Magic being grouped together and no magic triangle

[Bryan]

I believe keeping Fire/Thunder/Wind as a single weapon type with its own weapon triangle makes the most sense gameplay-wise. But since the internal weapon triangle is not an option, I'd rather just see Anima as a single rank with a wide variety of each sub-type.

This is soo true.

I wish they would have added some type of light magic. I actually like the idea that it goes off of staff level rather than tome level. You'd just need the skill to unlock it just like dark magic.

[Anouleth]

This is soo true.

I wish they would have added some type of light magic. I actually like the idea that it goes off of staff level rather than tome level. You'd just need the skill to unlock it just like dark magic.

Like in FE9. There was no Light magic rank, there was only Staff Rank and the Lumina skill which let you use staff rank to cast light magic. I think that's really an excellent solution. Assuming it's a Priest skill, it gives Priests an edge over Troubadores and speeds up the usually painful process of building staff rank.

Certainly sounds a lot better than Miracle at level 10...

[Othin]

Like in FE9. There was no Light magic rank, there was only Staff Rank and the Lumina skill which let you use staff rank to cast light magic. I think that's really an excellent solution. Assuming it's a Priest skill, it gives Priests an edge over Troubadores and speeds up the usually painful process of building staff rank.

Certainly sounds a lot better than Miracle at level 10...

Healing Heart is at LV10, which is actually quite good, since the healing gets increased by the equivalent of +10 Mag.

But yeah, light magic as an innate ability for Priests / Clerics and Battle Monks / Clerics like dark magic for Dark Mages and Sorcerers could have worked out quite well, especially to differentiate the former compared to Troubadours and the latter compared to... just about any other healing class. Perhaps the most significant thing is that in this case, light magic wouldn't be expected to be that good: it could be as ineffective as in other games, and as just a bonus option for characters without other tome abilities not competing directly with other tome users, it could have worked out just fine as that secondary option.

[dondon151]

But sage is far better than any crappy light magic wielding class...

[Othin]

But sage is far better than any crappy light magic wielding class...

Battle Monks are not simply a "light magic wielding" class: they are a bulky healer class able to do heavy physical damage with axes, and ultimately learn a great self-healing skill. Light magic would simply be a tertiary ability for them.

[CrashGordon94]

"Right way to do it" Why? I entirely disagree because it never works.

Then you make it work, duh!

The main problem is that it's entirely illogical to give a magical classes FIVE weapons. Physical classes have a lot more diversity, and simply, there's a lot more physical classes, and they only have FOUR weapons.

That's not important in any meaningful way.

As I've pointed out before, every single split Anima game has quite a number of issues.

And as I'VE pointed out, there are other ways to deal with those issues than to just give up!

Furthermore, it's not merging weapon types.

Yes it is!

It's that Anima is occasionally split.

And that's a load of bullcrap semantics!

[Zyriex]

I think one of the only ways separating anima could work again would involve vastly increasing the rate at which a unit gains tome weapon exp.

When it gets separated, you have magical units that have to deal with three or four (staff upon promotion) weapon types compared to physical units that generally only have to deal with one or two.

[NeonZ]

The magical units don't need to handle the entire magical triangle though, if you're attempting to make each type of anima into a weapon set. In fact, if you're separating the anima types, the best thing to do would be to design classes for each one or for different combination of types, exactly like the physical classes. In addition, Res of mage units should be toned down to FE3 levels -at least- to make mage vs mage battles viable.

Trying to make an anime triangle while keeping i attached to a single class and without making mage vs mage combat viable only results in balance problems and a mostly unused weapon triangle.

Edited May 8, 2012 by NeonZ

[arvilino]

Then you make it work, duh!

The solution is to make a better system honestly. You don't force a size 8 foot in a size 3 shoe. You don't put in 5 different magic ranks, with a set of three that are nearly redundant as they all come on the same classes.

Mages don't have great enemy phases and get less attacks of their weapon ranks fall behind physical units. Having 3 anima ranks just means they can't be used to their full potential. Having 1 of the three Anima ranks means the same as their flexibility is significantly reduced.

These are all solved by having a single Tomes rank.

Edited May 8, 2012 by arvilino

[CrashGordon94]

I think one of the only ways separating anima could work again would involve vastly increasing the rate at which a unit gains tome weapon exp.

Yeah, that too.

The solution is to make a better system honestly.

And this is a WORSE system, so that argument is invalid. There's so much great potential in splits and so many better ways to fix the problems than giving up on it!

These are all solved by having a single Tomes rank.

And as I said there are other, better ways to do it!

[epilepsyduck]

And as I said there are other, better ways to do it!

Could you try, I dunno, actually saying these "better" ways? All you've done so far is complain about the lack of different magic ranks (which I admit is a little disappointing, at least for me) as if that's an explanation rather than a thesis. I'd actually like to hear what sort of ideas you've got in mind.

Edited May 10, 2012 by whenbananasattack

[arvilino]

And this is a WORSE system, so that argument is invalid. There's so much great potential in splits and so many better ways to fix the problems than giving up on it!

Nah I think it's the better solution. So your argument is invalid, especially so on the grounds you have none.

Unless you explain this potential. What else is there from a split except pigeonholing Mages into a specific ranks?

Edited May 10, 2012 by arvilino

[Saaji]

One way they could make the anima work is make them separate yet connected ranks. So lets say our mage uses a thunder tome s/he gets 2wexp for thunder and 1 for wind and fire. Since they are enhancing their experience with the elemental arts overall but mainly with thunder in this case. Make the gaps in experience gain a little bit larger perhaps and make so to reach the Max rank(A in this case) you need to use the actual element you're trying to raise.

[CrashGordon94]

Could you try, I dunno, actually saying these "better" ways? All you've done so far is complain about the lack of different magic ranks (which I admit is a little disappointing, at least for me) as if that's an explanation rather than a thesis. I'd actually like to hear what sort of ideas you've got in mind.

Right, well the main complaints are:

Split magic types being unbalanced, too similar and/or useless: Make them balanced, more different or useful, of course! Yes it takes some thought but it CAN be done! Perhaps you could even add in some neat goodies to only one of the elemental trio or somethign if you want.

Redundancy, everyone has access to all of the three Anima groups: Make some classes that DON'T have all three! Perhaps it could be something like the 1st tier Anima classes only have one but they have a split promotion to Sages who have all three and something else that only has the original one but adds something else (For some quick examples Wind Mages could have a Wind/Sword flying class, Fire Mages could have a mounted Fire/Lances class and Thunder Mages could have a heavily armored one with Thunder and Axes. And maybe Shamans could pick ONE of the elemental magic types on promotion to Druid like an FE9 Paladin!). This is probably the strongest point because you could do a lot of interesting and fun things with this that couldn't do otherwise!

Too hard to raise: Up WEXP for tomes or reduce their weapon rank gaps, or both! Maybe even Saaji's solution because that doesn't sound bad either.

These are the only severe complaints I could remember off the top of my head.

Basically having them split is the better way because if you put some thought into it you can do things you couldn't with only one magic type, the payoff is just so much better than merging.

[CrashGordon94]

Anima magic ISN'T split here...

[goodperson707]

Anima magic ISN'T split here...

i think he means that there is thunder fire and wind magic at least one per weapon rank except for A rank there is no thunder magic for it so technically there is still a split just sharing the same rank and no triangle which is in my opinion how it should be

[CrashGordon94]

That's not a split.

[goodperson707]

That's not a split.

it pretty much is even if they share a weapon rank as there is one of each for each type and they have unique properties

that's a split

if you split a pie in thirds yet keep them in the pie plate they are still technically split

Edited May 11, 2012 by goodperson707

[CrashGordon94]

it pretty much is even if they share a weapon rank as there is one of each for each type and they have unique properties

NO, if they share a weapon rank then they are BY DEFINITION not split!

[goodperson707]

enough once again without fire emblem involved

if you split a pie in thirds yet keep them in the pie plate are they split in my opinion yes

therefore they are technically split as they have a tome for each element for each rank yet share a weapon rank

Edited May 11, 2012 by goodperson707

[CrashGordon94]

That doesn't work when applied to FE weapons though, it's a completely bunk analogy.

[goodperson707]

how odes it not work it is split but in the same place just like the pie and since you asked for it i think you logic is complete bunk theier split but in the same rank deal with it if you have aproblem that's fine but they are still split no matter what you think now if you have a problem pm enough of the off topicness

[CrashGordon94]

Nope, no PM.

The thing is they're not like pie pieces, whether they're "split" or not can't be seperated from their "place". What makes a weapon type a different weapon type and hence "split" is having a different weapon rank, the Fire and Thunder aren't "split" in FE13 any more than Swords and Blades.

Edited May 11, 2012 by CrashGordon94

[goodperson707]

that's enough of this

i thiknk there bassicly split you don't that's that whatever have a nice life

[arvilino]

Nope, no PM.

The thing is they're not like pie pieces, whether they're "split" or not can't be seperated from their "place". What makes a weapon type a different weapon type and hence "split" is having a different weapon rank, the Fire and Thunder aren't "split" in FE13 any more than Swords and Blades.

So FE9's Staves and Light Magic are the same weapon type? Or in Other words in FE9 Light Magic is a staff?

Edited May 11, 2012 by arvilino