Rate the Unit: Day 42 - Rofl

[Sasori]

Rolf has some good bases for a level 1, but compared to the rest of the team he's lagging behind a bit. He isn't extremely difficult to train, but well Shinon is there and he'll be better for a looooong time.

Still his chip damage isn't the worst and with that massive strenght growth he will be good after some chapters.

5/10

[MacLovin]

Too many people voting on NM experience.

PEMN.

Rolf being the 2nd best bowman in the game doesn't mean a thing when all the Bow Users, Bar Shinon, are craptastic.

Shinon is just TOOO good.

WTFBases and Growths.

[Excellen Browning]

It's why I decided to apply -1 bias to my vote and I recommend everyone who is sane to do the same.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Rolf isn't as terrible in this game as he was in FE9, but that's not saying much when you use lolbows.

Good for chip damage and good when raised, but raising him is the problem.

2.5/10

[Starwave]

Rofl.

He's a low leveled sniper with weak bases(though to be fair, its because he joins at level 1 wtf) and has to compete with Shinon. Competition on the GMs are bad enough, but the team only needs 1 sniper and he's losing to Shinon every time. There's simply no reason to raise Rolf when Shinon IS RIGHT THERE FROM THE START (unless you really like him). His strength growth is outrageous, but you really need to need to feed him kills to let him grow into a strong fighter since his bases suck ass (and besides, Shinon's growths are even better. He doesn't need that overkill strength growth and his ends up capping most of his stats anyway. Snipers need to be fast with high skill, STR isn't that much of a priority tbh).

3/10 -0.5

2.5/10

Edited June 13, 2012 by Starwave

[aku chi]

I think I would rather have Def than HP anyways and Shinon wins there.

Shinon also leads Rolf in Res and HP in every realistic scenario (where the two are given similar resources).

Strength would be Rolf's only saving grace in hard mode, so long as you take the time to raise it.

A big "if". And with Shinon being able to Bexp slowplay for Str in tier 2, it takes a long while for Rolf to get any Str advantage over Shinon (if he gets one at all).

One thing that is kind of cool is how close the bases appear between the two archers although I believe they are at least 10 levels apart.

Shinon leads Rolf by 4 Str, 5 Spd, and 7 Def. That is not close. Especially when that 5 Spd is the difference between doubling nothing and doubling everything but Swordmasters.

Rolf is a solid unit in anything but hard mode, which doesn't matter at all for the purpose of this discussion.

Dat Rules (borrowed/stolen from Integrity)

- Ratings are assumed to be on Hard Mode (JP Maniac). And only hard mode!

[Exiledwolf]

Rolf comes as a level 1 sniper. While normally this is good in order to train him, in hard mode he falters and is overshadowed by Shinon. He has semi bad bases and his growths are really good. But he has no time to grow, sucking away exp from other good people. All in all, he should most likely be a benchwarmer, only needing chip damage and blocking and ballistae in 3-P and 3-5

2/10 + 0.5 bias = 2.5/10

[Quirino]

Rolf's bases are okay, his growths are great. But his downside is that Shinon is available at the same time as him, plus he's bowlocked. To me, there's no reason to use him over Shinon. He may become a bit better, but it takes a lot more effort to get him there while there's other units who can use the experience much better. Besides, Shinon's speed is way better and I always prefer fast units.

So I give him 3/10, no bias.

[Ema Skye]

I came into this thread hoping I could find some shining example of how great Rolf is at being Rolf, however the more I look at the numbers the worse it seems. Oh and this is my first time participating in an FE debate in quite a few years so don't kill me if I don't follow a standard :)

Growths

Rolf/Shinon

HP: 85/50

Str: 75/40

Mag: 10/15

Skl: 45/70

Spd: 45/65

Lck: 35/30

Def: 35/45

Res: 20/20

Base

Rolf/Shinon

HP: 32/43

Str: 17/21

Mag: 3/7

Skl: 20/28

Spd: 19/24

Lck: 13/15

Def: 13/20

Res: 9/14

Someone like me would just baby Rolf enough to make that 75 strength growth matter, however most won't and shouldn't need to. Snipers and Marksmen should ideally be used for their crit and speed ratings to ensure any well-planned attack will land you a kill. In this department Rolf is simply average, and that's what kills it for me in hard mode. Even with the class bonus to critical hits it still doesn't seem like enough unless you get perfect growths. With Shinon topping both speed and skill you eliminate any need for Rolf in this stage of the game. High HP looks nice but if you're allowing your ranged units to take hits in the first place there is a problem. I guess it's nice that in the situation that Rolf is cornered he might survive.. well.. one attack? I think I would rather have Def than HP anyways and Shinon wins there. Strength would be Rolf's only saving grace in hard mode, so long as you take the time to raise it. One thing that is kind of cool is how close the bases appear between the two archers although I believe they are at least 10 levels apart. It's not that Rolf is a horrible unit, it's just that Shinon outclasses him in all the stats that matter to a Marksman other than strength. Rolf is a solid unit in anything but hard mode, which doesn't matter at all for the purpose of this discussion.

5/10

Uhh, ratings assume and require hard mode, so I'm gonna ask you to do this again.

That why I say "Your call, Lucina".

This is his/her topic, so it's his/her call to decide, I'm just a voter.

4.0 or 7.0 whichever is fine by me, I just say my reason.

If Lucina see I'm violate the rule than it's 7.0.

If he/she think my reason is reasonable than it's 4.0.

Or if he/she see my vote is not worth taking, he/she can ignore my vote completely.

yup , 7.0 is maybe a little too high for Rolf standard, but I will give him this rating "If Shinon is not exit in this game" mind set.

7.0 is fine for best bow unit in the game.

No need to apologise, my friend.

This is internet, where we can only use text to communicate and misunderstood is a very common things.

Taking of 3 points just for "not being Shinon" is violating the "Not X" rule, so I will not accept it. But if you can justify your seven (which you need to do since your score much higher than everyone else's), then I'll take the 7.

[PKL]

Decent bases for his level though underleveled. He can be solid once he gets going, but in HM that takes a looong time. I once did an HM LTC playthrough with him around and didnt lose any turns because of him and got him to promote. So he doesnt require THAT much babying. Its just that shinon exists and he is completely overshadowed by Shinon. I remember that in my first playthrough, I thought that Silencer was PRF for rolf haha. But now I know a lot better. 4/10 +1 bias 5/10

Edited June 13, 2012 by Professor PicKLe

[Colonel M]

No enemy phase with bad bases and a slow leveling speed. Pretty much the definition of bad, but you really can do worse than him.

3/10

3.5/10, though. No bias.

[Shotguner159]

Rolf is a LOT better than he was in PoR, but you're still never going to use him unless you absolutely have to. Using a Steel Bow he has 27 attack at base, and isn't doubling anything with 19AS. He's 3HKOing Fire Sages, and they 2HKOs him. Sure he has an amazing STR growth, but a 45% SPD growth means he's hardly ever going to double. Assuming he grows a level each map, he's going to be -/6 at 3-4, and 21 speed means he just doubles the Thunder Sage and not anything else. You can't even BEXP him to up his Speed as he's just as likely to grow in SKL as well.

1.5/10

[frat_tastic]

I agree, that's pretty nice, but since crossbows suck so much and the Double Bow's not available until endgame...

This screenshot details snipers' woes well.

What game is this?

[Shadow Mir]

What game is this?

The screenshot? It's from a strategy game called Yggdra Union. It has some mechanics that FE does.

Edited June 13, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Fizdiz]

Uhh, ratings assume and require hard mode, so I'm gonna ask you to do this again.

Yeah I said it doesn't matter that Rolf would be useful in any mode but hard because we aren't debating his use in the other modes.

[Ema Skye]

Oh, whoops. I didn't understand what you were saying.

So never mind redoing it.

[eclipse]

3/10? Does it work if I say nothing? All ratings need a justification, not just stuff that falls in then norm.

Anyway. . .his uses are limited to ballista duty on 3-P, losing an item on 3-1, and getting a Silencer later on. He has doubling problems and inferior bases, and Rolf's Bow isn't gonna save him. However, ballista duty on 3-P is more than what several other people can do. If you absolutely need another Sniper for the route split, he's better than Leo/Astrid.

3/10

[Loki Laufeyson]

Rolf, Boyd and Oscar's brother. Studies archery with Shinon.

Pros:

Dat strength growth.

Bases arent horribad for his level.

Cons:

Base level is too low.

Competes with Shinon.

Rolf decided he was done with sucking the big wanky and decided to man up a bit in the 3 years between PoR and this game. Sadly, the developers decided that level 1 was a good thing. lol. He is really take him or leave him. Despite having really nice growths (dat strength growth! holy crap!), Rolf's low level makes people go "....da fuck..." Especially since we get Shinon at the same time and hes like 11 levels ahead or some junk. So its up to the player to go "Shinon or Rolf?" but most players are gonna pick Shinon because base level is much higher. Especially in hard mode. Rolf's bases arent awful for level 1 but not amazing. He can level rather quickly but unless you arent using Shinon at all, he will have a bear of a time catching up. Marksman is a pretty cool class because 3 range. Omg. Thats awesome. Getting Rolf at that point...not as awesome. When leveled and promoted, Rolf can match Shinon (and his strength can be higher). But Rolf's defense is never that great. Shinon has him beat there. Rolf gets his own bow but its not great. Its a little critty but thats about it. Silencer is pretty nice on him though but again...hes competing for that until the second one comes around...

Overall, Rolf isnt awful at all but in Hard Mode, Shinon is gonna win out.

3/10. 3.5/10 bias because i like him in this game. His voice actor needs to be drawn and quartered though. Makes me really glad we never hear Soren's voice. Wtf is up with the bad voice acting?

Edited June 13, 2012 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Jimmy_Smith]

Uhh, ratings assume and require hard mode, so I'm gonna ask you to do this again.

Taking of 3 points just for "not being Shinon" is violating the "Not X" rule, so I will not accept it. But if you can justify your seven (which you need to do since your score much higher than everyone else's), then I'll take the 7.

Nevermind, Lucina.

I know my rating is too much stray from the mean, so it's reasonable to ignore it to avoid the screw in final rating.

[PuffPuff]

He's okay, but really to get going in Hard Mode, he needs the Killer Bow, and possibly Adept. He's not a bad unit, it's just that Shinon does his job with less resources.

4/10

[Yarhar]

He's okay, but really to get going in Hard Mode, he needs the Killer Bow, and possibly Adept. He's not a bad unit, it's just that Shinon does his job with less resources.

4/10

^This but with -1 bias because his voice is annoying.

3/10

[Ema Skye]

tallying

[going2killu]

So I just found this site for the first time, and saw this thread, and felt obligated to make an account just to set a few things straight. I've played this game quite a bit on hard mode, so bear with me.

It seems to have been accepted as fact that shinon outclasses rolf. I seriously don't see it, though. Shinon is marginally faster than rolf at best, and considering on average they both cap spd (pretty easily), it seems rather moot. I've never played a hard mode run seriously in which I failed to get any non-laguz characters in my endgame party to level 20.

I also just want to point out that on average, when rolf reaches the same level that shinon starts at, he is faster than shinon (level 13 sniper). In fact, with the lone exception of level 15 sniper, shinon doesn't actually overtake rolf in spd until after the class change, and even then it only lasts until rolf also caps spd.

Obviously all characters are subject to RNG, and Rolf can suffer from bad RNG for spd (and is more likely to than shinon). However, investing time to train him reveals this pretty quickly. If he doesn't cap spd by level 20 sniper, or seems off pace to do so, I can see setting him aside for shinon to take over. However, with capped spd going into the class change, Rolf has a 95% chance to also cap his spd as a marksman (this is the actual number, I didn't just make it up).

Not to mention that shinon's growth rates in hp and str are barely half that of rolf's, so shinon is hugely subject to the RNG gods in this respect.

Shinon is a full 3 points weaker (in str) than rolf on average at max level. That's nothing to scoff at. The only stats shinon really ends up outshining rolf in are def, res and skill (which is still nearly capped on average for rolf). Given that Rolf has better luck than Shinon (enough to make up for the 1-2 points he might end up being short of max skill), the skill difference is negligible. Regarding def and res, maybe it's just me, but I am not in the habit of letting archers take a beating from powerful units on a regular basis, so I don't see how rolf being slightly more fragile than shinon could possibly justify him being rated so much worse than him.

One last thing. The idea that bows in this game are bad is laughable given the ridiculous power of the double bow. Having multiple archers on the same team is probably not a great idea, but the very existence of the double bow makes not having one a severe disadvantage.

Overall, if a rating is to be based on a character's viablility or the extent to which they are worth training, I don't see how it's possible to say rolf is "outclassed" by shinon when it is generally the case that rolf is able to put out significantly more damage output. The only realistic argument against at least training Rolf to check for bad RNG is that he is more or less a glass cannon. That having been said, he is an archer, so to me, that's to be expected.

There are a few other characters that seem to be generally misrepresented by this community (nephenee and edward, for starters), but I'll wait to address those at another time.

Edited November 10, 2015 by going2killu

[Ϲharlie]

This topic has been dead for three years. Please don't post in threads that have been inactive for a month. Thanks.