RvB3: Lyn

[BBM]

Now you guys are just being pedantics.

[Westbrick]

Now you guys are just being pedantics.

Basketball game. Tie score. Three seconds on the clock. Player A makes a perfect assist to Player B, who slams it home for the game-winning dunk. Who deserves credit for the score? I don't know, but there's no clear answer. You could argue B because he made the dunk; you could argue A because he put B in a position to make the dunk.

Best thing to do is just say "Player A and B were the most important pieces in that final play."

Edited June 29, 2012 by Westbrick

[Saria]

Now you guys are just being pedantics.

Sorry that some of us think that Sigurd and Celice are a package deal and both had equal shaping of FE4's events?

[Baldrick]

The bold part wasn't meant to be a serious objection.

Except Sigurd thinks Leptor and Langobalt are the main villains, while they're just pawns. He doesn't rebel against Alvis/Manfroy.

Who's a pedant? Both Claude and Byron tell him L&L killed Kurth. He thinks Alvis is on his side, and doesn't realise until it's too late that Alvis isn't. He knows the Dark Sect is behind it all, but they don't come out of hiding until after Barhara and Sigurd couldn't know Manfroy exists.

[BBM]

When I was talking about you guys being pedants, I was talking about the Sigurd giving birth to Celice bit.

[Othin]

This assumes that the ending is more important than the beginning. Why not give Sigurd credit for planting the seeds that would lead to a successful rebellion against the Loptu?

So do we call Elbert as much the main character of FE7 as Eliwood is? Both Elbert and Sigurd stumble into a larger mess and get themselves killed after tangling with some minor villains but never doing much at all against the main villains, setting the stage for their sons to do the real work.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Othin

[StrategistPockystix]

wow, that's probably the best rendition of a female lord yet

[Karasz]

Lyn's design isn't too far off from the original design, which I like, but it's too similar to Sairi. The stomach wrap, neck warmer, cloak, dual swords, and arm guards are somewhat of a dead giveaway. I mean, let's compare, shall we?

[spoiler=The New Lyn]

[spoiler=Sairi]

I would think Lyn would keep some originalities with her look, which she does, but all the similarities with Sairi are too striking. Although if I had to guess...maybe while passing through the Other World Gate, her clothes were updated to fit in with the traditions and appearances of the Swordmasters in this game. But if Lyn looks similar to Sairi...does that mean Celice looks similar to Renha? No one can really tell, as there's no full-body art of Renha out.

On a more interesting note, Renha is referred to as the "Sword Saint." That was Karel's old title in Sword of Seals. So considering how far off the Elibe duology might be to the Kingdom of Iris, would that mean it's a title that is passed down as the ages go by? Only comparison I can draw here is Yoshimitsu from Soul Calibur & Tekken, where the previous wielder of the sword has to be slain for the title to be passed on. But that hardly seems viable in the Fire Emblem universe. Huh...interesting...

Edited June 29, 2012 by Karaszure

[Zeoka]

They are both Swordmasters. (atleast I believe Lyn to be) So maybe it is because they are the same class that they have the same clothes and therefor same design.

[Shun One]

They are both Swordmasters. (atleast I believe Lyn to be) So maybe it is because they are the same class that they have the same clothes and therefor same design.

This. It's essentially the same as saying Kieran and Oscar look too similar.

[Zeoka]

Nah, not entirely. Because Kieran and Oscar's hair styles and faces are way different. Lyn and Sairi both have really long hair and kind of similiar faces. Though, Lyn wears her long hair in a pony tail.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Zeoka

[Otherarrow]

On a more interesting note, Renha is referred to as the "Sword Saint." That was Karel's old title in Sword of Seals. So considering how far off the Elibe duology might be to the Kingdom of Iris, would that mean it's a title that is passed down as the ages go by? Only comparison I can draw here is Yoshimitsu from Soul Calibur & Tekken, where the previous wielder of the sword has to be slain for the title to be passed on. But that hardly seems viable in the Fire Emblem universe. Huh...interesting...

I don't think the Sword Saint is a specific reference to Karel. If I recall, Odo, founder of Isaac in FE4, was also titled Sword Saint. And there is the Trueblade class, which was Sword Saint in the Japanese version. I think that once a swordsman reaches a certain point of skill and fame, people start calling them a Sword Saint, even if they aren't related to any other Sword Saint.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Otherarrow

[Lakmé]

It also apears in Guy's ending : "Guy- Mounted Swordsman Guy continued in his quest to be the finest swordsman in all of Sacae. His form was so perfected that all called him the Saint of Swords."

[Thor Odinson]

Like I said a few pages ago, character designs in this game are largely based off of class designs. All SMs have the fluffy things and coat and those shoulder armour and such. Lyn's is pretty customised what with keeping her outfit's palette from Elibe, and all those fancy gold engraving stuff.

[BrightBow]

I don't think the Sword Saint is a specific reference to Karel. If I recall, Odo, founder of Isaac in FE4, was also titled Sword Saint. And there is the Trueblade class, which was Sword Saint in the Japanese version. I think that once a swordsman reaches a certain point of skill and fame, people start calling them a Sword Saint, even if they aren't related to any other Sword Saint.

Sword Saint in the japanese version? Are you sure? It doesn't say so on this site. I always wondered why the German version called them Sword Saints. Maybe the Bronze weapons in PoR were no coincidence either.

...Well anyway, there is not much reason to assume it's a reference to Karel since Fire Emblem definitely didn't made that term up. For example, I remember Baldurs Gate II using Sword Saint in it's description of the Kensai class-kit.

Edited June 29, 2012 by BrightBow

[Othin]

According to Pegasus Knight, the Japanese name is 剣聖, which indeed translates to Sword Saint. 剣聖 is once more listed in S22's title in FE13, Renha's recruitment map; the full name translates to "The Sword Saint Returns".

Edited June 29, 2012 by Othin

[alarnis92]

Well it's great to see Lyn. Well let me rephrase, it's nice to see a FE7 DLC character finally.

Although as much as I really like Lyn, I was hoping for Eliwood.

Agh, it figures that the lords I really wanted to see as DLCs haven't happened yet...(Sigurd, Eliwood, Ike).

[Westbrick]

So do we call Elbert as much the main character of FE7 as Eliwood is? Both Elbert and Sigurd stumble into a larger mess and get themselves killed after tangling with some minor villains but never doing much at all against the main villains, setting the stage for their sons to do the real work.

Unlike Sigurd and Celice, we don't follow around Eliwood and Elbert for equal periods of time. The narrative never focuses on Elbert as a central character. Were FE7 divided up into two halves, one following Elbert and one following Eliwood, then yeah, I'd say they were both main characters.

[BBM]

No one is disputing that Sigurd and Celice are both main characters. The question is which one of them is more of a main character. And it's the one who actually does stuff, not the one who gives us the background and lets us have a generation system.

[Westbrick]

No one is disputing that Sigurd and Celice are both main characters. The question is which one of them is more of a main character. And it's the one who actually does stuff, not the one who gives us the background and lets us have a generation system.

I'm still waiting for qualities that Celice has that Sigurd doesn't that unambiguously contribute to being "more of a main character." Here are a few of the basics:

1) Narrative follows around, and treats as centerpiece of the story, this character. Equal for both Sigurd and Celice.

2) Typically contributes a major role in determining how events play out. True for both Sigurd and Celice. What you seem to want to argue is that because Celice beats the big bad at the end, that's more important than Sigurd, at the beginning, setting up Celice's ability to beat the big bad. Look at the basketball analogy I provided .You may feel one way or another (I happen to lean Sigurd being more important on this one), but is it unambiguous? Nah.

Anything I'm missing?

Edited June 29, 2012 by Westbrick

[Saria]

No one is disputing that Sigurd and Celice are both main characters. The question is which one of them is more of a main character. And it's the one who actually does stuff, not the one who gives us the background and lets us have a generation system.

But Sigurd does do stuff, important things to the story, we follow him through the first leg of the game, he is your lord character through the first half of the game. If Sigurd were like Elbert where you mostly only hear about his actions instead of actually following him and playing as him, then yeah, he obviously wouldn't be as important as Celice. But FE4 is a generational game that follows a father and son in equal parts, both of whom are important to the whole lore of the story is the point I and I think Westbrick are trying to make too.

I don't understand what actually makes Celice more important, because he had to fight the final boss after Sigurd had been murdered? Because he actually exhibits traits that qualify him as more of a main (if so what are they)? Because the game spends more of it's story on him (which it doesn't)?

I wouldn't say Celice or Sigurd is more important to the story than the other, but I seriously don't understand what would make either of them more important to the overall story than the other.

[Momo]

Celice saves the world while Sigurd fails to save the continent.

As far as marketing goes, Sigurd would probably be "the" main character though, since he's more mature and manly. Kind of like Ike being the main character of 10.

[Arch]

#serenespeople

The only people who can initiate a pages-long debate about whether the main character of the first part of a two part game is in fact a main character.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Arch

[Saria]

Aaah sorry, I'm not actually trying to argue that Sigurd is the main while Celice isn't. I really think they're both equally as important and neither can really be flagged as the main, but it seemed necessary to list why Sigurd is just as important as Celice.

[Sunwoo]

Lyn, huh?

Well, as long as we get Ike for the next DLC, I'll have nothing else to say.