Question Suggestion Confession

[Crimson Red]

AKA a long jumbled rant about what I think on how we confront new hackers and how it's not helping the FE community in general

Ignore the stuff about me getting warned, I made it have its own topic now so it *shouldn't* get any complaints

[spoiler=Wall of Text, You were Warned]

I know of no hacker who does EVERYTHING themself

I'm pretty close... but no Xeld and NL have helped me multiple times

except the answers to your question are the third entry from the top when i use forum search

except you know what to search for and what topics might have the answer. You already know what you're looking for and you know what the answer is, so it's easier for you. From the perspective of the "newbie", i.e. someone who doesn't know what to do or even what they might be looking for, the amount of topics that possibly answer it and possible search terms is overwhelming and the amount of time and work it takes to go through that is better spent taking 30 seconds to make a question and have someone answer it precisely in about the same time, 30 seconds. When you see "script converter", well, you made it so you know what it does, but that doesn't mean Arim does. Could he figure it out and learn a little more on his own? Yes. Is there any real point in scolding him? Not really, he put in a respectable amount of effort and gave up when he couldn't find the answer because continuing on would be a waste of time.

I could ask Yeti every possible question there is about FEXP but I spend the vast amount of time trying to learn it myself. But hey, why should I bother figuring it out myself when I can just ask and never learn?

There is a difference in trying to learn something that is well-known and can be taught easily versus something that... isn't. He's put out effort to try to learn, but failed. People have their limitations, but that doesn't mean you have to look down on everyone who's limitations are less than your own. And why should someone bother "re-inventing the wheel", or rather, find out how it's done themselves, if they can just ask and learn much quicker? They're still learning either way, one is just more a efficient way because you're getting a direct answer.

There are exceptions to this, such as pinned topics and the very basics, e.g. Nightmare, or for that matter any of the basics that are covered in the Ultimate Tutorial IMO (because the point of that was to limit questions like these), but I have never heard this exact question before and while I *happen* to know about BwdYeti's GIFs and the converter which I just found out about recently, most other hackers I know don't. Don't go assuming things are obvious just because they're obvious for YOU. Put things into perspective.

Stop.

Why should I spend my time to write you an answer when you're clearly unwilling to spend your time figuring it out?

There are other threads about anims, maybe you should READ THEM. Maybe one of them has the answer to your question.

Cam, you're just hard on new hackers, so I feel like trying to explain why this is a very poor approach to the matter isn't going to help, but I'll briefly do so anyway because I'm feeling stubborn:

1) He spent his time. "But if he spent his time, he would have found it" is a moot argument: see above regarding different perspectives, knowing what one is searching for/looking for, knowing what terms to use, etc.; he said he spent his time and spending a lot of time trying to find the answer to something somebody else already knows the answer to or somebody else knows where to find the answer to is, simply put, a waste of time.

2) What's the point in the hacking questions forum, are people only supposed to ever ask new questions? If so, then this is a shitty excuse for a questions forum, IMO. People have their own unique situations and you can't try to answer everyone by linking to a similar topic or thread. Regardless, I'd like to see an animation topic that focused on this same issue of wanting to recreate an existing animation and wanting the proper positionings and timings, as a question, because there should at least be one similar thread by your logic of "this question topic isn't warranted".

I've seen plenty of other posts in this section asking questions about animations.

no, no, you need to ask in the Hacking Questions forum. That, Arim, is a silly mistake.

And why should I have to figure it out myself when I can just ask?

Yes, no; you put in some effort, and if it doesn't work out, you can ask a question knowing that you're not just being lazy or an idiot. Depending on the complexity of the issue, you should put in various amounts of effort--something like this would probably take 5-10 minutes to find the answer, whereas something as simple as getting FEditor Adv to load or how to insert map sprites should take less than a minute. If you put in whatever effort you think would be required to find the answer given that harder questions generally have answers that are harder to find, then *most* people will at least respect you enough to answer your question.

But again, it's not welcoming to new hackers when they get scolded for asking questions and trying to learn. It's things like these that keep a lot of hackers off forums and it doesn't help the Fire Emblem community as a whole when newbs aren't around because if you want an active community, you NEED those newbs. They post way more than most intelligent members, they tend to have more ideas, and can dedicate more time to making the site active. Start by welcoming them and helping them while nicely explaining the PROPER way to go about things because believe it or not, it takes some intelligence to do research, which is why they constantly teach it in schools and the smarter ones always complain about how stupid it is to have to learn how to do research.

You guys, can, of course, ignore my suggestion, but I still am going to do everything I can, at least, to help new hackers. That doesn't mean babying them, that means being welcoming and guiding them in the right direction. You would be surprised how many hackers I find on youtube and via e-mail who hack but never share their stuff because they're practically scared of doing so thanks to the FE community's reputation as a whole

And if I get banned for arguing my opinion on how people should go about asking and answering questions in order to benefit the FE community, then my point is only being proved more-so. It's not as bad as I make it seem to be, but it's still relatively bad. *shrug*

EDIT:

"If the information can be found with a simple search query, we're pretty hostile towards your question for wasting our time."

This is probably not the best example to be trying to change hackers' hostility because Arim is extremely nice and lets people push him around, and he honestly could have looked a little harder, this is really a silly approach in that, as explained before, being hostile only sends people away and gives them the message that they aren't welcomed, and most of the time doesn't change their personality or behavior because most people don't respond well to hostility.

Despite this, hackers have a reputation for meeting simple questions with what looks like hostility or arrogance. It sometimes looks like we're reflexively rude to newbies and the ignorant. But this isn't really true.

The fact that the intention to be rude isn't there doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. A silly statement, IMO.

We're (largely) volunteers. We take time out of busy lives to answer questions, and at times we're overwhelmed with them. So we filter ruthlessly. In particular, we throw away questions from people who appear to be losers in order to spend our question-answering time more efficiently, on winners.

Between plenty of able people who can answer questions and the small amount of time it takes to answer these, I don't see the problem: it's not like this forum gets so many questions a day that we can't keep up and we actually have to filter them. I've helped people in 10 seconds by just saying "google Ultimate Tutorial, check the table of contents" and they thanked me because they didn't know it existed in the first place and after that they were smart enough to answer the question on their own. I doubt anyone gets off their laptop feeling stressed after the 1-2 questions a week they answer unless you're me because I'm stupid enough to make all my contact details public and get 10 a week.

There also aren't many "winner" questions either. There's little reason to stop the couple questions that do come in and reduce it to even less questions. I don't know why you guys don't welcome questions: they help people learn, encourage people to hack more, you feel good knowing you help someone (or at least, I'd like to think you do) and it increases activity on whatever forum you're answering your question.

And it's not just hackers that are like this. This is a problem all over the internet, but no one stands up for it because it's so much easier not to. The people who aren't welcomed simply stay away, and it sucks because most of them are pretty cool people AFAIC (minus the occasional ACTUAL idiot who is just hopeless). And so far whenever I've argued my opinions people have stopped their habits so I'm feeling a little confident in my ability to reduce the hostility of the FE community as a whole

If you find this attitude obnoxious, condescending, or arrogant, check your assumptions. We're not asking you to genuflect to us — in fact, most of us would love nothing more than to deal with you as an equal and welcome you into our culture, if you put in the effort required to make that possible. But it's simply not efficient for us to try to help people who are not willing to help themselves. It's OK to be ignorant; it's not OK to play stupid.

If you want people to act a certain way, start by respecting other people and guiding them to how they should act. Maybe start by actually posting the various paragraphs I'm quoting (or just linking to the page or whatever) so that people at least understand the completely new environment they are throwing themselves into. You can't expect people to adapt immediately, especially not without even telling them what to expect, or they'll have no idea HOW to adapt. People are a lot easier to work with once they understand the situation they're in. If you just throw hostility at them, they'll think you're just being rude without any sort of reason and being cruelly turned away. If, even after explaining, they don't understand, maybe try once more, and THEN feel free to ridicule them, because we are all humans too and few of us have the patience to deal with stubborn idiots who just want profit without work.

Meh, I think I said enough on the matter. Maybe one or two people will change their attitudes. Maybe not. Maybe I'll get warned. But I tried, so I have no regrets.

tl;dr we should make a small effort to help welcome noobs into the new environment which will make it easier for them to adapt and thus make it easier for the "veterans and regulars" to accept them

I say first we pin something that explains the general nature of hacking and the hacking forums. Pin it, of course, and if someone doesn't seem to understand, link them to it. Include a short summary of main points in said topic, as well as a more detailed explanation in case that doesn't suffice.

[spoiler=Luffy Never Gets Tired of Ranting. Ever.]New hackers often keep to themselves, stay away from FE forums, or don't learn the things they need to because they are pushed away by hackers, or are too scared to ask them questions in the first place. Some adapt and are able to move on, but should we really be filtering out people like this when Fire Emblem still doesn't have the same great (at least in size) fan-base that it once did? I don't think so: we should help everyone we can, and if people aren't helping themselves, we teach them how to help themselves before getting mad at them. If they STILL aren't putting in the effort, then we scold them. But not everyone is so smart that they can be thrown into a new environment such as one of the hacking community and just learn how it works. This goes for many communities.

I'm not really a regular on this forum I mainly visit because I have to so I don't think I'm best suited to make said topic. Someone who can be kind, insightful, concise (again, not me), welcoming, yet not a pushover, should, in my opinion, take the lead in helping these people before it gets any later. There are already lots of hackers that have tried to hack and quit or something else. I don't think we can afford to lose anymore: the games we are hacking are edging on 10 years old.

But yeah, feel free to discuss the issue or disagree with my opinions/suggestions here. Just because I have come to this conclusion after lots of thinking, does not mean it is right: it simply means I've thought a lot about it. I would like to note, however, that I meet some people via youtube and e-mail that ask me hacking questions and shiver at the mention of FE communities, or at least don't feel welcomed. And on a more personal note, my own forum is not exactly exempt from that reputation...

Edited July 12, 2012 by Strawhat Luffy

[BoxMulder]

except you know what to search for and what topics might have the answer. You already know what you're looking for and you know what the answer is, so it's easier for you. From the perspective of the "newbie", i.e. someone who doesn't know what to do or even what they might be looking for, the amount of topics that possibly answer it and possible search terms is overwhelming and the amount of time and work it takes to go through that is better spent taking 30 seconds to make a question and have someone answer it precisely in about the same time, 30 seconds. When you see "script converter", well, you made it so you know what it does, but that doesn't mean Arim does. Could he figure it out and learn a little more on his own? Yes. Is there any real point in scolding him? Not really, he put in a respectable amount of effort and gave up when he couldn't find the answer because continuing on would be a waste of time.

If he really did do an honest attempt to search for it, and couldn't find it, then maybe that's revealing a problem with how the forum's organized. In that case, he should have posted "Hey guys, I tried looking for some information on XYZ and I tried search for ABC and found these topics, but none of them had what I needed!" That tells us at least that maybe our topics are poorly named or the content is poorly written. Oops! At least with this sort of post, we can improve the content of the fourm so that in the future less people will waste time. Not posting this just means more newbies will encounter the exact same problem. Teach a man to fish and all that.

There is a difference in trying to learn something that is well-known and can be taught easily versus something that... isn't. He's put out effort to try to learn, but failed. People have their limitations, but that doesn't mean you have to look down on everyone who's limitations are less than your own. And why should someone bother "re-inventing the wheel", or rather, find out how it's done themselves, if they can just ask and learn much quicker? They're still learning either way, one is just more a efficient way because you're getting a direct answer.

That may be true, but there is a difference to being told the answer to a problem and solving it yourself. The problem solving process is often much more important than the result. And for hacking, problem solving is a critical skill; if someone posts a question without doing any work it makes it look like they don't have any problem solving skills, and it creates negative expectations (maybe he'll do it again in the future.)

1) He spent his time. "But if he spent his time, he would have found it" is a moot argument: see above regarding different perspectives, knowing what one is searching for/looking for, knowing what terms to use, etc.; he said he spent his time and spending a lot of time trying to find the answer to something somebody else already knows the answer to or somebody else knows where to find the answer to is, simply put, a waste of time.

He didn't show anything to prove he spent is time:

"Has anyone ever remade the animation before? It'd be pretty helpful."

Possible posts: "I tried looking for one on Youtube, but I didn't find any." "I looked through the recent hack topics but no one has one." If someone remade the animation, you'd think they'd show it off somewhere.

"Or if there isn't one, is there a way to see the script from inside the game?"

Again, no indication of work. "I looked through Nintenlord's utilities but I didn't find anything that could help!" Oops, I guess FEditor Adv would have been more useful. But this sort of post at least indicates he looks somewhere.

2) What's the point in the hacking questions forum, are people only supposed to ever ask new questions? If so, then this is a shitty excuse for a questions forum, IMO. People have their own unique situations and you can't try to answer everyone by linking to a similar topic or thread. Regardless, I'd like to see an animation topic that focused on this same issue of wanting to recreate an existing animation and wanting the proper positionings and timings, as a question, because there should at least be one similar thread by your logic of "this question topic isn't warranted".

Again, if he said "I tried looking for some resources to do this by searching XYZ" then maybe that would have made people realize, hey, that sort of information isn't as easily accessible as we thought! If you just go "hey how do I do XYZ" and someone goes "oh just look at this link" it gives the impression to people reading the post that finding information about XYZ is easy! After all, the guy that responded found it so easily! (No it turns out it was just experience.) In the future the forum might be reorganized so that this sort of information is easier to locate.

[That One Guy]

AKA a long jumbled rant about what I think on how we confront new hackers and how it's not helping the FE community in general

Ignore the stuff about me getting warned, I made it have its own topic now so it *shouldn't* get any complaints

[spoiler=Wall of Text, You were Warned]

I'm pretty close... but no Xeld and NL have helped me multiple times

except you know what to search for and what topics might have the answer. You already know what you're looking for and you know what the answer is, so it's easier for you. From the perspective of the "newbie", i.e. someone who doesn't know what to do or even what they might be looking for, the amount of topics that possibly answer it and possible search terms is overwhelming and the amount of time and work it takes to go through that is better spent taking 30 seconds to make a question and have someone answer it precisely in about the same time, 30 seconds. When you see "script converter", well, you made it so you know what it does, but that doesn't mean Arim does. Could he figure it out and learn a little more on his own? Yes. Is there any real point in scolding him? Not really, he put in a respectable amount of effort and gave up when he couldn't find the answer because continuing on would be a waste of time.

There is a difference in trying to learn something that is well-known and can be taught easily versus something that... isn't. He's put out effort to try to learn, but failed. People have their limitations, but that doesn't mean you have to look down on everyone who's limitations are less than your own. And why should someone bother "re-inventing the wheel", or rather, find out how it's done themselves, if they can just ask and learn much quicker? They're still learning either way, one is just more a efficient way because you're getting a direct answer.

There are exceptions to this, such as pinned topics and the very basics, e.g. Nightmare, or for that matter any of the basics that are covered in the Ultimate Tutorial IMO (because the point of that was to limit questions like these), but I have never heard this exact question before and while I *happen* to know about BwdYeti's GIFs and the converter which I just found out about recently, most other hackers I know don't. Don't go assuming things are obvious just because they're obvious for YOU. Put things into perspective.

Cam, you're just hard on new hackers, so I feel like trying to explain why this is a very poor approach to the matter isn't going to help, but I'll briefly do so anyway because I'm feeling stubborn:

1) He spent his time. "But if he spent his time, he would have found it" is a moot argument: see above regarding different perspectives, knowing what one is searching for/looking for, knowing what terms to use, etc.; he said he spent his time and spending a lot of time trying to find the answer to something somebody else already knows the answer to or somebody else knows where to find the answer to is, simply put, a waste of time.

2) What's the point in the hacking questions forum, are people only supposed to ever ask new questions? If so, then this is a shitty excuse for a questions forum, IMO. People have their own unique situations and you can't try to answer everyone by linking to a similar topic or thread. Regardless, I'd like to see an animation topic that focused on this same issue of wanting to recreate an existing animation and wanting the proper positionings and timings, as a question, because there should at least be one similar thread by your logic of "this question topic isn't warranted".

no, no, you need to ask in the Hacking Questions forum. That, Arim, is a silly mistake.

Yes, no; you put in some effort, and if it doesn't work out, you can ask a question knowing that you're not just being lazy or an idiot. Depending on the complexity of the issue, you should put in various amounts of effort--something like this would probably take 5-10 minutes to find the answer, whereas something as simple as getting FEditor Adv to load or how to insert map sprites should take less than a minute. If you put in whatever effort you think would be required to find the answer given that harder questions generally have answers that are harder to find, then *most* people will at least respect you enough to answer your question.

But again, it's not welcoming to new hackers when they get scolded for asking questions and trying to learn. It's things like these that keep a lot of hackers off forums and it doesn't help the Fire Emblem community as a whole when newbs aren't around because if you want an active community, you NEED those newbs. They post way more than most intelligent members, they tend to have more ideas, and can dedicate more time to making the site active. Start by welcoming them and helping them while nicely explaining the PROPER way to go about things because believe it or not, it takes some intelligence to do research, which is why they constantly teach it in schools and the smarter ones always complain about how stupid it is to have to learn how to do research.

You guys, can, of course, ignore my suggestion, but I still am going to do everything I can, at least, to help new hackers. That doesn't mean babying them, that means being welcoming and guiding them in the right direction. You would be surprised how many hackers I find on youtube and via e-mail who hack but never share their stuff because they're practically scared of doing so thanks to the FE community's reputation as a whole

And if I get banned for arguing my opinion on how people should go about asking and answering questions in order to benefit the FE community, then my point is only being proved more-so. It's not as bad as I make it seem to be, but it's still relatively bad. *shrug*

EDIT:

This is probably not the best example to be trying to change hackers' hostility because Arim is extremely nice and lets people push him around, and he honestly could have looked a little harder, this is really a silly approach in that, as explained before, being hostile only sends people away and gives them the message that they aren't welcomed, and most of the time doesn't change their personality or behavior because most people don't respond well to hostility.

The fact that the intention to be rude isn't there doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. A silly statement, IMO.

Between plenty of able people who can answer questions and the small amount of time it takes to answer these, I don't see the problem: it's not like this forum gets so many questions a day that we can't keep up and we actually have to filter them. I've helped people in 10 seconds by just saying "google Ultimate Tutorial, check the table of contents" and they thanked me because they didn't know it existed in the first place and after that they were smart enough to answer the question on their own. I doubt anyone gets off their laptop feeling stressed after the 1-2 questions a week they answer unless you're me because I'm stupid enough to make all my contact details public and get 10 a week.

There also aren't many "winner" questions either. There's little reason to stop the couple questions that do come in and reduce it to even less questions. I don't know why you guys don't welcome questions: they help people learn, encourage people to hack more, you feel good knowing you help someone (or at least, I'd like to think you do) and it increases activity on whatever forum you're answering your question.

And it's not just hackers that are like this. This is a problem all over the internet, but no one stands up for it because it's so much easier not to. The people who aren't welcomed simply stay away, and it sucks because most of them are pretty cool people AFAIC (minus the occasional ACTUAL idiot who is just hopeless). And so far whenever I've argued my opinions people have stopped their habits so I'm feeling a little confident in my ability to reduce the hostility of the FE community as a whole

If you want people to act a certain way, start by respecting other people and guiding them to how they should act. Maybe start by actually posting the various paragraphs I'm quoting (or just linking to the page or whatever) so that people at least understand the completely new environment they are throwing themselves into. You can't expect people to adapt immediately, especially not without even telling them what to expect, or they'll have no idea HOW to adapt. People are a lot easier to work with once they understand the situation they're in. If you just throw hostility at them, they'll think you're just being rude without any sort of reason and being cruelly turned away. If, even after explaining, they don't understand, maybe try once more, and THEN feel free to ridicule them, because we are all humans too and few of us have the patience to deal with stubborn idiots who just want profit without work.

Meh, I think I said enough on the matter. Maybe one or two people will change their attitudes. Maybe not. Maybe I'll get warned. But I tried, so I have no regrets.

tl;dr we should make a small effort to help welcome noobs into the new environment which will make it easier for them to adapt and thus make it easier for the "veterans and regulars" to accept them

I say first we pin something that explains the general nature of hacking and the hacking forums. Pin it, of course, and if someone doesn't seem to understand, link them to it. Include a short summary of main points in said topic, as well as a more detailed explanation in case that doesn't suffice.

[spoiler=Luffy Never Gets Tired of Ranting. Ever.]New hackers often keep to themselves, stay away from FE forums, or don't learn the things they need to because they are pushed away by hackers, or are too scared to ask them questions in the first place. Some adapt and are able to move on, but should we really be filtering out people like this when Fire Emblem still doesn't have the same great (at least in size) fan-base that it once did? I don't think so: we should help everyone we can, and if people aren't helping themselves, we teach them how to help themselves before getting mad at them. If they STILL aren't putting in the effort, then we scold them. But not everyone is so smart that they can be thrown into a new environment such as one of the hacking community and just learn how it works. This goes for many communities.

I'm not really a regular on this forum I mainly visit because I have to so I don't think I'm best suited to make said topic. Someone who can be kind, insightful, concise (again, not me), welcoming, yet not a pushover, should, in my opinion, take the lead in helping these people before it gets any later. There are already lots of hackers that have tried to hack and quit or something else. I don't think we can afford to lose anymore: the games we are hacking are edging on 10 years old.

But yeah, feel free to discuss the issue or disagree with my opinions/suggestions here. Just because I have come to this conclusion after lots of thinking, does not mean it is right: it simply means I've thought a lot about it. I would like to note, however, that I meet some people via youtube and e-mail that ask me hacking questions and shiver at the mention of FE communities, or at least don't feel welcomed. And on a more personal note, my own forum is not exactly exempt from that reputation...

Ye gods, it's about time someone posted about this. For this, I salute you Blazer. I wholeheartedly agree with someone pinning a topic explaining some of the basics SOMEWHERE. I don't know where, but somewhere the basics should be pinned for those who want to get started in hacking, but are semi-afraid of getting ribbed on. I myself want to get into hacking but face two issues: Next to no knowledge, and the problem of that NO FREAKING PROGRAMS ARE DESIGNED TO WORK FOR MACS. ..Also Wine is annoying to work with to say the least.

[CT075]

tl;dr

on a more serious note for the incident you're referring to the same result came up repeatedly for

Frame timings

Scripy converting

Script ripping

Feditor scripts

Animation frame timings

at least one or two of which should have come up somewhere

[WYAN]

how can you expect someone that isn't experienced to be as good at something that you know how to do? Are we going to make fun of third graders for not knowing how to multiply?

Blazer's ultimate tutorial helped a lot when I was trying to learn how to hack. Maybe if people made more generalized tutorials like that, and there was just a thread that included these as an easily accessible resource for noob hackers, such as myself, then you could avoid situations like this, which is completely unnecessary.

[Arim]

I searched "Fire Emblem Swordmaster Animation Script".

It showed a lot of different results, but none of which were relevant to what I needed. Though yeah, I was looking in the wrong place, but at the same time. I didn't know where the right place was.

EDIT: It probably SHOWED what I needed, but I just couldn't tell if that was it or not. And the places that I looked weren't relevant to it.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Arim

[Crimson Red]

I wouldn't make that long of a rant if it were just a one-time issue

there are plenty of others out there

already 2 other relatively new hackers (no offense) have spoken up. I even got a PM from someone else. I've gotten similar remarks from other people on Skype, through e-mail, and youtube.

You guys COULD not care and say it doesn't matter, in which case this is all moot. But if you guys do care about the forums and the part of the hacking community that doesn't consist of experienced people etc., then some change should, according to my thoughts, probably happen. *shrug*

[CT075]

why can't you new people be more like jubbs or agro

neither of them asked stupid questions when they started

[Chocolate Kitty]

if you want to have a pity party about how difficult life on the internet is go back to FES

blazer grow the fuck up and get some balls, why are you defending this issue when it's pure laziness on the noob's part?

did you actually search?

really?

why would you search for a swordmaster script when what you're looking for is an animation script, search that

did you search more than once?

did you fucking try to figure it out

really?

i'm sick and tired of people using "i'm new" as an excuse

we were all new

we did our best to figure it out

why?

because we had to

and now the information is there

so go get it yourself, it's not like it's hidden behind a password locked door

tl; dr;

try for once, it'll give you fantastic results

[WYAN]

I mean, you're telling him not to be a bitch on the internet. How is that any different from you being a raging asshole? You're a fucking pussy ass cat, and people are trying to have a mature discussion, and you come in here and try to act tough. People can be bad at stuff, others can be better. Why does it matter how good they are from the start? YOU ARE BRAGGING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HACK A VIDEO GAME. CONGRADUFUCKINGLATIONS. Unless you go and get a job in the real world where you use this knowledge, why not try and make it FUN AND ENJOYABLE FOR EVERYONE.

Instead of saying "you idiot, why didn't you check here and do work yourself!" Try to be encouraging. I know, you're probably the fat kid that gets picked on irl so you use the internet to vent your real problems at people you will never meet. It's sad really. How about we try and be mature now?

Also, Cam. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Based God

[Nanami Touko]

I know, you're probably the fat kid that gets picked on irl so you use the internet to vent your real problems at people you will never meet. It's sad really. How about we try and be mature now?

> ask someone to be mature whilst immaturely insulting them in the same sentence.

It doesn't work, man.

[CT075]

YOU ARE BRAGGING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HACK A VIDEO GAME. CONGRADUFUCKINGLATIONS.

you're arguing about it

congradufuckinglations

Also, Cam. There is no such thing as a stupid question.

except of course the stupid ones

[WYAN]

Seph, if you read it, after saying that, I said "let's be mature NOW."

Please, read over everything before commenting

And, if you think there are stupid questions, then you really are a lost cause, as there is no convincing you to be a decent human being.

And I'm arguing about it, because you won't give people a chance. That's conceited as fuck.

kbai you fail.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Based God

[CT075]

"fuck you"

"let's be mature now"

uh huh

sure

you and your hugbox can kindly shut up tyvm

no you're arguing about it because i want people to look for stuff themselves

you're arguing because i really can't be bothered to spoonfeed people

Edited July 13, 2012 by Camtech

[Nanami Touko]

You're a pretty good troll. Keep on truckin'.

[fuzz94]

why can't you new people be more like jubbs or agro

neither of them asked stupid questions when they started

I didn't ask TO many stupid questions at first

Honestly it takes. More than one very specific search to find stuff. Although things could be more organized in some places. I feel like maybe a locked and pinned topic about some general ROM Hacking standards about searching before asking about easy to find stuff.

Just an opinion

[WYAN]

Oh yeah, I'm such a troll. If I was a troll, I'd be commenting on how bad of a hack Dicks of Faggots is.

[CT075]

'let's be mature'

oh man my gut

i can't breathe too much laughter

[Chocolate Kitty]

I mean, you're telling him not to be a bitch on the internet.

Never said that once, but okay.

How is that any different from you being a raging asshole?

Uh, okay.

You're a fucking pussy ass cat,

you're lil b, a wack ass rapper who rap about wonton soup

and people are trying to have a mature discussion, and you come in here and try to act tough.

...again, okay

People can be bad at stuff, others can be better. Why does it matter how good they are from the start?

You completely missed the point of that part of the post

YOU ARE BRAGGING ABOUT BEING ABLE TO HACK A VIDEO GAME. CONGRADUFUCKINGLATIONS.

you're arguing about it

congradufuckinglations

Unless you go and get a job in the real world where you use this knowledge, why not try and make it FUN AND ENJOYABLE FOR EVERYONE.

having to ask for everything is now fun? i thought it was more fun figuring it out on your own

Instead of saying "you idiot, why didn't you check here and do work yourself!"

you idiot I never insulted, and yes, try looking around to find an answer yourself is generally how things work in the world, you aren't spoonfed.

i'm going to assume you're still breastfed

Try to be encouraging.

been there, done that

I know, you're probably the fat kid that gets picked on irl so you use the internet to vent your real problems at people you will never meet.

*sniff* you really got me man, that's so me ; n ;

It's sad really. How about we try and be mature now?

Oh yeah, I'm such a troll. If I was a troll, I'd be commenting on how bad of a hack Dicks of Faggots is.

maturity/staying on topic

[Celice]

already 2 other relatively new hackers (no offense) have spoken up. I even got a PM from someone else. I've gotten similar remarks from other people on Skype, through e-mail, and youtube.

I've gotten bunches of remarks like this too from people, not just about romhacking, but about the forums in general. But especially about select members in the romhacking section--people really dislike the attitudes they see constantly. It's like a foul odor to these people, and they just end up staying away.

edit: oh look, speak of the devil

Edited July 13, 2012 by Celice

[WYAN]

Asking questions is one of the best ways to learn. I'm positive that none of you have gotten as far as you have in hacking without asking a question. Rationality is a gift, so please, be rational. NOT arrogant assholes that think they rule the internet and won't let people that aren't on their level of hacking ask questions. It's dumb, and gives you a bad rep.

[Agro]

why can't you new people be more like jubbs or agro

neither of them asked stupid questions when they started

To be fair, I already knew most of what I was doing by the time I started asking questions, so... I've been "hacking" on and off for quite a while now... by rights I should be wtfamazing but evidently, I'm not. Regardless, I think we should take it upon ourselves to, at the very least, make sure that people don't get a hard time for asking silly questions.

[WYAN]

"Blazer, grow the fuck up and get some balls"

How is that not calling him a bitch? Fuckin' moron. If Blazer wants to help us "noobs" then let him. Don't be assholes. Case, and point.

[Crimson Red]

uh, ignoring the nigga...

Honestly it takes. More than one very specific search to find stuff. Although things could be more organized in some places. I feel like maybe a locked and pinned topic about some general ROM Hacking standards about searching before asking about easy to find stuff.

Just an opinion

It's so much easier to find stuff once you're experienced but even then it's not super easy. Utilities and resources are spread all over the internet throughout various hacking topics etc...

why can't you new people be more like jubbs or agro

neither of them asked stupid questions when they started

Because NOT EVERYONE IS THAT SMART. In my opinion, if you're going to be on a public internet forum, you should stop trying to make people live up to the same standards as you. Because the truth is, the majority of people AREN'T as smart as you. Not everyone is able to 'figure it out on their own' but that doesn't mean that they don't have their worth and well, aren't worth helping. If you just shut them up right away they will definitely never get anywhere unless they are a freak who enjoys being told to essentially be smarter and instantly adapt to an environment they aren't used to.

The same could be said of me to some extent, yeah, I'm expecting you guys to live up to my standards of tolerance. Except this is a public place and unless SF truly is a forum that prides itself on being unwelcoming to noobs, then it shouldn't act like one: if it does, then I sincerely apologize for trying to change the forum as I never knew that this was a place for people who can live up to the expectations of the veteran members only--I thought it was a place anyone could get hacking help. -_-

if you want to have a pity party about how difficult life on the internet is go back to FES

blazer grow the fuck up and get some balls, why are you defending this issue when it's pure laziness on the noob's part?

did you actually search?

lol, trying to insult me, my forum, and my body. then blaming everything on the "noob" for not being able to do everything perfectly despite putting in effort and trying their best to adapt to a new environment. well, with this kind of an intro to your post I can only imagine what the rest includes; if you're going to try to state an opinion, please do it in a more... serious or mature way, unless you consider this mature in which case my jaw is going to need to be readjusted

that's all I got for now...

[Chocolate Kitty]

"Blazer, grow the fuck up and get some balls"

How is that not calling him a bitch? Fuckin' moron. If Blazer wants to help us "noobs" then let him. Don't be assholes. Case, and point.

blazer is now arim

okay

i'll leave you to go rap to caillou's theme

again >maturity