ok i wanna know cuz im curious..

[thunderstrife]

It's definitely a matter of preference. Personally, I haven't played the game yet, but I can't imagine it surpassing my reverence for FE5 which I thought was amazing (mostly because it presented a challenge without resorting to hard modes which essentially just juiced up enemy stats - yawn). That said, I felt that FE7 and FE8 were pretty weak titles (of the GBA I liked FE6 far about those 2), I felt they were pretty barren mechanics wise and the chapters felt very repetitive (with some exceptions).

I can empathize a bit on re-classing. I feel like even branched promotions tend to create blatant biases in class choices - in fact, I think it has yet to be balanced in any of the games where it has been tried. It also tends to eat away at unit's individuality if you play for story/characters at all. I can also say that this game *SEEMS* like FE8 where pretty much all the characters are good (to an extent), which I suppose can be taken either way. Personally, as far as uniqueness goes by unit, I would have LOVED to see personalized states and Prf weapons rather than only class-assigned units.

I would definitely have to disagree with your friend about melee/magic mix units. I think they are the most fun and interesting units to incorporate into your army - it opens up a little more strategy (e.g. a swordmaster is obviously just interested in strength, whereas a mage knight/etc might excel at one or the other, or both, and be valuable to the player in a different way).

[CrashGordon94]

Even one of the big name RPGs such as Final Fantasy I bet. (Having Melee/Magic hybrid units are practically a requirement in FFs 5 & 7 for instance if I recall correctly.)

7 yes, from what I've heard everyone's a "melee" character by default but you can teach everyone Magic.

5 no, there are classes like that and you can make builds like that but you can also have "pure" mages.

[Dark Nocturne]

to answer, no she hasnt played any FE game before 7. i feel she has kinda old fashioned views of rpg, like she like pure mages, pure healers and then melee units. she also complained that there is no bishop class and that the sage in this game is pretty much a bishop(which i kind of agree on, the sage class is a bishop sage mix so the sorceror could be the offensive mage, tho i dont think its a bad thing) she tried nightmare mode and said its impossible to beat.. meh i guess i gotta live with a friend who doesnt like the best game ever.... she said itd be ten times better if they used the same graphics as 6-7 to that i said she was insane

[Polaris]

Welp. At least she doesn't think it's too easy any more :V

[Westbrick]

Your friend implying this game's plot is "too dark" I find rather enticing. And though I don't understand Japanese, all the crossovers / boob references / hook-ups made this seem like a relatively light story, at least on the surface. Is it really that dark?

[dondon151]

While I can see there might be the occasional complaint, the objectionable content in FE11/12 reclassing was completely obliterated in FE13.

i'm sorry, but FE12 reclassing was infinitely better than FE13 reclassing.

[Only My Unit]

The objectionable content was that anyone could be anything. It's less broken now.

[Westbrick]

i'm sorry, but FE12 reclassing was infinitely better than FE13 reclassing.

Seeing as FE13's promotion system is absolutely perfect, I'd love to hear a more detailed argument for this.

[Othin]

i'm sorry, but FE12 reclassing was infinitely better than FE13 reclassing.

Starting class mattering > Starting class not mattering

And then FE13 goes on to have even more than the character's starting class matter with their unique class sets, or variable class sets in the case of the children, creating a flexible and potentially modifiable branched multi-tier system.

Furthermore, the implementation of skills demonstrates thoroughly that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Thor Odinson]

The supports in FE13 are arguably worse imo in terms of the dialogue because it blatantly panders to fans of shitty anime tropes and conventions, while the GBA trilogy doesn't do that so much. For example compare Igrene's supports where it goes into the loss of her child and her marriage to Tiamo mentioning for absolutely no reason how she feels sensitive about having small breasts.

I've noticed that Awakening supports are fairly split in terms of quality, myself. Some like you said, fit more into a stereotypical animu rather than the FE we're used to, or end up making no sense how the characters actually fall in love with each other, but others, like Ronku x Serge, goes into Ronku's past and his reason for fearing women and is quite nice (though that one is not in English at the moment). GBA doesn't have the shitty animu supports, but while it has some great gems it also has some really bland ones, so I say they're not that far off.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Fat Bunny

[dondon151]

Seeing as FE13's promotion system is absolutely perfect, I'd love to hear a more detailed argument for this.

"absolutely perfect" is a completely subjective appraisal of FE13's promotion system, so i am really not obligated to respond to this statement.

perhaps detail how FE13's promotion system is "absolutely perfect," because all i see right now is a dumb little gimmick that is mostly useless because more than half the time, it lands you in a class in which you have no weapon rank, and half of the time, there's no reason to use a change seal anyway because either the default class is already the best or the alternatives are kind of bad.

Starting class mattering > Starting class not mattering

where are you getting the notion that starting class didn't matter in FE12? starting class typically determines what a unit can and can't reclass into because of base weapon ranks. good luck reclassing cecile to pegasus knight or rody to pirate, or something.

furthermore, i don't understand your inequality. i could just as easily contend that the converse is true, because in FE13 you have to get to L10 in order to even change your class in the first place, and then you're locked in that class for however long, and in general the flexibility is greatly compromised. there's a much larger strategic space for unrestricted reclassing precisely because you can change into anything that's the most useful whenever you want.

And then FE13 goes on to have even more than the character's starting class matter with their unique class sets, or variable class sets in the case of the children, creating a flexible and potentially modifiable branched multi-tier system.

explain to me why a multi-tier system is good. FE10 had a multi-tier system, and that was lame. all multi-tier systems do is to encourage stat inflation. which isn't bad per se, but it doesn't add very much, and i feel like fire emblem could do without stats going up to 50. certainly there is an argument for a multi-tier system with the introduction of learned skills, but how many times are you seriously going to reclass in a playthrough just to learn a certain skill, particularly if you have to give up a class's utility in the meantime?

Furthermore, the implementation of skills demonstrates thoroughly that you have no idea what you're talking about.

it doesn't demonstrate anything. do you see it demonstrating anything? i sure as hell don't.

it seems to me that the reason why anyone complained about the FE12 reclass system was because it "negated character originality" in a game where characters were mostly defined by what they do while ignoring how it improved the gameplay. that clearly isn't the case here in FE13 where every character has a full array of fleshed out conversations that allow for broader characterization.

Edited June 17, 2012 by dondon151

[Candehmuncher]

@dark i suggest u wont lend her ur awakening anymore :| its kinda dissapointing that she has the guts to say that. well thats a let down for a friend that is...

@don i respect ur opinion but ur opinion sucks. U didnt even played the game yet, i suggest you shouldn't buy this game while we enjoy reclassing like its the end of the world and ur calling it a "gimmick feature"

... says fe12 who has reclassing feature

guess U dont have a budgeet to buy awakening and a 3ds tsk tsk tsk.

Edited June 17, 2012 by Candehmuncher

[Cammy white]

i kinda have to agree with candeh :U but its my opinion

y u no like fe13?! or reclassing -facepalm-

[Dark Nocturne]

@don i really disagree with you. i think any argument in this game about re classing units to a class where they have an E rank is muted by forging and how much gold you get in this game. u basically get 2,000 gold every skirmish so theres no worry about forging. and yea if you played it you would class change for skills cuz if ur playing on harder modes you WILL need them, lunatic is brutal and u need all the skills you can get. on the other hand yea u prolly will need to grind a little bit for that but not ridiculously so.my only complaint about the reclassing in Serge's options, she really needed another melee class instead of cleric in her options. i would have like to see mercenary or myrmidon in there. tho surprisingly she makes an awesome Valkyrie. FE12 was one of my fav games and i really liked it, but the reclassing was a little bland. anyone can become anything is generic and with the growths they had some didnt have alot of options. but in 13 everyone is at least good in all their options. it is a huge step up, and im sorry you can't see that

[thunderstrife]

The problem with reclassing in FE11/FE12 was that there were basically no limitations. Like, you could reclass every unit, every chapter, with no penalty. At least the new way forces you to make decisions about who you want to use, what class you want, etc. The old system required no foresight: you could have most/all your units mounted in a large-map chapter, and then immediately switch everyone to magic users for the next.

And I'm confused what you're saying about this game forcing you to pick from classes with "low/no weapon rank" - but how is that not true in FE11/FE12? If you reclass Nabarl to Cavalier, his lance rank is going to be the class minimum.

The new system gives a reason to actually objectively look at different units and compare them. Like "Sumiacan promote laterally to X, Y and Z, whereas Tiamo can access A, B and C" rather than every "who is better" debate just boiling down to stats and availability. If you ask me, some limitations make the game WAY more interesting - because it forces you to utilize strategy which is what attracts most people to Fire Emblem.

Edited June 17, 2012 by thunderstrife

[NeonZ]

perhaps detail how FE13's promotion system is "absolutely perfect," because all i see right now is a dumb little gimmick that is mostly useless because more than half the time, it lands you in a class in which you have no weapon rank, and half of the time, there's no reason to use a change seal anyway because either the default class is already the best or the alternatives are kind of bad.

Huh... those are the problems with FE 11/12's system, not FE13's. The issue that you mention there is mostly fixed thanks to the new skill system. Classes that don't share weapon proficiencies or even that share weapon proficiencies but are slightly weaker than alternatives suddenly become viable choices to give the character their skills. Without that, they'd be just useless.

certainly there is an argument for a multi-tier system with the introduction of learned skills, but how many times are you seriously going to reclass in a playthrough just to learn a certain skill, particularly if you have to give up a class's utility in the meantime?

I don't see why you're bringing up FE10. A straight progression through three classes is pretty different from a system with upgrades and sideway changes with only two tiers of classes.

Even if you're just going with one reclass and one promotion, that still adds a lot of flexibility and variation for all characters, without hurting their identity, unlike FE11/12's system - due to how each character has their own limited set of classes and skills. The question that you make in the end is exactly what makes this system good -> usability versus learning experience. Rather than just considering how effective the class/character combo is in the present like in FE 11/12, you also need to consider the skills he'll get from that. Strategic decisions need to have weight. FE 11/12's semi-universal class pools and free reclasses were problematic exactly due to that. It reduced most characters to a set of growth rates and base stats, with their base class losing a lot of relevance there, only mattering due to weapon ranks (and, for the male characters, to determine which one out of the two pool of classes were usable).

Edited June 17, 2012 by NeonZ

[dondon151]

@don i respect ur opinion but ur opinion sucks.

Your grammar sucks and your opinion is hardly coherent. I wouldn't be talking if I were you. I also highly doubt that you actually respect my opinion.

U didnt even played the game yet,

Neither have most of the people who are arguing about the game! So are you going to assume that the opinions of 2 users are the gospel?

i suggest you shouldn't buy this game while we enjoy reclassing like its the end of the world and ur calling it a "gimmick feature"

... says fe12 who has reclassing feature

Learn some reading comprehension. Reclassing is widely and commonly used in FE12. Change seals are a gimmick in FE13 because of all of the limitations that I had already mentioned.

guess U dont have a budgeet to buy awakening and a 3ds tsk tsk tsk.

Do you really want to go here? I will wreck you.

@don i really disagree with you. i think any argument in this game about re classing units to a class where they have an E rank is muted by forging and how much gold you get in this game. u basically get 2,000 gold every skirmish so theres no worry about forging.

Why are you forging E rank weapons when you could be forging better weapons? Why do you need to engage in skirmishes to fund change seal shenanigans? Thanks for proving my point.

and yea if you played it you would class change for skills cuz if ur playing on harder modes you WILL need them, lunatic is brutal and u need all the skills you can get.

Really? I doubt it. People used to think that you needed Wolf and Sedgar to even have a chance at FE11 H5. Clearly it wasn't that brutal! And now, with some people claiming that Nosferatu trivializes the game, then there is really no evidence that you "need all the skills you can get."

but in 13 everyone is at least good in all their options. it is a huge step up, and im sorry you can't see that

Callum as priest. Richt as archer. And so on.

Oh, excellent non-apology apology there. I've never seen that before!

The problem with reclassing in FE11/FE12 was that there were basically no limitations. Like, you could reclass every unit, every chapter, with no penalty.

And that's exactly what made it so good. But you're also wrong in that there is no penalty: every decision that you made had opportunity costs, and those are pretty significant.

At least the new way forces you to make decisions about who you want to use, what class you want, etc. The old system required no foresight: you could have most/all your units mounted in a large-map chapter, and then immediately switch everyone to magic users for the next.

The necessity of foresight is overrated; it's especially harmful if it discourages the usage of those mechanics in the first place. Furthermore, your proposed scenario doesn't actually exist because some characters perform poorly in mounted classes and most perform poorly in magic classes.

And I'm confused what you're saying about this game forcing you to pick from classes with "low/no weapon rank" - but how is that not true in FE11/FE12? If you reclass Nabarl to Cavalier, his lance rank is going to be the class minimum.

But Navarre has the option to go into cavalier, and he retains his sword rank, which is good. If you need an unpromoted unit to go into another class in FE13, then you're not forced to leave him in that class afterwards.

The new system gives a reason to actually objectively look at different units and compare them. Like "Sumiacan promote laterally to X, Y and Z, whereas Tiamo can access A, B and C" rather than every "who is better" debate just boiling down to stats and availability. If you ask me, some limitations make the game WAY more interesting - because it forces you to utilize strategy which is what attracts most people to Fire Emblem.

If you ask me, some limitations make options not even worth considering.

Edited June 17, 2012 by dondon151

[Ciarre]

Honestly, I think the skills are what makes reclass worth going for. I don't think I'd use it if there wasn't the skills (if I had the game, which I don't).

Edited June 17, 2012 by Executioner

[Anouleth]

Honestly, I think the skills are what makes reclass worth going for. I don't think I'd use it if there wasn't the skills (if I had the game, which I don't).

Therein lies the rub of the issue. Few, in fact, I would go so far as to say none of the unpromoted classes seem to have skills that are worth reclassing for. Class changing not only means you often are stuck with a class with bad weapon ranks (except Cavalier but most characters don't have that as an option), but it delays that all important promotion boost. Perhaps it's more worthwhile in promoted classes, where the skills are stronger and there's generally much greater flexibility (for example you can make Soiree into a Dracomaster and keep her Lance rank, but you couldn't do that before promotion).

[Only My Unit]

I shouldn't be replying here, but I'll post anyways.

Lunatic+ is the hardest mode in FE history, according to players have beaten all of the other games at their hardest. The enemies get randomized special skills and spawn points as well as high stats, not to mention having enemy only skills that are stronger versions of the player accessible version (except for Accuracy +10). If you don't Nosfatank (and sometimes while trying to do so on Lunatic+) you will get murdered skill wise due to all of the enemy loadouts.

Unless you really want to play for turns, foresight and weapon ranks don't matter as much due to the ability to grind on skirmishes and DLC maps. And yes, some decisions for final classes suck for characters, but you may need to put them through those classes in order to gain a skill that is needed to cover a weakness or put emphasis on a strength or make a strategic combination.

You may be able to make a run without the added features of this game and win, but it'll be a lot harder. If you're the guy who does that successfully, congratulations.

[dondon151]

Oh wow, I didn't notice this until Anouleth brought it up, but even promoted units have base E rank in all weapons.

[Only My Unit]

Yup. Y'all gotta grind for those new ranks. Thankfully Discipline is there for the Cav. reclassers.

[Anouleth]

I shouldn't be replying here, but I'll post anyways.

Lunatic+ is the hardest mode in FE history, according to players have beaten all of the other games at their hardest.

Westbrick and Othin haven't played FE12 Lunatic Reverse to the best of my knowledge.

The enemies get randomized special skills and spawn points as well as high stats, not to mention having enemy only skills that are stronger versions of the player accessible version (except for Accuracy +10). If you don't Nosfatank (and sometimes while trying to do so on Lunatic+) you will get murdered skill wise due to all of the enemy loadouts.

Unless you really want to play for turns, foresight and weapon ranks don't matter as much due to the ability to grind on skirmishes and DLC maps. And yes, some decisions for final classes suck for characters, but you may need to put them through those classes in order to gain a skill that is needed to cover a weakness or put emphasis on a strength or make a strategic combination.

You may be able to make a run without the added features of this game and win, but it'll be a lot harder. If you're the guy who does that successfully, congratulations.

I highly doubt that with the exception of reclassing MU and Miriel into Dark Mages, there are any reclasses that make the game significantly easier. Oh, woohoo, Frederick gets er, Defender and Holy Shield. That's really going to make sooooo much difference.

[Only My Unit]

I didn't say significant. Small changes help if they build up, y'know?

[dondon151]

Yup. Y'all gotta grind for those new ranks. Thankfully Discipline is there for the Cav. reclassers.

So you're arguing in favor of a mechanic that encourages grinding?