack and speed bases (especially for an unevolved Pokemon). If you don't pick Chimchar and pick one up early, it'll get plenty of EVs. Through Move Relearner, it gets Megahorn, which is handy in the E4. Houndour comes later, but can be evolved the instant you catch it (with a Rare Candy if you please). It will have just Ember and Bite for a while however, making its offence no better than Ponyta at the same level with Flame Wheel. Move Relearner grants it Thunder Fang, which is of little use outside of demolishing Crasher Wake's Gyarados. It may not learn Crunch and Nasty Plot until the end of the game, depriving it of a strong physical STAB that it would appreciate for Lucian, and a useful setup move which could help it anywhere. I'd say Ponyta > Houndour, though they both should probably be in the same tier because there's not much of a difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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