CrashGordon94 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I'll see. I'll probably put one together for those who want to see it, but it won't be easily accessible. Don't want to spoil any of the secrets planned ;) Cool that you're considering, but what do you mean "not easily accessible"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I doubt it would really be that hard to make an FE9-style ASM routine that checks to see if Character X and Y are on the map on turn 1 and adds appropiate support points. you would be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenlord Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Dunno, making them into turn event and having the character check be in events themselves and doing the actual support incrementation in ASM could be relative simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) well like it'd be amazingly tedious (and probably inefficient) to check every single possible pair of support partners, especially later in the game when you have more of them wouldn't it? EDIT i mean what are you intending IFUF 0x1 char1 IFUF 0x1 char2 // means AND increaseSupport12 ENIF 0x1 IFUF 0x2 char2 IFUF 0x2 char3 increaseSupport23 ENIF 0x2 etc? and since ASMC doesn't take parameters (i don't think?) you'd have to either write a new routine for each pair or extract the common logic right? Edited August 28, 2012 by CT075 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Dunno, making them into turn event and having the character check be in events themselves and doing the actual support incrementation in ASM could be relative simple. That was what I was thinking of. Having such a function to increase support points could also let you do things like give support points for Talk conversations or for side objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 you would be wrong Programmers are wizards who fake their identities, after all. =P I also prefer FE7's support system (compared to FE6/8), it's better to support more characters and read their dialogue than support with only two characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowofchaos Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) Having such a function to increase support points could also let you do things like give support points for Talk conversations or for side objectives. That's simple enough, because all you have to do is write an ASM routine which looks at the player unit table, find the two with the right character IDs, and increase the number in memory by a set number of points (and limit it to the "support conversation can be activated" value) right on the Talk event itself. That's relatively easy because you know exactly which two to look for built into the routine because of the Talk event. What Cam is saying is that the FE9 setup you're talking about has to run through for every character and check for all the characters if they're on the map or not, as well as looking up where and how many points to add. Edited August 28, 2012 by shadowofchaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 you also have to take into account that ASMC doesn't accept parameters, so you'd have to write at least part of a new routine for every single possible pair, as well as extracting and generifying the common logic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanfaire Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) That does seem like a lot of work especially if it's something that must be done from the ground up. i think he's just talking about bad growths aka observer bias aka this guy really has no idea what he's talking about legitimate question: why does wolt still suck You need to tone down on the rudeness when you don't even know what you're talking about. And no, your question isn't any more legitimate because Wolt doesn't suck that bad compared to many other characters in the game that you can get. Edited August 28, 2012 by Fanfaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 i'm curious as to what exactly you meant by "evil growth system" considering how the levelup stat checking routine between all three gba games is exactly the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanfaire Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 It's for the horrid growths for quite a few characters, and Roy, and the barebones support system on top of no altered endings for anyone but Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Average growths actually are somewhat lower in FE6 than FE7, but the gap is really only about ~5%, if that, going up to 10% for RES (because everyone has awful resistance in FE6). AKA not a big deal. And given how much easier FE6 gets as you go along, I feel like perhaps the growths could be even lower for some characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanfaire Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) I'm not talking about averages for everyone. I'm talking about how some characters are ridiculous while many others just plan suffer for it and aren't even worth deploying. It was very bad in FE6 compared to the other entries, since their difficulties were toned down and sucking characters didn't suck as bad as the sucking characters in FE6, since the difference between a Good Character and a Bad Character was just too huge in FE6. You were better of gimping your unit count early on and just force feeding a select few. Edited August 28, 2012 by Fanfaire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 how is this any different than say FE12 wolt aside i found pretty much everyone to be usable observer bias is a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubby Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've used Wolt, so ha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 You were better of gimping your unit count early on and just force feeding a select few. that's true in most FEs for example in FE7 you're better off feeding most available Lyn Mode kills into Sain and early promoting him in FE8 there's little reason to use anyone but Seth in FE5 you want to sink everything into Leaf in FE4 Sigurd and Celice slaughter everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 You could argue you don't want to sink too much into Leaf, because he's actually not that great at combat as he could be and plus he's got low move and you'll just end up wanting a boss killer like Azel and then Warp bots. FE8, FE4, FE2, and presumably FE13 are the only games where you can even use everyone, simply because they have either grinding areas or the arena for 4 and give out enough exp for the whole party. FE2 is more of you can use everyone, but half of them are shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 (edited) You need to tone down on the rudeness when you don't even know what you're talking about. oooohhhh i so scared, what am i going to do oh wait see i knew exactly what i was talking about because every post after yours confirmed it And no, your question isn't any more legitimate because Wolt doesn't suck that bad compared to many other characters in the game that you can get. uhhhh did you see the screens? wolt 3HKOing fighters in chapter 1? on what is presumably normal mode? You could argue you don't want to sink too much into Leaf, because he's actually not that great at combat as he could be and plus he's got low move and you'll just end up wanting a boss killer like Azel and then Warp bots. hello manster, leaf wants speed ring and light sword and tons of EXP Edited August 28, 2012 by dondon151 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psych Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 hello manster, leaf wants speed ring and light sword and tons of EXP Yes, but after that his returns diminish greatly. Anyway, I should stop talking and going off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superluigi Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 But supports are there to be gotten, you know. It's really irritating the amount of time you have to put in on the GBA FEs to unlock them legitimately. IMO it ought to be reduced to a level that makes the text actually worth it :/ Although probably the best solution would involve it not even working the way that it does now, but damned if anyone's going to redesign and asm-ify that at this point I think I'll reduce the turns it takes to activate some supports, although I won't be implementing many supports until later on. Cool that you're considering, but what do you mean "not easily accessible"? I'll make a changelog available on demand during the beta testing; however it won't be posted on the OP for all to see. It would be no fun to spoil all the gameplay changes ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubby Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 I'll make a changelog available on demand during the beta testing; however it won't be posted on the OP for all to see. It would be no fun to spoil all the gameplay changes ;) Spoiler tags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superluigi Posted August 29, 2012 Author Share Posted August 29, 2012 Spoiler tags? True, but let's be honest, most people click on spoiler tags regardless. Once I've fully finished a chapter I'll post a change log, including the all the interesting changes from the original FE6 and the previous chapter build. I'll cut out all the non-interesting changes like re-pointing events and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jubby Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Alright :P I'm mostly just curious about some of the class changes and stuff, I don't want to ruin all the new stuff or anything :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanfaire Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Those games don't punish you anywhere near as hard as FE6 does if you don't only use the optimal units. oooohhhh i so scared, what am i going to do oh wait see i knew exactly what i was talking about because every post after yours confirmed it uhhhh did you see the screens? wolt 3HKOing fighters in chapter 1? on what is presumably normal mode? hello manster, leaf wants speed ring and light sword and tons of EXP Who cares if you're scared? You're wrong and being rude doesn't suddenly make you relevant. And again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Wolt isn't meant to solo anyone, he's a freaking archer that joins at the start of the game. No one in your team is a monster in Chapter 1 but Marcus and he falls off hard after the prepromotes gain a few levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 fe6 doesn't punish you that hard at all ;/ unless you're using a team like dorothy/wolt/bors it's not that hard at all to carry two or three sub-tier units if you know what you're doing the game is actually really easy near the end fuck, this game is beatable with 0% growths the fact that growths are slightly lower means nothing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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