Hawk King Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) L'arachel way up. She is a late 5th early 6th round pick. You want a hammerene bot. Lute down. She cant reach warp in time for Chapter 16, unless you are getting bad TCs. Switch Cormag and Lute. Cormag is the Ephriam route version of Tana, and he is waaaay better than Tana. Joshua and Syrene are 7th rounders, they are worse than Dozla. Joshua just never does anything special. He is the same as Eirika on her route, and Idk about Ephriam route. Syrene is useless as long as you have a warper. And if you failed to draft a warper you did something very wrong. With the 10/5 rule for Ewan, He is definitely > Knoll. Making him a mage knight is useless though because Chapter 14 is the last time we need canto mounts, and I doubt he can get 5 LV ups in 2 turns of Chapter 13. Edited August 9, 2012 by Hawk King Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) So basically, it's not a question of IF Saleh can get Warp, it's WHEN he gets it. Which chapters benefit the most from Warp use, and can Saleh achieve the staff rank in time to use it there? Establish this, and you can determine whether Saleh's potential for Warp is much of a benefit or a waste of time, especially if his combat would benefit instead. Yeah, getting Saleh to Warp in drafts can be a bit annoying if you're not Horace and/or don't have the right team. Still, being able to ORKO Caellach with Excalibur, and solo the left side of the desert, that's just...so good. Rennac has Chapter 15 combat (which he's not that bad at), as well as lighting up Riev in Chapter 19. He can also disable traps in Chapter 18. Well, isn't his Chapter 15 prowess more about how he can steal the annoying items off of both of the bosses? Not to mention desert utility (he can scrounge up Warp while he's taking on Caellach), because that RNG thing never seems to work for me. Hero has the same movement as great knight. Kyle/Forde generally have mediocre stats if promoted around then, so Gilliam is a better candidiate for the crest. Franz obviously moreso but Gilliam is more useful for a team with a weak earlygame which Franz stomps. Great Knight has higher movement penalties and Kyle/Forde can usually end up being pretty good if you promote them after Chapter 9, or if they are around 12ish and slightly blessed, then after Chapter 8 works too. Edited August 9, 2012 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Dropping a Mage Knight Ewan down south so he can kill enemies with 1-2 range is something Rennac cant do though. Rennac never has good 1-2 range so even if he can tank mages, hes going to have to pick them off 1 by 1 in PP, costing turns possibly. Ive used both and while Rennac @ Kiling Edge is certainly nice ocasionally in player phase, he tended to be lackluster aside from the desert. Disarming traps is something that pales in comparison (and is rarely useful when you can just warp units up and skip them completely) to taking down eggs in that chapter with higher move. Lets not forget he has canto and can ferry stuff. And can have access to excalibur. Also, 10/13/1 Ewan is a better estimate for desert, considering he gets free training in chapter 14 getting the energy ring. Ewan @ pure water and a chest key can grab it without any problems whatsoever in a reasonable timeframe and he gets a bunch of CEXP there. If Ewan isnt being dropped south, he can take care of the pegs by sitting on a forest and they will have trouble even hitting him. Thanks to his 1-2 range, he can help speed up the chapter that way too. So, Ewan can get an Energy Ring. Has 1-2 range so superior enemy phase offense despite his defenses and can contribute in better ways in chapter 18. How is Rennac > Ewan? I'm positive that he's not killing off the rest of that room in one round; according to his averages, he's taking at least one PP and EP to kill stuff; maybe more, if his Magic growth isn't up to par. IIRC, there's some knight reinforcements that show up, so he'll also have to dodge them too, since they are a 2HKO on him at the tune of 50ish%. I'm assuming you're using someone else to draw the cav reinforcements. Drafted Rennac can open the nearby door before swiping Hammerne (allowing something better to open the double doors). He can also clean up armors (like the one in his room) thanks to insta-Armorslayer. If you're dead-set on leveling him, and don't mind wasting stuff, slap a Lancereaver on him and have him run towards the cavs. I prefer having him on armor clean-up duty, for obvious reasons. IMO, directly helping to complete a chapter faster > nice stat booster. You have an odd idea of "trouble hitting someone" - I've seen far too many 35-ish hits connect (I think I make it a special point to complain about it in drafts), and Ewan's in trouble if a Steel Lance connects. Edited August 9, 2012 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 lute can have warp by chapter 16 easily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) I'm positive that he's not killing off the rest of that room in one round; according to his averages, he's taking at least one PP and EP to kill stuff; maybe more, if his Magic growth isn't up to par. IIRC, there's some knight reinforcements that show up, so he'll also have to dodge them too, since they are a 2HKO on him at the tune of 50ish%. I'm assuming you're using someone else to draw the cav reinforcements. Drafted Rennac can open the nearby door before swiping Hammerne (allowing something better to open the double doors). He can also clean up armors (like the one in his room) thanks to insta-Armorslayer. If you're dead-set on leveling him, and don't mind wasting stuff, slap a Lancereaver on him and have him run towards the cavs. I prefer having him on armor clean-up duty, for obvious reasons. IMO, directly helping to complete a chapter faster > nice stat booster. You have an odd idea of "trouble hitting someone" - I've seen far too many 35-ish hits connect (I think I make it a special point to complain about it in drafts), and Ewan's in trouble if a Steel Lance connects. He is killing them off in one round, Im pretty sure since Ive done it. If not, he has a lot of turns to do so. the map takes 8 turns with secret shop. And the cavaliers dont reach him before then. NPC Rennac is the same as drafted rennac since he opens the door and gets Hammerne anyway. Theres no benefit to drafting him in the chapter. Hes not helping beat the chapter faster at all, since its always 8 turns with secret shop or 7 without. Pure water Ewan has a lot of res, so the mages wont even touch him. Remember, hes going to be 10/5 to 10/7 by then due to the 10/5 rule. The armors dont even move and he can just grab the energy ring safely in the last turn, avoiding the longbow archers completely. As for your last point, hes sitting on a forest. You'd be surprised at how bad the hitrates can get specially against the pegknights. Edited August 9, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toothache Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 lute can have warp by chapter 16 easily Sure, but what's the ETA for Saleh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Saleh easily gets to warp in time as long as Tethys is in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 Hero has the same movement as great knight. Better move over forests, deserts, mountains, rivers. Kyle/Forde generally have mediocre stats if promoted around then, so Gilliam is a better candidiate for the crest. You mean "Gilliam is a steaming pile of ass if we don't promote him". It has nothing to do with Kyle and Forde and everything to do with the fact that Gilliam is useless without the Crest: which is not a point in his favour. Franz obviously moreso but Gilliam is more useful for a team with a weak earlygame which Franz stomps. So you admit that he's not useful if you have Franz? Thanks, that's all I needed. Saleh easily gets to warp in time as long as Tethys is in play. I would like to imagine that Tethys has better things to do than spam out heals for WEXP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) gilliams only redeeming qualities are solid early game, what with helping smash walls in chapter 3, orko'ing monsters in chapter 4, and then IF you don;t have franz, he's the next best thing to have in chapter 8, and great knight gilliam is pretty solid in the chapter 9 eirika route, better than kyle/forde are anyway. He's pretty worthless if you have Franz, and past chapter 12ish. Edited August 9, 2012 by General Horace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 He is killing them off in one round, Im pretty sure since Ive done it. If not, he has a lot of turns to do so. the map takes 8 turns with secret shop. And the cavaliers dont reach him before then. NPC Rennac is the same as drafted rennac since he opens the door and gets Hammerne anyway. Theres no benefit to drafting him in the chapter. Hes not helping beat the chapter faster at all, since its always 8 turns with secret shop or 7 without. Pure water Ewan has a lot of res, so the mages wont even touch him. Remember, hes going to be 10/5 to 10/7 by then due to the 10/5 rule. The armors dont even move and he can just grab the energy ring safely in the last turn, avoiding the longbow archers completely. As for your last point, hes sitting on a forest. You'd be surprised at how bad the hitrates can get specially against the pegknights. *sighs* Ewan doesn't reach the necessary speed to double the slowest mages until 10/7, and doesn't have the juice to do so with Thunder until 10/12 (Elfire means that he's not doubling them, period). Ewan should be able to double the shamans right off the bat, but needs to have his 10/13 magic to ORKO - with Elfire (he'll double the slower ones at that level, too. . .but the faster ones will require his 10/15 speed). If this were the "tier-units-based-off-of-the-crazy-stats-I-got" thread, then I can plug a draft where the RNG gave me the finger the entire time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 If you draft Franz dont draft Gilliam. They both want the Ch 7 Knight crest. After Franz, Gilliam is the best choice for the Ch 7 Knight crest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNG Princess Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Why is Joshua so low? ;A; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) He's swordlocked and his combat is pretty terrible without the Killing Edge (which I would say Eirika wants more). He's also a foot unit that is pretty much only for combat (unless you went Assassin for whatever reason), and I already said why his combat is bad. A lack of utility and bad combat don't make a good unit. Also, why is L'Arachel so low? It's not too hard for her to get to Warp in time, and she gets to Mage Knight faster than Ewan does. It's pretty tough for Ewan to get to Warp also. Edited August 10, 2012 by Lucina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Ugh, eclipse, I did it the first time with a terrible Ewan over the span of 8 turns. I just deployed undrafted Franz to trade around a vulnerary to him when neccesary and the guiding ring so he could promote. He CAN get the energy ring in 8 turns, rennac cant due to his starting positiong. An energy ring>Rennac because it gives 1 more warp range. And lets not go into the fact that solo'ing that room for the energy ring saves turns in its own way since it allows your other drafted units to charge the other place to the throne...Anyway, ive drafted both, ewan like 3 times and 2 with rennac. Rennac was always awful aside from getting warp, which he can already do undrafted. And ewan, even the time he was meh, was very useful in 14, 15 (against the pegs) and in 18 due to his high move. Edited August 10, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Ugh, eclipse, I did it the first time with a terrible Ewan over the span of 8 turns. I just deployed undrafted Franz to trade around a vulnerary to him when neccesary and the guiding ring so he could promote. He CAN get the energy ring in 8 turns, rennac cant due to his starting positiong. An energy ring>Rennac because it gives 1 more warp range. And lets not go into the fact that solo'ing that room for the energy ring saves turns in its own way since it allows your other drafted units to charge the other place to the throne...Anyway, ive drafted both, ewan like 3 times and 2 with rennac. Rennac was always awful aside from getting warp, which he can already do undrafted. And ewan, even the time he was meh, was very useful in 14, 15 (against the pegs) and in 18 due to his high move. Your point was that Ewan was good enough to one-round the mages/shamans, which I disagreed with, complete with numbers. Have you read what I do when I draft either of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 On Joshua, He sucks. I think he should be even lower than he is. On Ewan vs Rennac, With the 10/5 rule, as opposed to 10/1, Ewan is greatly improved. Like PKL said, he can get the energy ring by himself which is important for freeing up your other units. Ewan has 1-2 range, and can go Summoner for Phantoms which is honestly better than mage knight. Rennac's item finding is free, He really should be focing on getting items in Chp 15 so having him fight is actually a negative, Either promotion path you choose for Ewan, Rennac's range of attack is lower. Rennac is just a promoted Marissa who comes later and doesn't cost any turns. 10/5 Ewan is "Knoll 2.0". He make all the same contributions that Knoll does + gets us the very important energy ring. Ewan >> Rennac Oh, and he should be above Knoll, obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Joshua isn't that bad, he's got at least decent combat for 2-3 chapters with a steel sword. And routes. But yeah, he's really mediocre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk King Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 ^ Well regardless, L'arachel should be at the top of the 6th round, and Ewan should be above Knoll. Seriously, Knoll has ZERO advantages over Ewan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 Joshua can clear out the ch8 armor room and if nobody else on your team uses it he can take an early hero crest. Better than L'Arachel and Dozla at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) On Joshua, He sucks. I think he should be even lower than he is. On Ewan vs Rennac, With the 10/5 rule, as opposed to 10/1, Ewan is greatly improved. Like PKL said, he can get the energy ring by himself which is important for freeing up your other units. Ewan has 1-2 range, and can go Summoner for Phantoms which is honestly better than mage knight. It probably depends more on your specific needs, but I think in general Summoner is probably preferable. Rennac's item finding is free, He really should be focing on getting items in Chp 15 so having him fight is actually a negative, Either promotion path you choose for Ewan, Rennac's range of attack is lower. The point isn't that he'll be used as a serious combatant at the exclusion of him getting items, it's that him being able to fight makes it easier for him to get items since we don't need to have someone babysit him. After all, you take a penalty if he gets attacked. Oh, and he should be above Knoll, obviously. At minimum. Knoll, but also with the option to go Mage Knight, generally better combat (whatever that's worth), and apparently this Energy Ring. Joshua isn't that bad, he's got at least decent combat for 2-3 chapters with a steel sword. And routes. But yeah, he's really mediocre. I was under the impression he was a decent bosskiller. Who else is going to double Caellach? Edited August 10, 2012 by Anouleth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 It probably depends more on your specific needs, but I think in general Summoner is probably preferable. The point isn't that he'll be used as a serious combatant at the exclusion of him getting items, it's that him being able to fight makes it easier for him to get items since we don't need to have someone babysit him. After all, you take a penalty if he gets attacked. At minimum. Knoll, but also with the option to go Mage Knight, generally better combat (whatever that's worth), and apparently this Energy Ring. I was under the impression he was a decent bosskiller. Who else is going to double Caellach? BOsskilling isn't needed, aside from maybe tirado. But for Tirado, we have. GK!Gilliam Franz Garcia Ross Eirika herself Forde/Kyle(Mebbe) Ephraim(Mebbe) Maybe Nessie, if she's blessed and with SILVER. Maybe Colm, but if we say Colm, we can say Joshua too. And, by route split units become powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Caelech sucks to kill. Joshua needs Aldusomething to do serious damage though. Also only Garcia Franz Ross and Eirika kill Tirado effectively. Edited August 10, 2012 by Serious Bananas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 (edited) Vanessa would never be able to kill Tirado...ever, unless you are Knight of Titania. Same with Colm. Theres no way, even with armorslayer, that he could win against tirado. And forde kyle? Stop kidding yourself.<br><br>@Hawk king- ive never tried summoner ewan for fear of worse combat (dark magic sucks) is he really better?<br><br>@sharpy again- And you are also very wrong if you think bosskilling isnt neccesary. Caellach, valter, orson, Tirado, that guy in eph route ch10, riev, morva, lyon himself. All of them say HI Edited August 10, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 Vanessa would never be able to kill Tirado...ever, unless you are Knight of Titania. Same with Colm. Theres no way, even with armorslayer, that he could win against tirado. And forde kyle? Stop kidding yourself.<br><br>@Hawk king- ive never tried summoner ewan for fear of worse combat (dark magic sucks) is he really better?<br><br>@sharpy again- And you are also very wrong if you think bosskilling isnt neccesary. Caellach, valter, orson, Tirado, that guy in eph route ch10, riev, morva, lyon himself. All of them say HI Bosskilling can be accomplished by the first round/2nd round picks anyways. My point is, that Joshua isn't really special at doing anything in fe8 drafts aside from good combat with KEs and early promo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted August 10, 2012 Share Posted August 10, 2012 And I agree. I personally think joshua is one of the worst draftees. Simply because he forces one of: 1. Drafting Natasha, not always going to happen 2. Slowing down to recruit him. This is bad, because he never pays off for those turns. 3. Taking a Natasha penalty which is awful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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