Stop Crying Psych Minimafia - Night 2

[Grace]

Even a vanillager knows he is worth more to Town alive than dead. Especially on the first lynch push of the game. If there were a cleared player, or some actual claimed role, then there would be an internal weighing game. But with all other factors not existing, the one thing a vanillager knows is that he is town, and anybody else is up in the air. Town is best served by not mislynching. "Town is much better off with me alive than in the graveyard," would be an entirely valid claim to make. Not to mention the possible arguments about player skill. One might claim that a vanillager Prims would be more useful in many situations than a power-role Psych.

Yes, true. But yet, is it not true that town would prefer to a be vanillager down instead with a PR if they had the choice?

Also, speaking of "almost knowing too much", you complete disregard that if I were a power role, I could very well be a bomb and thus not care if I'm targeted for a kill tells much. It's almost as if you were sure that the setup didn't include the bomb, which would be information that only the mafia could possess at this stage.

Or the bomb themself might now which setup isn't possible, hmm?

Go back and catch my subtle hint from one of my previous posts. No really, I'll wait. I will spell it out for you eventually, just not today.

[Grace]

I also wish Manix would have provided something more solid after the unvote.

hi. I was kinda sleeping, but whatev.

welp forgot this part of my post

[Helios]

Or the bomb themself might now which setup isn't possible, hmm?

Go back and catch my subtle hint from one of my previous posts. No really, I'll wait. I will spell it out for you eventually, just not today.

Good thing I read backwards amirite

[Paperblade]

(2)Balcerzak: Levity, Prims, Aere, Manix

(2)Obviam: Levity, Helios

(1)Ether: Psych

(1)Aere: Helios, Balcerzak

(1)Psych: Ether

(1)Helios: Balcerzak, Obviam, Prims

(0)Prims: Manix

Not Voting: Manix

[Grace]

Or the bomb themself might know which setup isn't possible, hmm?

argh spelling

Also, I'm waiting to see Bal's reply before I put my vote anywhere.

[Balcerzak]

Also, I'm waiting to see Bal's reply before I put my vote anywhere.

If you think I'm going to point out places where someone may have softclaimed bomb out in the open where mafia can see them, you must think I'm a moron.

If you actually thought anyone not making a fake claim deciding to breadcrumb bomb in a game with no vig was a good idea, I think you're a moron.

[Aere]

Ok, back for a bit. Sorry, I didn't examine the thread before I made that vote. It was late, I was tired, the only thing I saw was Bal going aggressive. Maybe because of the long posts? Anyway, I've read the thread now.

@Prims, I kind of disagree with your scumhunting-town philosophy. Balcerzak is an experienced mafia player, I'd think he would... expect that thought process. Bal's also implied he has a powerful Town role, which is all the more reason for Mafia to have killed him last night/plotting to kill him tonight. I think his "reasoning" why he could be a simple villager isn't; most roles that were given in the setup are better off alive. I think Bal is trying to cover his tracks there, because if he is a town power-role and does not prove something/die tonight, we'll know something is up.

##Unvote: Balcerzak for now, I'm still suspicious.

I'm also wary of Helios, mainly because of this:

I can see your mindset Prims, but it could also be that newness can be used against me too. After all, why not keep a player in who isn't used to the game and how it works yet and kill someone who's more of a threat due to more experience? In SG, I figured out who was scum but couldn't think of an effective way to persuade people, so they could be trying to bank on that again, meaning I'd be fairly useless otherwise. Also, wasn't there a whole thing about how you and Bizz shouldn't be killed N1 so you two would actually play in the game for a little while?

This is simply flawed. I don't believe scorri has all that much experience anyway, and definitely not the most here. Plus, your "lack of an effective way to persuade people" seems like cover for a bad argument. I want to see what other people think of this, too.

[Aere]

Also, gonna be gone for a few hours. Probably 3-4.

[Grace]

If you think I'm going to point out places where someone may have softclaimed bomb out in the open where mafia can see them, you must think I'm a moron.

I didn't expect you to, at all. I don't take you for a moron, mmkay?

If you actually thought anyone not making a fake claim deciding to breadcrumb bomb in a game with no vig was a good idea, I think you're a moron.

I'm not quite sure what exactly I was thinking, but no one else has even implied in the least that they were breadcrumbing bomb, ie: there isn't a problem here.

##Vote: Bal

Now you're just rubbing me the wrong way as well. At this point, given what I've said before, I have no reservations left here. I don't care if Bal gets to L-1 again, cause I really think he's the best lynch target right now.

[Grace]

also, inb4 people say I was willing to believe town!Bal. I have a feeling there's something he's not telling us. Just call it that for now.

[Aleph]

Aleph thinks I'd be dangerous...I actually take that as a compliment haha.

No I was mostly just insulting everyone else

##Vote Helios

scorri was most likely a safe kill, since more prominent players were likely to be watched or docced. Gut says scumteam is Helios / Levity / Balcerzak, so let's go with that until I'm not in between naps.

Clever girl

I haven't played mafia in a while so I dunno how prominent scorri is, but if she's pretty new or something then that would indeed make it a "safe kill", which admittedly is the sort of kill I would make if I were mafia. Or rather, it used to be - this sort of killing indicates that the player is either brand fucking new or has some experience and is trying to do exactly what you're suggesting. I've since moved on to targeting people who are the most threatening to me when I'm mafia because you really can't tell if it's me or someone who just recently became familiar with who the good players are, and in either case it's to the advantage of the mafia to kill experienced players. If you ask me, whoever targeted scorri is, as I've said, probably either "brand fucking new" or someone who is right between the typical mafia player and I - someone who is fairly experienced.

Okay that was super arrogant, but whatever~, my point stands. Unless scorri is renowned and I'm just oblivious. Which is very possible

OH.

Obviam posted.

... I didn't realize he jumped on the Helios wagon. Didn't really say anything directly related to the vote, and then Prims casually added onto it. /: I don't see Prims doing something like that as scum, though.

Uh I am pretty sure I was the first person to vote for Helios

In any case your flitting around looks like some serious care-harding and the nitpicking isn't helping either. Like you're putting waaaay too much effort into making things look bad.

Elaboration on my Helios vote: Initial gut looked at the player list and scorri's death and tried to find someone with motive to see her gone. Together with myself he was on the losing end of scorri's scum brutality in the past game, and I figured that was as good a shitty reason as any to kick things off with.

No. Quit being terrible. You know better and even the most awful mafia players know better than to perform revenge kills, ESPECIALLY at the beginning of the game. Unless they're trying to do some yomi shit. Rafi quit playing mafia; most likely the bastards that offed scorri were going for one of them thar "safe kills" as Prims apparently suggested.

I know you admitted to your vote being bad but come on. If it's that trash just keep it to yourself, or lie and give a less absurd reason. You're causing me physical pain here, man. I thought we were friends.

alsooooo I hope we see more from Obviam soon because his single post is rubbing me the wrong way too

oooooh my christ.

Dear Shitty Forest.

I have a job.

I am home for approximately half the day during the week.

Less than about 20% of this time is spent browsing websites, of which SF is not even the highest priority.

Contend with it.

Bizz we're supposed to be married. Don't do this to me.

Obviam always rubs me the wrong way, if Choral IV is any indication. Even when I'm reading him talk outside of Mafia. I don't even know him.

Do you want to know what? I will rub you so wrong. You have no idea. Get at me little boy.

All I know is that Obviam has work. He told me during CM4 when he asked to be replaced that it's hard to play because he works full-time and sleeps a lot, so I don't actually know why he joi-

gonna stop you right there

MINI mafia. Not a big game, not a big deal. Not that it would be anyway.

Paperblade cybered him for it

Paperblade is a rapist and a creeper and fuck him.

There a difference between a petty reason, and resorting to RNG. [...other fluff]

Like I said it still made me nauseated.

But so does Manix losing his shit over it. carecarecare

kind of hard to miss a post that has bold in it, especially when it's my name

Anyway I could totally have a viable OMGUS on you right now for complaining about my inability to be active and then voting for me for not being around. Like, wow.

but if you somehow don't die tonight, be sure I'll be suspicious (not including a doc prevention). Maybe the possibly non-existent doc could protect Bal this phase? Iunno.

okay for fuck's sake, do you even understand the fundamentals of this game? "Dear Mafia. If you do not kill this person I will kill him for you." Yeah, THAT'S a smart way of dealing with a potential townie. If you're mafia

I've been mulling this ove-

no just shut up.

He's obviously lying, everyone. Psych does not "mull".

[arguing with a child]

Really, Ether? Don't waste your time, baby. OMG, YAS. As in, all of you.

##Vote Aleph/Obviam/Hexator/Dude who made FEditor

Share some opinions or something.

Helios/fuckhead/dumbass/imbecile

I have not been in a position to post on SF for over the past 18 hours

Okay this is bullshit because I want to vote for whoever of you is apparently the most stupid and thus full of (mafia) shit, but you're ALL SO TERRIBLE so I'm going to be lazy and pick one of you fucks at random. I will throw Aere into the mix because really, I skimmed this thread, but even so I noticed a lot of the same people posting and Aere wasn't one of them. I think maybe he really did vote and run.

Eeny, meeny, miny, もえ

catch a tiger by the #Vote: Ether I'm onto you you son of a bitch; the reason you don't look suspicious is because you're the only one here who's actually good at this game.

Oh and I should note that I didn't mean to include Prims in that. He's actually playing pretty decent.

If you're all retarded then you're not very threatening anyway, so the odds of saving the town are higher if I vote for someone halfway intelligent. Unfortunately for Ether Prims appears to be more of a townie than him at the moment.

I can't wait to be a useless piece of shit and play all these games

[Psych]

no just shut up.

He's obviously lying, everyone. Psych does not "mull".

I mean...what are you talking about?

[Aleph]

qed

[Prims]

Obviam's post frustrates me because the primary focus should be lynching scum. Voting obvscum playing badly because they'll flip scum > voting some dude who isn't as scummy and is only kinda iffy just because OH SHIT, THEY'RE BETTER AT THE GAME. Looks more like values dissonance than scumminess but I'm not really seeing why Ether should be the lynch today from his post. Psych responding to Obviam but ignoring the rest of the thread isn't helping this.

Also curious what Levity's thoughts on Obviam's post are. She feels like a background player.

Aere, your post seems to miss the point of my response to you - yes, scum can fake scumhunting, but 99% of the time town needs to scumhunt to win the game, while scum does not. Scumhunting on its own is not scummy. On that note, empty unvotes are lame. Who's scum and why?

Helios voting Obviam over the dude he claimed to find suspicious looks scummy. Voting people to get them to post doesn't really work when they'll do so on their own time. A low post rate on D1 isn't even scummy if you're contributing while you're around, so lynching people for not posting as much as they could be alone is pretty fruitless until D2. I don't see why he couldn't have just voted Aere and been done with it. Prod votes this late into the day are active lurking imo.

If Bal is town he should stop paying more attention to defense than offense. Is Aere still scum?

[Prims]

alsoooooooo

scorri is indeed a new player, this would have been her third game

[Aleph]

Wow okay so I'm about to get off of SF for another 18 hours and only Prims has posted, even though I posted as soon as I could?

and people wonder why I'm "not posting"

[Aere]

Ok Prims, I had just thought Bal's way of scumhunting and defense gave off scummy vibes. I still think he's scummy. I'm still thinking about his softclaim (I think that's the right term, I'm talking about his power role implication), and how he defended it.

I'm weighing Bal's experience and scumhunting tendencies against how he handled the softclaim. A power-role Bal is much more influential than a vanillager Bal. I think his hasty defense was to throw the mafia off of him, so he appears to be simply vanilla.

In other words, I think Bal is a power-role town now, despite what he may say.

[Aere]

Any I acknowledged that scorri was a new player, Prims, I said she didn't have a lot of experience. And to agree with Obviam, yeah, nobody is really posting.

[Percivalé]

hi.

I haven't been sleeping and I haven't had access to a computer all day, it's fucking finals week.

Obviam's post actually really fucking irritated me. Give me a minute before I start flipping my shi

I DID NOT VOTE YOU FOR NOT BEING AROUND GOD FUCKING DAMMIT READ MY FUCKING POST and please don't bring player skill into this, that really fucking irritated me.

[Percivalé]

I really didn't like his reaction in particular to my vote either but what the fuck ever

give me a minute to get out of bed, I'm still on my phone

[Balcerzak]

Ether is obviously confirmed town because I don't think he would have agreed to play without handpicking :wifom:

##Vote scorri because you should have been dead and dead again last game.

While rereading, I did notice that Prims's joke-vote during N1 actually matched the kill target. Current suspicion is mafia may have tried to frame him, by making it look like a just according to keikaku, but that's weak evidence at best.

However, if Bal claims a power role, and doesn't end up getting counter-claimed (it's a risk, but in reality someone with that power role shouldn't cc anyway because Bal would be a good scapegoat for him) and Mafia kills him, that ensures another night for that person to effectively use their role, which aids the town tremendously. So I suggest people keep that in mind.

This part of the post makes me feel a little uncomfortable. I'm going to come back and reread it later, to see if I'm reading into it the wrong way.

Returning to this a bit. Everybody other than bomb should better damn well counterclaim. The true bomb should, at least at this stage never claim, to keep the mafia guessing who it is, and I'm almost inclined to say the more bomb fakeclaims the better, but that may just be carrying things to their silliest conclusion.

There is no gain to letting a mafia member get away with a fake claim. The doctor is only not safe to counterclaim in the setup without the watcher, so he's playing the odds there, but cop and watcher can always safely counterclaim. Suggesting that somebody sit on the identity of confirmed mafia is downright foolhardy, and if you don't know better you should start learning as such. Power-roles don't need scapegoats, they just need other non-claimed power-roles to guard their backs.

The only situation where it would conceivably work out for the best is if a Vanillager fakeclaims, but in NOC the kind of coordination required to pull that off without fucking the whole town over doesn't exist. I've seen it done rarely, with mixed results. When pressed almost always the vanillager recants, they will never press it to a claim test lynch because they fucking know better.

I don't think this was necessarily a scumslip on your part, but you really need to be careful about making patently bad suggestions.

I'm not quite sure what exactly I was thinking, but no one else has even implied in the least that they were breadcrumbing bomb, ie: there isn't a problem here.

This coming from the man who as much as said that the reason he never considered the possibility that I was the bomb due to the fact that he was in fact the bomb? What do you mean there isn't any problems. You're starting to look all sorts of shady.

Add in the anti-town attitude,

Also, I don't really care if I die.

and you really are rubbing me the wrong way. I very much want to believe that it's not simply because you've been hounding me relentlessly, because I'm certainly able to keep a more objective attitude with re: Prims's insistence on my lynch. (Unless I'm kidding myself on that account as well.) Is nobody else catching this coming of suspicious?

If Bal is town he should stop paying more attention to defense than offense. Is Aere still scum?

This is a very good point but I'm admittedly weaker at offense. At the moment Aere still definitely seems to be trying to blend in, echoing mostly common sentiments, but he is certainly doing them in a more reasonable fashion. I can't honestly say he tops the list anymore.

Since I ought to put my money where my mouth is, I'm switching over.

##Unvote

##Vote: Manix

[Psych]

While rereading, I did notice that Prims's joke-vote during N1 actually matched the kill target. Current suspicion is mafia may have tried to frame him, by making it look like a just according to keikaku, but that's weak evidence at best.

Translator's note, Keikaku means plan.

I'm sorry I have nothing to comment, I'm just sick right now with a 101 fever and am in that section where everything is hilarious to me. I'm taking my meds and going to bed.

[Percivalé]

If you're all retarded then you're not very threatening anyway, so the odds of saving the town are higher if I vote for someone halfway intelligent. Unfortunately for Ether Prims appears to be more of a townie than him at the moment.

Aaaaaaaaaaaa

NO

no

no

no

no

NO

If you're really serious with this, that's... kind of shooting town in the foot, you realize that, right? You're wasting your vote based on a factor that has absolutely nothing to do with alignment. This bothers me. Why would you do that?

For the record, I voted for you not because you've been inactive but because you snuck in the Helios vote for no reason, and no, actually, you weren't the only one who voted for him, unless my memory is really that skewed. I need to read over the thread again anyway because yeah, I'll admit, I've been on my phone unable to post and skimming through the larger points made while trying to at least vaguely catch up with the game. I'm sorry that I haven't been around as often--it'll clear up soon.

I don't know if I want to keep my vote on Obviam or not, considering "being pissed" isn't a legitimate reason to be suspicious of someone, but his behavior has me wary and I don't like it.

Other things I want to point out really quick before I start compiling thoughts--

Manix: I actually thought for a minute there that you were softclaiming bomb.

Just... leave it there. I don't want everyone with an important role to start breadcrumbing them everywhere for no reason. We had this issue last game, please keep claims for desperate situations.

As for Bal, the way he and Prims are going at each other indicates to me that they are not, in fact, on the same team. I can't remember who, but someone suggested they may be scumbuddies? Judging from some of the things Bal said, I really don't think so.

Prims has a tendency to be more aggressive-tunnel when he's scum, at least from the like one or two times I played scum with him, which is giving me vibes.

[Percivalé]

also I still think Ether is town

[Percivalé]

Also curious what Levity's thoughts on Obviam's post are. She feels like a background player.

For the record, both you and Obviam posted while I was sleeping. If I'm not in the thread, I'm probably not online. <___<

And if I'm on the thread but not posting, I'm probably on my phone during class or something.