Stop Crying Psych Minimafia - Night 2

[Percivalé]

(obviam ily I'm sorry ): )

anyway, I'm working on kind of a larger post which will cover a bunch of things and help completely catch me up with everything so far. I guess I just wanted to say that to confirm it, and all.

[Grace]

I don't have much more to say to you, Bal. Look, I'm not claiming anything yet, and there really shouldn't be any reason for me to, ever (in an ideal situation). All I can say is that I really don't think you're the bomb, it's just a feeling. If you are, well, I'll be wrong, and that will be that.

Any questions? I'll answer them as best I can. About anything that I've said, other players, whatever. I just think I need to explain myself more, and my thought processes. Having other's ask me question should be good.

[Helios]

Man I'm too tired to make a good post right now. I'm gonna attempt to go to sleep, wake up tomorrow, and hopefully reread the thread and post my thoughts.

[Prims]

Hey guys we have 8 hours until deadline and some of you fucks aren't even voting what is this ?????

[Balcerzak]

Ether. Do not fucking vanish on us like this. I know you came in, and you had a very nice showing in the opening hours of the day, but we need all the opinions we can get. Don't slide back into your "I don't know what to say so I'm not going to post" habit here. You were making excellent progress.

[Helios]

I'm also wary of Helios, mainly because of this:

[blah Blah Blah]

This is simply flawed. I don't believe scorri has all that much experience anyway, and definitely not the most here. Plus, your "lack of an effective way to persuade people" seems like cover for a bad argument. I want to see what other people think of this, too.

Scorri is more experienced then I am though. I was trying to say that even in the game, I probably don't look like much of a threat anyway, and half the possibilities/theories I have are off anyway. I get that they were going for a safekill, I was just trying to think of some reasoning behind why one would go for Scorri over me, or even someone like Prims, Bal, or Bizz. So yeah.

No I was mostly just insulting everyone else

Nah you just love me and don't want to admit it .

Uh I am pretty sure I was the first person to vote for Helios

Nah you were fashionably late to the party, Bal voted for me first with that lolgic reasoning.

Helios/fuckhead/dumbass/imbecile

I have not been in a position to post on SF for over the past 18 hours

Now this name-calling was just uncalled for man. I apologize for not knowing you well enough to know that you have a life. Just wanted to hear what you had to say about the game WHEN YOU RETURNED, you know, because it's good to get other people's opinions on stuff and all that. Especially one as experienced as you .

Okay this is bullshit because I want to vote for whoever of you is apparently the most stupid and thus full of (mafia) shit, but you're ALL SO TERRIBLE so I'm going to be lazy and pick one of you fucks at random. I will throw Aere into the mix because really, I skimmed this thread, but even so I noticed a lot of the same people posting and Aere wasn't one of them. I think maybe he really did vote and run.

Eeny, meeny, miny, もえ

catch a tiger by the #Vote: Ether I'm onto you you son of a bitch; the reason you don't look suspicious is because you're the only one here who's actually good at this game.

Oh and I should note that I didn't mean to include Prims in that. He's actually playing pretty decent.

If you're all retarded then you're not very threatening anyway, so the odds of saving the town are higher if I vote for someone halfway intelligent. Unfortunately for Ether Prims appears to be more of a townie than him at the moment.

A dumbass with a gun is more threatening then a genius unarmed. Wouldn't it be best to pick who you thought was scummiest, not most threatening. Oh, unless you're scum yourself, and want to kill off a threatening townie. I suppose that makes sense.

Helios voting Obviam over the dude he claimed to find suspicious looks scummy. Voting people to get them to post doesn't really work when they'll do so on their own time. A low post rate on D1 isn't even scummy if you're contributing while you're around, so lynching people for not posting as much as they could be alone is pretty fruitless until D2. I don't see why he couldn't have just voted Aere and been done with it. Prod votes this late into the day are active lurking imo.

Well I honestly forgot that I even unvoted, cuz damn man I was tired as hell, and I figured it would be really stupid to unvote and then vote the same player again. So I figured I might as well pressure-vote someone else, and all Obviam had was that hit-and-run post and I wanted to see if he had some insight on anything else (I didn't know he was busy with RL though) and I don't think he had any votes on him at the time. So yeah, I didn't know he'd post on his own time.

While rereading, I did notice that Prims's joke-vote during N1 actually matched the kill target. Current suspicion is mafia may have tried to frame him, by making it look like a just according to keikaku, but that's weak evidence at best.

Oh wow I completely forgot about that. I suppose that's another factor into the whole "why'd scorri die over anyone else" phenomenon.

There is no gain to letting a mafia member get away with a fake claim. The doctor is only not safe to counterclaim in the setup without the watcher, so he's playing the odds there, but cop and watcher can always safely counterclaim. Suggesting that somebody sit on the identity of confirmed mafia is downright foolhardy, and if you don't know better you should start learning as such. Power-roles don't need scapegoats, they just need other non-claimed power-roles to guard their backs.

The only situation where it would conceivably work out for the best is if a Vanillager fakeclaims, but in NOC the kind of coordination required to pull that off without fucking the whole town over doesn't exist. I've seen it done rarely, with mixed results. When pressed almost always the vanillager recants, they will never press it to a claim test lynch because they fucking know better.

I don't think this was necessarily a scumslip on your part, but you really need to be careful about making patently bad suggestions.

The bold is what I was going for, and I just thought it was a possibility more than anything. I realize it would be difficult, but it could work well if done correctly. I was just trying to look at things at a different angle, and it wasn't a suggestion really, just a possibility like I said.

##Unvote

I got like 6 hours or something to think of a good lynch target. As strange as Obviam was acting, I'm not sure if it was necessarily scummy. I'll reread shit and think of a good case.

[Ether]

Sorry, I had something big come up and I've been too out of it to do anything productive for the last little while. I was hit with it not long after I woke up yesterday and have been unable to be productive. I'd rather not get further into it than that.

Alright, alright. Let's try and get some stuff down. First off, Obviam is being Obviam again, seemingly just goofing around because Day 1, and targeting me because I'm a good player(ahahahahahahaha). I don't really take it as a scumtell so much as an Obviamtell. So we have an obvObviam up in here, guys.

Helios has it down, pretty much. I plain don't understand where Psych's logic was coming from, and if I came off as overly annoyed, it was a "Come on, man!" moment.

Now, the situation with the good Dr. Balcerzak(note I am not insinuating anything, he really is a doctor. Impressive man.) I'm not reading him as scummy at the moment, so much as cautious, which is not uncommon for him regardless of alignment.

Manix seems to have a strange obsession with the bomb. Bal already touched on that to an extent, but really, the less about the bomb there is in the thread, the better chance they have of actually being useful. Please stop talking about the bomb.

Psych is still just grabbing onto one thing, responding to it, and ignoring everything else. I still don't like it.

[Percivalé]

It seems like a lot of people are playing out of character this game. It's kind of unsettling me. Is finals week just kicking the shit out of everyone?

At any rate, I guess I'm just going to

##Unvote: Obviam since it's not going to go anywhere and I was pissed off (even though voting for someone on account of their skill really is a waste of a vote, please don't do that, I don't fucking care if you're 'just being Obviam')

So, I said I was working on a gigantic post and I am; it's just kind of taking a while. We need to decide on who to lynch, though, if we even end up lynching, because the setup doesn't allow a lot of room in the way of mislynches. (I kind of fucked up yesterday by sleeping too much, I'm really sorry)

My list of Levityvibes, as best as I can describe them while reading over the thread, from least scummy to most scummy (color-coordinated!):

Ether

Helios

Manix

Bal

Obviam

Prims

Psych

Aere

I'm going to start with a ##Vote: Aere and try to hurry up and finish the rest of what I was going to have to say. I can, for the most part, explain these on a level that partially makes sense.

[Percivalé]

Starting with Psych, Prims, Ether, and Balcerzak vibes.

I'm not saying that voting is bad, please stop taking my comment out of context. I'm just saying that getting them so fast is a bit suspect. I can forgive Bal for being the first vote and having nothing, but Manix's rubbed me wrong which he then simply waved off by saying it's a joke. I don't feel comfortable about that.

Psych starts with this. For the record, jokevote!phases are entirely common and they're what get D1 started for the most part. I'm not going to go through another argument on why or why not jokevotes are scummy. They can be scummy if completely unwarranted bandwagons pop up, yes, which is why the Helios votes caught me off-guard a little. From previous experience, scum (and new town but whatever) tend to wave off jokevotes as scummy and make a case out of it, and it distracts the town by creating a completely irrelevant argument, and it's akin to the whole "should we or should we not no lynch on D1" which just doesn't really get anything done. And no, he doesn't even let go of it and posts completely irrelevant shit later which I haven't gotten to yet.

Placing the first vote on a person has a specific timeframe? Adding a vote to a torrent of votes for someone, or pushing someone too close to deadline too early, fine, I can understand in certain cirsumstances, but randomvoting too fast? If I want to randomvote someone because I don't have a lead, it doesn't make me more scummy if I do it 5 minutes into a phase than if I do it five hours in, so long as randomvoting hasn't been rendered useless or negative by proceeding actions. Please tell me you are not trying to argue this.

Agreed, and part one of the posts that just make me feel really solid on Ether.

I'm arguing Manix's random joke vote seemed too fast for my tastes, but he has since clarified it, so I'm not going to push it any further, as I feel satisfied. I'm a bit surprised at your reaction though.

"I'm a bit surprised at your reaction though"

This line in particular bothers me. /: Obviam was trying to pull the same "you're trying to make too much out of too little" bullshit on me that really sets me off as sort of a scumtell sometimes.

Bal's was the first vote so I can at least forgive that for being nothing, but Manix's was a joke and he didn't comment on Bal's. I'm fine with Manix's explanation though, but I'm a bit fishy with Ether's reaction.

... Both Bal's and Manix's votes were, more-or-less, just that: votes merely to get the day started, nothing more to really back them up. It's a strange reason to defend Bal over Manix, which I guess was another reason for my earlier scumvibes on Bal.

Further elaboration: Helios is "ED1 scummy" on an initial reaction to the kill target cuz if scum wanted to safekill newer players, he was a better target than scorri. Similarly, Bal just seems like he wouldn't have been watched / docced over me and Levity. I would have tried to shoot him. It's possible scum had a different mindset than I did though so w/e, wouldn't lynch people on this alone once more time has passed. I think it's the most interesting thing rather than Psych being silly and having mixed up values, though.

Bal, is Psych scum? You're poking him a lot but that's not where your vote is.

This entire post in particular gives me mixed feelings, especially the last line. It kind of wouldn't surprise me if Psych and Prims were on a scumteam.

Elaboration on my Helios vote: Initial gut looked at the player list and scorri's death and tried to find someone with motive to see her gone. Together with myself he was on the losing end of scorri's scum brutality in the past game, and I figured that was as good a shitty reason as any to kick things off with.

Sincere, even if I don't agree with reason for voting.

As for Psych, I poked him all of once, as far as I remember, and mostly haven't been considering eliminating him as a serious possibility for the admittedly bad reason of he really really wanted to play a game and wouldn't stop pestering until it happened. After the first few hours settle down, I promise to revisit the notion, but until they do, Psych posts are filed in the lolPsych folder of my brain.

I understand this completely, but if you think a player might be scum, you go for them regardless of who they might be and whether or not they "really wanted to play a game." It kind of reminds me of another recent game I played where a player known to never live past D1 of a game wasn't voted for simply for that reason and he was let off for a while even though people were suspicious of him, and he did end up being scum.

[Paperblade]

(2)Balcerzak: Levity, Prims, Aere, Manix, Manix

(2)Ether: Psych, Obviam

(1)Aere: Helios, Balcerzak, Levity

(1)Psych: Ether

(1)Helios: Balcerzak, Obviam, Prims

(1)Manix: Balcerzak

(0)Prims: Manix

(0)Obviam: Levity, Helios

Not Voting: Aere

tell me if I missed anything

4 hours and 13 minutes left

[Percivalé]

More things:

I don't think Prims and Bal are scumbuddies, and the hastiness of the latter's wagon is one of the reasons why I unvoted him. Manix had him at L-1, Prims pointed it out and he unvoted quickly. This gives me townvibes on Manix, regardless of his latter posts, and he's overall been cooperative save for his more-or-less negative attitude that he demonstrated later. I also haven't seen very much of him as of late (or maybe his more recent posts have been unmemorable--I'm still in the process of re-re-reading more closely); it's true that he didn't really have as much to add after he unvoted Bal, but I still have an overall good feeling about him.

On the other hand, you have my more lethargic games, one of which you just witnessed. I'd reckon I'm one of the harder players to get a meta read on, but maybe that's an unsuited display of overconfidence.

I rely too much on "if Bal seems more withdrawn/docile than usual, increased chance he's scum"

I feel there's a difference between lethargic and hestiant.

Not to mention I can't seriously be the only person who's done anything the slightest bit suspicious. Don't tunnel, make sure you can branch out and observe everyone's actions and reactions.

This is actually what alerts me regarding Prims. The one game I remember playing with him and he was scum, he was more aggressive and tunneling than usual. It just seems odd for him to do. I forgot to grab his post in particular that said something along the lines of a sarcastic "Oh, yeah, I'm voting Bal because I don't want him dead," even though he flipped he shit beforehand regarding his surprise L-1 and then turned around and attacked him again.

Much appreciated moment of sanity here.

Only because you got dangerously close to a lynch, though...

Anyway, as for Manix, I think the one thing I can understand that is a still strange is his apathetic "I don't care if I die" coupled with his "I'll claim if I have to," which is mixed signals for the most part and I really hope he isn't a PR doing the same thing he accused Bal of doing not very long ago. /: And it also does send me some scumvibes on his part, since people are going to notice what you're posting and mafia can react to that any way they want to, unless he's scum posting breadcrumbs to make a fakeclaim easier later.

This basically puts a big "kill me mafia!" sign on you by saying this.

I agree with this, though. Not really going to say anything else.

Anyway, moving onto Aere in a second

my friend just called me so it set me back a bit

[Percivalé]

... god fucking dammit, I was posting something else and my internet blipped and I lost it.

qq

[Percivalé]

Okay, basically my post in a nutshell (because I don't feel like typing the whole thing again):

Reading over page six more carefully is making me want to revise my vibeslist a bit, specifically to fit Manix. He keeps jumping back and forth and being indecisive, whether it be in his "I could claim" vs. "I don't care if I die," and now his "Bal could be claiming something important" to "I don't care if he's at L-1 anymore, he should die!" I can't decide whether or not I want to read this as more of a scumtell

than Aere's "whoops, Bal softclaimed a power role" and hopping off of the wagon as hastily as he hopped on, yet still adding the token "but I'm still suspicious of you !!" I don't know if I'm just being paranoid, but it's making me think that Bal indeed faltered a little and is a power role, and Aere didn't want to be on his wagon in case he got lynched or something.

Either way, I think Bal made an honest mistake. Some of the things he's said have been a little strange for him to say, I don't really know, maybe I'm reading his posts differently than usual.

What sucks though is that I don't think Aere is going to be here for deadline.

[Percivalé]

... psych was just here and didn't say anything.

I still don't think we should lynch Bal ):

[Balcerzak]

Bizz is rapidly climbing the protown ladder. Your insights are greatly appreciated, and I am starting to consider Prims in a slightly different light. The only game I've ever seen scum!Prims in was PYP, as the mafia "doctor", where he did initially start off protown, and only really seemed scummy a good half-dozen days in. Sadly, I really don't have the luxury of waiting that long to see if he falls into bad habits well on down the line.

I will go back now, and take a hard look at Psych, who as I said, I mostly disregarded.

[Percivalé]

Ether

Helios

Bal

Manix

Obviam

Prims

Psych

Aere

Bal is above Manix now. I think that works better.

Also hi Bal <3

I actually have to leave for an hour or so, I'll try to be back as soon as I can.

[Balcerzak]

I found something that I think is interesting, though I have not yet fully finalized an opinion on it yet. I submit the following

It's not OMGUS if you pulled it first when you complained about me. Second of all, just because I was L-4 doesn't mean I'm not an easy lynch, and you know that.

You've also brought up the point I wanted to make. It's very possible Prims is Bal's scum buddy and he tried to get the wagon off of him. That seems most likely in my mind. He didn't want Bal lynched, possibly revealing the set up to us so early. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't bode well for the mafia.

It's also possible you're their third buddy, and you'll pulling this in order to have a different voice compared to them and making yourself seem safer. That's another reason I voted for you.

The fact you only want to bring this up as trivial shows me you're not putting a lot of thought into something that is pretty serious and highly possible. My vote stays, regardless of OMGUS or not.

Firstly, while there can indeed be valid reasons to vote somebody who has previously or is currently voting you without making in an OMGUS, the way Psych explains things here doesn't properly dismiss the suspicion. First, Ether's initial vote, by definition, cannot be OMGUS, as Psych, you never voted Ether previously. Not only that, but prior to his vote, you never said anything regarding Ether whatsoever. Ether didn't "pull" anything. It's true, that you often are an easy lynch target, and in the past you often behave wildly unpredictably, and troll your own team, so if those were indeed motives behind his vote they would not be the most honorable ones. However, his purported and defended reason was your attempt to stifle discussion at the beginning of the day, and an uneven handling of the different votes in RVS. Now, for what it's worth, in a standalone environment, I could easily see your initially handling of the situation being an innocent mistake, landing you in a web of suspicion in a similar manner to how I got myself in my current predicament. However, nobody but Ether has actually done much of anything in the way of prosecuting you, and your over-reaction to a tiny situation is handling things poorly. Compare and contrast in that, though perhaps I did overreact myself, that was after having nearly been hammer. Not at one vote.

Let's move on though, as that isn't even the worst part about this post. The worst part is where you maintain the belief that Ether, Prims, and I are all scum. Yet... rather than vote for potential mafia with an established suspicion, you instead branch out into virgin territory because Ether specifically has wounded you. At that point, barring mistakes, I was back down to having only 2 votes, so you easily could have added your own to keep the pressure on. Yet instead you did something bizarre and hard to explain. It's poor play practice in general, unless you have some other reason that clearly speaks to you that the person you vote is the most scummy, and you believe you can convince the others. However, the way you word it here it seems like you believe Prims and I to be higher on the ladder, with the Ether suggestion seeming like a tangent just thrown on.

Can you explain what exactly you were thinking here?

[Aleph]

Wouldn't it be best to pick who you thought was scummiest, not most threatening.

uh since a few (read: all) of you haven't actually read my post

I think MOST of you are scummy. I can't pick a "scummiest" that's 5 fucking people. I only get one vote.

So I picked the odd man out, because all the headless chickens might be acting that way for a reason, and they can't all be mafia.

some things

- I feel like Balcerzak is either really town or really good. Helios is sort of posting like him too though and I don't get the same feeling from him. I won't try to understand why because my gut usually knows more than me about this sort of thing.

- Ether your modesty is not scummy in the slightest, nope not even a bit. A legitimate townie totally wouldn't have better things to do than constantly assure everyone they aren't any good...(read: any dangerous).

- Nice rainbow bizz

Obviam was trying to pull the same "you're trying to make too much out of too little" bullshit on me that really sets me off as sort of a scumtell sometimes.

it's a common scumtell and I've pinned people for it countless times sooooooo

[stuff about Manix]

The kid irks me too, honestly, but are we sure he's not just an idiot?

Also bal and bizz for scumpals

(I'm sort of kidding I would hope it's not that obvious

but I wouldn't put it past bal to try a reverse psychology thing)

Finally, I'm glad it's still Day 1. I actually got to play more this phase than I thought (I think the rules said 48 hour phases, but for me 48 hours goes by fast so it could have gone by without me noticing). Unfortunately it also means people have been giving me hell for not being active for no fucking reason oh but we knew that already DIDN'T WE BRAD.

[Helios]

##Vote: Psych

Caught lurking a few times without posting anything, strange reactions to the jokevotes early in the game, not so great argument against Ether, responding to only one little part of Obviam's wall of text with a joke and then disappearing, not doing any scumhunting whatsoever other than his argument with Ether, he'd probably be forgotten if people didn't occasionally mention him, and some other lolgic are all reasons why I think he's scummy. And I'm probably missing a bunch of stuff but whatever I got shit I need to do right now so yeah.

Ether, Bizz, and Bal are looking pretty towny to me right now. Everyone else is either neutral or slightly scummy, with Psych looking a bit scummier than Aere right now.

Oh and I don't think Bal should be lynched, he hasn't done enough to deserve a lynch and has been making sense and helping out.

[Prims]

Levity: Well even if I think Bal's scum I don't want him hammered in the middle of the day. That'd be disastrous.

We need to start consolidating on wagons. I'm curious who people are interested in lynching aside from the dude they're voting, since the largest wagon right now is at two votes.

My preferred lynches are Bal > Helios > Aere.

Don't have time to make an in-depth post, blargh. Might still be busy at deadline too. Sorry.

[Balcerzak]

In the interest of consolidating wagons, my top picks are:

Manix > Aere > Psych.

I'm not going to make a rainbow and sort the whole crowd, because we need to take this one at a time, and depending on flips we may gain strong associative tells one way or the other.

[Ether]

Wagons, huh? I guess if I had to put up a top 3, I would say Psych > Manix > Obviam

[Aere]

than Aere's "whoops, Bal softclaimed a power role" and hopping off of the wagon as hastily as he hopped on, yet still adding the token "but I'm still suspicious of you !!" I don't know if I'm just being paranoid, but it's making me think that Bal indeed faltered a little and is a power role, and Aere didn't want to be on his wagon in case he got lynched or something.

Either way, I think Bal made an honest mistake. Some of the things he's said have been a little strange for him to say, I don't really know, maybe I'm reading his posts differently than usual.

What sucks though is that I don't think Aere is going to be here for deadline.

Scuse me, I have every intention of being here until deadline. Nothing stopping me. I plan on voting, too.

I haven't hopped off that wagon, and I think I was the only one who even really gave it thought in the first place. I felt the same way, that Bal is a power role, but that's why I don't want to lynch him! If he is a power role, I don't want to lynch him. That's why I hopped off: I didn't want him to get lynched, and have us lose a power role, but I'm not entirely convinced he IS a power role.

Case 1: Bal is a townie power role, and either proves it/gets killed by mafia during the night. If the mafia feels the same way I do, I think he'll get killed. Hell, if Bal is town, and even HINTED at being a power role, I'd think mafia would want to take him out.

Case 2: Bal is townie vanilla. I just don't believe this one, mainly because of his explanation for his power-claim.

Case 3: Bal is mafia. I feel like this is unlikely, but...

Anyway, why did you vote for me @Levity? I'll do more explaining if I'm asked, I guess.

[Prims]

Aere why are you not voting with less than 2 hours until deadline.

Waiting until the last minute to vote is opportunistic and scummy, seriously.

[Aere]

Oh shit there are two hours? My bad, I thought I had until 10:30 (3 hours and 10 minutes form now)