Higurashi Mafia - Game over

[Subieko]

There. That's a more concise way of pointing out something, and directing it at BBM in a non-aggressive way.

Thank you. ^^

(also gah, Jury Duty can be very frustrating, totally understand where you're coming from)

I thought it was standard to lynch someone at phase end even if there wasn't a majority? I think the way Scorri was lynched was kind of our own fault for not getting organized earlier in the phase.

[Balcerzak]

Okay, a couple of starter points before I go back and spend some time really analyzing things even deeper:

• I agree that the vig shouldn't shoot
  
• This situation is one of the few in which I would not mind a no lynch, but I will support a lynch anyway for many and various reasons.
  
  • Admitted bastard modding + zero kills during night -> not impossible that there is no mafia, and we're all just victims of hinamizawa syndrome paranoia.
    
  • This paranoia is pretty clearly not PGO type paranoia, or else we'd have shit-tons of death.
    
  • This paranoia could be role-blocker PGO paranoia perhaps, yet nobody claimed roleblocked, so quite unlikely.
    
  • This situation wouldn't make for a long-lived game after consecutive nights of no kills, as people would be suspicious.
  • It's also somewhat been tried before, and people would be wise to it.
    
  • This is far too reliant on the setting flavor, and probably should be discarded.

  [*]We do not have a hit BP.

  • Hit BP should always claim when hit to avoid doctor mistakening clearing their doc target.
    
  • Similarly to avoid a town RB from outing their target as scum, when they may not be.
    
  • Because if they're lynched, the mafia will get more information from it than the town would.

  [*]So far my role has been completely useless. No conclusions able to be drawn. Hopefully the situation improves.

[Percivalé]

My role is also useless and I'm kind of confused

[BBM]

Elieson, I'm not even understanding your point. Yeah, a majority at phase end, even if it was 3 votes, would be enough for a lynch. But I didn't know that early in the phase that that would be the situation at the end. You can't seriously tell me that anyone began the phase thinking that someone would be lynched off 3 votes. If they did, I would have to question why they made random votes.

@Bal- If there is a mafia, they may very well idle now to get us thinking that there isn't. >_:

[eclipse]

I think you guys are both overthinking and underthinking the bastard mod part. I'd go into more detail, but that would require spilling parts of my role PM that I don't want to.

[CT075]

Okay, user-by-user thoughts:

Marth:

I try to act scummy enough that the mafia don't want to kill me, but townie enough that the town doesn't want to lynch me. It's a hard balance to get and I tend to err in the too scummy side.

See, I get the feeling you had a power role by the way you say you don't wanna die. Yeah, you just outed out the fact that you were trying to 'fly under the radar.' Guess what's the contradiction?

@Elieson- why?

##Unvote, ##Vote: Elieson

That is information which benefits the mafia a lot. It lets them automatically cancel out people who are not high priority targets like the Doc and the Cop, while also letting them know who they probably don't want to target yet. On the other hand, very few town roles care about whether someone's role is passive or active.

You bashed Elieson for asking whether our roles were active and passive, and said the mafia shouldn't have that info. With what you just said, the mafia now gets an idea that you in fact had a nice PR and wanted to avoid any commotion. At least this is what I can infer from your latest posts.

this post more than anything is giving me a town feel but i could be wrong.

not to mention, this post at least shows he wasn't on the scorri wagon (that I can tell - the 'posts in isolation' thing isn't showing him voting for scorri ever)

Bizz:

crapton of posts and i'm getting a vaguely townish feel but can't get a really good read at all

Kay:

are you and I (and shinori) the only ones who can't see the point of what elieson was doing? Thinking town.

Elieson:

My thoughts on you are pretty much unchanged. I still don't see any advantage to telling us you have information at all, but i'll bow to your experience for this day only.

okay that's a lie i do have a sneaking suspicion about your plan but it just seems stupidly risky to me

unless you're trying to get shot?

Balcerzak:

exist plz

Shinori:

First off, I'd like to apologize for what I said at the end of the day last time. I, uh... it was late for me (ignore what my timezone says i'm actually further east than that) and i was kind of retarded

I dunno what to say. At first I was getting a scum read but it wasn't that strong... and then with that claim now that i'm thinking about it with a gallon of caffeine in my blood I'm more inclined to think that Town Kidnapper is too weird of a role to fakeclaim.

You should ask JB/Lieris if kidnapping a mafia member stops them from talking in the scum pm

Eclipse:

surefire town read

BBM:

My impressions are all over the place but leaning scum. i'm getting a panicked sense from what he's saying, like we're onto something we shouldn't be, but then again i can't read anything worth a damn so lol

for one, he jumped on elieson too quickly for my tastes but bleah.

Rein/Aere:

see balcerzak

Rapier:

i'm not seeing a lot of content posts tbh (although it's still more than me afaik...) and it's sounding off to me but it's not like blatantly antitown or anything.

Subieko:

That one post everyone (myself included, that was a mistake) jumped on you for comes across in hindsight more as a misunderstanding or something and the other posts aren't exactly looking bad

Helios:

looks more like a panictown to me but what do i know

Cam:

a stupid scummy echoing noob

[Elieson]

I think you guys are both overthinking and underthinking the bastard mod part.

I don't think we're over/underthinking it. Perhaps we're just thinking about it in a way that's not really beneficial to success.

I'm hoping we learn something coming up though. It's going to be a long ride if we're stuck with a slew of ITPs and 2 mafia or something ridiculous like that (which I suspect Bal hinted at).

Not that i'm worried about that being a serious possibility. I'm more concerned with lynching out people who aren't town, no matter the alignment.

[Balcerzak]

Day 2 responses

I think they hit a doc (which I am 99.9% is in this game)

This statement is 99.9% bad play.

Also I think this shows that we don't have an SK in the game unless all the killers have extremely terrible luck.

For generic SK rules, perhaps. There are some wolfs who can alternate nights between killing and self-protecting, in order to give them a fighting chance at their victory condition. It's too early to rule anything out, although I agree the no-kill definitely diminishes that particular hostile ITP.

Scumnori, get that vote off of me.

Way the fuck too aggressive there Elieson. Just what the hell are you doing this game? Incredibly fucking twitchy at getting voted isn't improving your situation.

It was a tie. let's see before end phase- Oh only eclipse was online. And she wanted Scorri lynched. And she was the one who started the Scorri wagon in the first place. There was no one else I could convince.

Except I was defending myself for most of the phase. I stopped for a couple hours near the end because almost nobody was online at that time.

"No-one being online at the time" is a terrible fucking reason to not post. When in doubt, post. This is terrible behaviour on both your parts, though not necessarily indicative of alliance. I know, for a fact, that I was online and reading things, and you have no idea of knowing who else might have been, or might have woken up/logged in before phase end and would have been able to see them. Will elaborate more on specifics if need be, but just pointing this out.

Also, Bal, I believe you said that you had suspicions that you didn't want to post until the day phase? Where are those?

After the change between D1->N1, my suspicions on eclipse and Helios had risen very sharply. The suspicion on Helios has died off, but the feeling about eclipse remains steady. All too often I think she's given a free-pass during the lynching/suspicion phases, and if anything people try to focus her during the night phases. This is worrying behaviour, and certainly not unique to eclipse, however. SF mafia as a whole has the incredibly worrying pattern of repeatedly lynching the same "bad/inexperienced" players because of honest missteps, while ignoring the "establishment" simply because of seniority. The more I see of this, the more discouraged I get.

Before I read in-depth, I'm going to share my opinion that, looking back, I kind of wish we had lynched one of the inactive players rather than scorri. I kind of feel embarrassed of myself for jumping on that bandwagon.

Lynching inactives D1 is a terrible idea. When they flip, there's no thread interactions that can be scrutinized, and no knowledge to be gained. After D2 certainly, lynching inactives becomes more viable if trying to eliminate lurk-scum, but honestly, on D1 in a day start game? Bizz. I am disappoint.

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

That's what I got for the most part from this post. I really feel like for all the words in this post there is nothing of notable mention in it, and then you end it by voting Elieson who is most likely not going to be lynched, what, two hours from phase end?

I was absolutely not going to vote scorri, for reasons I made completely clear (going from 0-60mph while she's asleep and unable to defend herself is just complete horseshit). I had townleaning feelings on BBM. People that I wanted lynched had no chance of being lynched, and my vote wasn't going to affect the outcome either way. So I do the right thing for town to do and vote who I honestly feel is scummy, so that later, with more flips, people can track this with certainty. It's also how during real elections I don't vote based on who is going to win, but who I want to win. I have a long history of libertarian candidates on my ballots, and that's nothing to be ashamed of. I'd also already voted Eli previously, but was doing it again to fix the mistaken lack of an unvote, which when mods are proclaiming themselves bastard-inclined, you want to make damn sure you're following not only the spirit of the rules, but their letter as well.

With that said, Elieson has not only not improved his game from D1, but actively played even more scummilly, I will once again vote my heart.

##Vote: Elieson

[eclipse]

The fact that I'm playing like I don't really give should tell you what I think of my role, among other things. I predict one of two things that'll happen if Marth is lynched, and if it's the flavor-based bastardry that's in my role PM, I'll gladly volunteer to be the D3 lynch target.

[Elieson]

The fact that I'm playing like I don't really give should tell you what I think of my role, among other things. I predict one of two things that'll happen if Marth is lynched, and if it's the flavor-based bastardry that's in my role PM, I'll gladly volunteer to be the D3 lynch target.

I'm not sure why, but I'm sure you have your reasons.

I can't assume anything on your meta, but I think i have an idea as to what's going on.

[eclipse]

I'm trying to figure out what the hell happened in regards to my role. At worst, I'll have to play as if I'm vanilla.

[Elieson]

If we're looking at this like rolechanges, could we assume Role Poisoner?

And as far as Bastard Modding goes. Iris is a player in this after all. She may have a role that can mess with us just as easily as JayBee could.

[eclipse]

I wouldn't say this was a role poison. I'm guessing it's more story-based, and if it's what I'm deathly afraid of, I will be extremely mad.

I'm guessing lynching Iris would be the equivalent of No Lynch.

[Iris]

Guys, you can't actually lynch me, that was JB being an idiot (Eclipse how can you deal with such an idiotic son; I see why you're sending him to boarding school). ):

~10 hours left.

[Percivalé]

Wow, I really don't know what my role does.

I'm kind of scared.

[Percivalé]

I'll be here for a while--maybe not RIGHT AT phase end, but at least for the next five or six hours. I'll decide on an actual vote by then.

[Helios]

Iris = Tokyo

It all makes sense now

[eclipse]

If Marth flips town, I'm guessing there's three mafia in the game; any more and that would seriously fuck with balance.

[Helios]

Is balance affected by bastard modding though?

Also I'll come up with more substantial posts later and reread stuff, because quite frankly I don't remember why Eclipse wants him lynched so bad.

[eclipse]

In this case, it will be.

[BBM]

...I think I have an idea of what Eclipse is hinting at, but I'm not quite sure why Marth's flip in particular is so important.

[eclipse]

I might explain later. . .if I can figure out what the hell happened last night.

[Balcerzak]

I am liking less and less with each post what eclipse is saying.

She feels far too informed.

[eclipse]

Sounds like someone isn't happy with his role.

[Percivalé]

I'm getting a worse and worse feeling...