Blitz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Kay wasn't exactly scummy all day, her vote on Pride was scummy (because of the reasoning given) I would have unvoted her after she claimed, but I couldn't get online (cause I don't have a net connection) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 sigh. Far out the logic is making my head spin. Not to mention I have to keep breaking my vow of silence to fix the logic. Marth, a tie is a NL. Which has been clearly explained to be a horrible idea. Just be glad we even got a bloody lynch out! You very clearly attempted to force the NL, which is quite possibly the worst move a townie could even do. Besides, single target lightning rod is not nearly as strong as Kay's role, nor BBM's. A townie would probably have accepted that and dealt with it. Which you clearly didn't. Was Kay scummy at all during D1? A little bit, but not nearly enough to go "hurr durr, let's force a tie and NL". Don't push your luck. I also agree with Haze that a theoretical vig should shoot Marth in the face. also, I'm lifting my self-imposed vow of silence because apparently, I have to talk. However in this situation no-lynch could have been sensible. For starters we could assess the vote patterns and get an idea who's scum(and yeah it works against me this game). And yes it may not help 'as much' as a lynch which confirms alignment, but at least we don't lose an extra townie. I'm not saying we should no-lynch, but I do think we've got quite the bit of info. Anyway, I want to save myself, sorry, I'm not the type who goes 'hey I can't play this game anymore lynch me' especially when I know I'm being lynched for stupid reasons. I'm sorry, but when Paper thought Kay's role was fake, I thought of voting for her. Because voting for BBM would be stupid, and voting for a person who's claim isn't that believable is better. I don't understand your logic. If someone is scummy why would I force a tie? Wouldn't I want to lynch that person? You say Kay was scummy a bit in the day, wouldn't I want to lynch her then based off of that reasoning? Also while I understand that Haze is probably pissed with me and stuff, you're supporting a vig shot on me too? Let's say the vig has limited shots, and I've already claimed a town role. I flip town, there, vig wasted his shot. Nice idea, isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 WAIT NO LYNCH ISA NEVER A BETTER IDEA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 nononononononononononono you're missing the point. D1, there shouldn't be a NL. TOWN DOES NOT GET INFORMATION OFF A NL. It does not matter whether you get to keep an additional townie, because you're also missing the chance of lynching scum D1 (which is rare, but possible), in addition to the information. 1 townie =/= information to allow town to find scum. Also, having more townies alive means more chance of the mafia being able to fit in, and it becomes harder to narrow down who the mafia are. "Townies should not be afraid to die if it will help town win the game." I can't remember who said that to me, or whether I'm actually quoting it exactly, but whatev. It's a perfectly valid point. This isn't necessarily a case of "I don't want to play this game anymore", it's a case of "this might give town a better chance to win". There's a difference. wrt to Kay's scumminess: Guess what? It definitely wasn't as bad as some other people throughout the day, and she claimed a role that could have helped town quite a bit, and wasn't completely OP as Paper mistakenly thought (which also, I accept his interpretation of the role as well). Now she's flipped town, and since you wanted her gone, there is ample reason to suspect you. wrt to vig shot: Haze, could you quote your entire role PM to confirm if you have that ability? And besides, if you (Marth) flip town from the vig shot, chances are is that Haze is fakeclaiming and we can lynch him anyway. Town wins, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I agree with the others. The price of a lynch that gets us information sometimes has to be a townie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 nononononononononononono you're missing the point. D1, there shouldn't be a NL. TOWN DOES NOT GET INFORMATION OFF A NL. It does not matter whether you get to keep an additional townie, because you're also missing the chance of lynching scum D1 (which is rare, but possible), in addition to the information. 1 townie =/= information to allow town to find scum. Also, having more townies alive means more chance of the mafia being able to fit in, and it becomes harder to narrow down who the mafia are. "Townies should not be afraid to die if it will help town win the game." I can't remember who said that to me, or whether I'm actually quoting it exactly, but whatev. It's a perfectly valid point. This isn't necessarily a case of "I don't want to play this game anymore", it's a case of "this might give town a better chance to win". There's a difference. wrt to Kay's scumminess: Guess what? It definitely wasn't as bad as some other people throughout the day, and she claimed a role that could have helped town quite a bit, and wasn't completely OP as Paper mistakenly thought (which also, I accept his interpretation of the role as well). Now she's flipped town, and since you wanted her gone, there is ample reason to suspect you. wrt to vig shot: Haze, could you quote your entire role PM to confirm if you have that ability? And besides, if you (Marth) flip town from the vig shot, chances are is that Haze is fakeclaiming and we can lynch him anyway. Town wins, period. 1. Then you should be happy Kay died. We got some info. Why do you care whether its me or Kay? Also yes, lynching D1 scum is indeed rare, and you got lots of info: you got 3 claims, for starters, what's your point? Scratch 3, we got 4 claims. Even if there was a lynch, which would confirm our roles, you get no more info. 2. My death wouldn't help town 'win the game' sorry. 3.No I didn't want Kay gone at all. I had been pressure voting her all of D1 sorry, I didn't want her gone. In fact my last post clearly stated I didn't want to lynch Kay/BBM. Its not my fault Iris decided to unvote to get someone lynched. 4. And what if Haze is in fact not fakeclaiming? That would be 3 tow deaths in a row, yeah, how wonderful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Dear Haze, you are Ciel You are Elesia, formerly the 17th host body of The Infinite Reincarnater Roa and currently the 7th member of the Burial Agency. The world itself refuses to allow you to die, a paradox remaining from the peculiarities of your involvement with Roa. As such you possess flawless defenses, and opponents who engage you quickly find themselves hopelessly outmatched, nothing but death awaiting them. Once per game, during the night, you may reply "Night X - Activating the Seventh Holy Scripture". Armed with your ultimate conceptual weapon, everybody performing an action that night will view an engagement with you as of the utmost importance, and they will all converge on your location, choosing you as their target. The expenditure of power will make you vulnerable, however, and the sheer volume of targets will be more than enough to overwhelm your defenses. You are allied with the Town. You win if all all threats to the Town are eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 btw if we're going to use the "This guy's role is too similar to mine he is scum" then wouldn't a bomb and a PGO be awfully similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You clearly tried to tie to force the NL. That's really the part that's getting me the most. Iris unvoting to get a lynch is fine, I just would have prefered it not to have been Kay, because her role was better than the one you claimed. Lightning Rod is only as useful as the predicts allow, and, because of my role as well, I really don't think that the LR claim is too great either. I just needed something else to do with. Although, on that note, the mass LR actually makes more sense than single LR, for reasons that will remain unknown to everyone else until an appropriate time. Death is part of this game Marth, do you not see? I for one would happily die if it meant the town would be able to get a mafia with it. Trading 1 town for 1 mafia is a very good trade. If you didn't want them lynched, then why did you vote for her that late in the phase? By that point, you should be voting exactly who you want lynched, not the other way around. If you had kept your vote on me, it wouldn't look so bad. The thing is with Haze, is that he's claiming a role that is an upgraded version of yours. Generally, there isn't two of the same role in the game, and particularly of the same alignment. That's why we should get at least one mafia out of it. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 also, ty Haze and Paper, I guess maybe, but a question: Has there ever been a game with bomb and PGO in it? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Haze claimed to be the vig too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Haze claimed mass lightning rod. Which I think is more possible than single LR right now. But I can't tell you why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I am so confused, I am gonna shut up now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I'd also be happy to prove that mass lightningrod, and hopefully clear myself in the progress while not dying, should you so desire. In before tailors and hitmen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Sure, why not. But on that note, I will have to idle tonight, because otherwise it won't work as intended. I was going to idle anyway, but hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawman Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The heck. So Haze, you can draw everyone to you, but wouldn't that kill all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It says that it deactivates the PGO part of his role. So no, it wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 also, ty Haze and Paper, I guess maybe, but a question: Has there ever been a game with bomb and PGO in it? Just curious. My issue is that both are roles that the mafia cannot profitably nightkill. A 1-1 trade (bomb) is terrible for the mafia and suiciding into a PGO is just dumb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 ... Sigh. Sigh, If we have a vig, fucking shoot Marth in the face. I really doubt we have that role since I have a secondary ability to turn off my PGO and force everyone to target me. Once per game, during the night, you may reply "Night X - Activating the Seventh Holy Scripture". Armed with your ultimate conceptual weapon, everybody performing an action that night will view an engagement with you as of the utmost importance, and they will all converge on your location, choosing you as their target. The expenditure of power will make you vulnerable, however, and the sheer volume of targets will be more than enough to overwhelm your defenses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 You clearly tried to tie to force the NL. That's really the part that's getting me the most. Iris unvoting to get a lynch is fine, I just would have prefered it not to have been Kay, because her role was better than the one you claimed. Lightning Rod is only as useful as the predicts allow, and, because of my role as well, I really don't think that the LR claim is too great either. I just needed something else to do with. Although, on that note, the mass LR actually makes more sense than single LR, for reasons that will remain unknown to everyone else until an appropriate time. Death is part of this game Marth, do you not see? I for one would happily die if it meant the town would be able to get a mafia with it. Trading 1 town for 1 mafia is a very good trade. If you didn't want them lynched, then why did you vote for her that late in the phase? By that point, you should be voting exactly who you want lynched, not the other way around. If you had kept your vote on me, it wouldn't look so bad. The thing is with Haze, is that he's claiming a role that is an upgraded version of yours. Generally, there isn't two of the same role in the game, and particularly of the same alignment. That's why we should get at least one mafia out of it. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall Except that I thought that a tie would result in a random lynch between Kay and I, and since Paper said Kay looked suspicious, I thought "If I'm gonna get lynched anyway, let's hope that I get someone who could be fakeclaiming down as well.". Thinking back, now that I know its an NL, I don't really think it was that bad. That's what I'm trying to say. I see your emphasis on better- so what? You still got info, right? Except it doesn't guarantee a 1 for 1 trade at all. For example, tell me how me dying shows you who the mafia are? Unless I'm an oracle, that won't happen. Yes death is part of the game, but its also my job to get lynches off me right? I agree the way I played in SG mafia was stupid, but don't expect me to roll over and die during day phases. I voted her that late in the phase because, I dunno, Paper said she could be fakeclaiming? And that if I had kept my vote on you, I'd be lynched anyway? Why would I care about how I look when I'm gonna die that phase anyway? And since BBM's claim seemed legit, I didn't bother to vote BBM? Haze's role isn't exactly an upgraded variant either. If anything, its like a mass roleblock(if we have a doc in the setup) which basically spoils the night, unless the roles have a higher priority than that. Also, its only a one-shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 It's a mass roleblock on all active actions if and only if a theoretical safeguard is active that night. A town safeguard shouldn't screw it up because then it doesn't clear Haze. Alternatively, we see if every active role claims blocked. Which is the worse option, because it tells mafia who has an active role. Which would be the plan of attack of a mafia safeguard. ie: town!SG should idle, maf!SG would be active Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 are you claiming SG this time Manix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haze Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 Well look, I'm willing to use that ability, but my odds of survival are probably in the gutter if I do. I'll leave it up to the rest of you to decide, for now, I'm off, good night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I have nothing to say actually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 I guess you could make that assumption... but I was merely explaining a possible scenario. It's just that would be the possibility that would hinder the proof of the role. That's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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