WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Also, Shinori posting a list of questions was not scummy (consider town motivation vs scum motivation), nor was his vote switch from Elieson to Marth (consider that Elieson's post sandwiched in-between sounds genuine and again motivation for posting without explaining). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think your reasoning for your Elie vote was off. He's always had a group on him, it hasn't been "going nowhere". Can't tell if you just found your reasoning faulty or a realized you made a failed attempt at wagoning...? You haven't given anything to my feelings on the questions except for a "Back in the day..." type speel, so ##Vote: Shinori for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 General thoughts. Shinori is looking at me for my Meta, which is pretty much something that happened in Higurashi Mafia, where he analyzed me for my meta again. He was town there, so this isn't something I'm shocked by. However, stop looking at meta and look at post content. Next, WTF is THIS? Questions 1-2 are standard, and even 3 can be acceptable because we've already discussed vig, I really don't have a problem with, but the softclaim in Question 4 I do. Scummy as fuckall. I have more problems swallowing THIS SOFTCLAIM. Antitown-y as fuckall, but because you're not an "inexperienced player", I don't think that the latter was the softclaim I should be paying attention to. Next: Cam should try reading posts for quality, not quantity. When I said I thought Rein was town, it was because I thought his only half-assed post was well explained, and related to perception of the players in the game. He hasn't spent his time posting half about game mechanics and half about fuckwhatever else. Also, me making a post per player as opposed to a monstrous post encompassing say, 6 players, shouldn't make a fuck of a difference, because in the end, i'm still saying the exact same amount of information, I'm just organizing it differently. More: I'm set on WoMC being town, because of posts like this. Paperbrad, feel like contributing something? All you seem to be doing right now is telling Shinori that he's stupid for trying to seek information. Yes, I think he's scummy as day old dog shit for approaching it that way, but you seem awfully aggressive on someone trying to get town information when you're spending your time explaining why we shouldn't be trying to figure anything out. I'd like to see something town out of you. Town hiding behind a wall, keeping our mouths closed is about as anti-town as it gets. I'm not gonna sit by and get picked off by scum while you try to punish attempts at promoting informative and heavy discussion. It's almost like you're just trying to tell us to shut our mouths because it makes everyone look vague and mysterious, and quite frankly, I think it gives off a pretty strong stench of not wanting any contribution, and at the same time, telling us that it's exactly what we're supposed to do. I think you just tripped over your own feet there, Paperbrad. Except for this. This just seems off. ##Vote Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) @Mods, can we have an extension? No. Shinori (4) - Manix, Paperblade, Helios, Aere Elieson (3) - Bluedoom, CT075, Seoyeon Paperblade (2) - Weapons, Elieson Aere (1) - Shinori Bluedoom (1) - scorri San (1) - Strider Not Voting - San With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 18 hours, 15 minutes left in the day. Striderein has been prodded. Edited August 31, 2012 by Prims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 These? I have a ton of problems with this. First off, why would you ask for multiple town reads, and not multiple scum ones? Hell, I know Paper said this, but what's the point of even asking this in the first place? Second, wouldn't you want the vig to kill the person you think the scummiest is? And lastly, I don't think anybody has even come NEAR to mentioning a power role, so I don't even know why you would ask #4. I asked for multiple town reads and said "Who do you find most scummy at the moment?" Multiple town reads in no order doesn't quite help scum find out who you think is more town than the other. And "Most scummy" Has no limit on who you could say. You could list 6 people for being most scummy and then simplify it down to your top 3-4 of that list of people. I never asked for only one scum read from each player. In my opinion I see nothing wrong with asking that question or stating town reads, Have you been reading Aere or are you skimming? I already said that. One person may see X as scummy when the general town players see X as town? What if vig then shot X and fucked over town by killing a general consensus town player WHO FLIPPED TOWN? Thus the question. What's wrong about asking who a vig should be preffered to kill instead of freely firing? Yeah, but you'd want them to block some sort of power role. So, you're asking "who do you think is a powerole/scum?" which just gives mafia a better shot at killing one. Now the last part of your last quote and this quote both talk about the power role stuff. First off a town roleblocker would NOT WANT TO BLOCK A TOWN POWER ROLE. So saying that you want a town role blocker to block a Power role, is stupid. It's more of an idea of who do you want scum wise blocked. Both this question and the vig question are reaction tests to see what people say to the situation as well as start conversation. And I'm pretty sure there were plenty of reactions from these two questions alone. I had actually already answered most of your thoughts in previous posts. GEE I WONDER WHY I DIDN'T ANSWER YOUR POINTLESS POST RIGHT AWAY. Did you read any of my other posts or did you just skim them and ignore me talking about part of these questions already. Specifically the whole asking for town reads argument me paper and manix already had. Also, Aere, that vote was terrible. Is your only reasoning for voting me the questions, the Elie vote, and not responding to your suspicions to my questions? Do you have any other reasoning to believe I'm scum or are you just hopping onto a growing wagon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Weapons do you have a way that I could message you still? OR do you have to message first? Or is it used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 with absolutely no justification of the Marth vote. You didn't even say he was scummy in that post (and if you did say before the vote, please direct me to it) Thinking someone is scummy is generally implied by voting for them. You know RQS used to be something that happened here on SF A LOT. That doesn't mean any questions are automatically okay. I'm not considering that a scumtell, since I figure you could have reasons for wanting to know that stuff as town, but your argument is not good. It's almost like you're just trying to tell us to shut our mouths because it makes everyone look vague and mysterious, and quite frankly, I think it gives off a pretty strong stench of not wanting any contribution, and at the same time, telling us that it's exactly what we're supposed to do. I think you just tripped over your own feet there, Paperbrad. There's a difference between discussing who is likely to be town, and discussing who is likely to be mafia. Looks to me like Paperblade is clearly encouraging the latter and discouraging the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 You can ##Message: WeaponsofMassConstruction "whatever" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 And I'm requesting everyone comment on Paperblade as detailed above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WeaponsofMassConstruction Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Kay, why do you still have a vote on Rein? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Not Voting - San Strider is voting her not kay voting Rein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 By the way, Aere, you didn't respond to me. Just saying. Since I didn't respond to you and that was partially scummy, you not responding to me should be labeled as scummy right? Stop skimming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Oh, my bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Also my bad I'm a bit busy at the moment and can't do much more than skim, right? I'll get a response when I can (probably in a few minutes, but still). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 There's a difference between discussing who is likely to be town, and discussing who is likely to be mafia. Looks to me like Paperblade is clearly encouraging the latter and discouraging the former. difference between discussing who is likely to be town , and discussing who is likely to be mafia Uhh I think Prims is likely town, because X,Y,Z. I think Prims is likely mafia because A,B,C. AFAIAC, the above are examples that effectively show a neutral-opposite view of the other players, not mentioned. I am a derp who cannot copypaste properly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Uhh I think Prims is likely town, because X,Y,Z. I think Prims is likely mafia because A,B,C. AFAIAC, the above are examples that effectively show a neutral-opposite view of the other players, not mentioned. I am a derp who cannot copypaste properly Yes, but, for example, if I think Prims and Clipseykitty are town, and I think Ether and Balcerzak are mafia, I can just mention my opinion of Ether and Balcerzak, and the mafia won't know whether I have a good or neutral opinion of anyone else. I doubt anyone will have enough scumreads to narrow things down too much at this point. Note that I do not agree with remaining silent on townreads. I'm just saying, Paper doesn't look inconsistent to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 This is insufficient. 1. I can think of reason as town to ask for town reads. It promotes discussion and allows for more focused efforts to lynch someone. Additionally, if scum's responses can be analyzed when they die. 2. Is there scum motivation to fish for town reads more likely than the above? 1. Role speculation also promotes discussion, but does it really help us find a lynch? I disagree that it helps focus efforts to lynch someone. I suppose it slightly helps in that your top 1-3 townies are probably not likely to be scum, but with 12 players that doesn't really narrow down the field. 2. Yes, knowing who is a good nightkill. Weapons, how does that make sense as a scumslip? At best it means I wasn't paying attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 1. Role speculation also promotes discussion, but does it really help us find a lynch? I disagree that it helps focus efforts to lynch someone. I suppose it slightly helps in that your top 1-3 townies are probably not likely to be scum, but with 12 players that doesn't really narrow down the field. 2. Yes, knowing who is a good nightkill. Weapons, how does that make sense as a scumslip? At best it means I wasn't paying attention. You answered 1 within your own question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 protip: talking about who you find town doesn't help you find a lynch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Stuff below really doesn't matter but if you want to look through it and see if you can answer my question go ahead. This also doesn't really retain to the game but it's slightly in argument to whether or not simply saying suspicions can get you a proper lynch or not. Read first spoiler first. Assum you are the hammer, or have a governor ability for that day's lynch. Whatever. Hypothetical situation List of players: San Paperblade Prims Eclipse Manix Shinori Elieson Cam Proto Haze Marth BBM Iris Subieko Kaoz San says she finds Prims Shinori and Cam suspicious Paperblade says he finds Eclipse Shinori and Proto suspicious Prims says he finds Kay, paperblade and Cam suspicious Eclipse says she finds Haze Marth and Kaoz suspicious Manix says he finds Elieson Kay and proto suspicious Shinori says he finds Marth, Manix, and Prims suspicious Elieson says he finds BBM proto and Paperblade suspicious Cam says he finds Kay, Manix, and Kaoz suspicious Proto says he finds Prims Marth and Cam suspicious Haze says he finds BBM Prims and Eclipse suspicious Marth says he finds Cam Haze and Subieko suspicious BBM says he finds Subieko Shinori and Paperblade suspicious Iris says she finds Eclipse Manix and Elieson suspicious Subieko says he/she(IDR) finds BBM, Marth and Elieson suspicious Kaoz says he finds Prims Shinori and Paper blade suspicious Who would you lynch from that scenario? Can you find a viable lynch target just from those suspicions? Everyone's alignment from above San - Town Paperblade - Town Prims - town Eclipse - Scum Manix - Town Shinori - Scum Elieson - Town Cam - Town Proto - Scum Haze - Town Marth - Town BBM - Town Iris - Town Subieko - town Kaoz - town Were you right? This wasn't really done in a logics way, most of this stuff is randomized to just players having different thoughts. So I don't even know if you would grab scum or grab town. But take a gander at it and see if you guessed right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Basically with that last post all I'm trying to say is not just suspicions can get a proper lynch or lead to a lynch nesacarilly either. It takes everything that happens, interactions with players and everything. And stating town reads also helps for in case a player dies. Then you have both their town reads and scum reads to go off of even after they die. Fuck it's 1 am. I'm going to bed now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Shinori (4) - Manix, Paperblade, Helios, Aere Elieson (3) - Bluedoom, CT075, Seoyeon Paperblade (2) - Weapons, Elieson Aere (1) - Shinori Bluedoom (1) - scorri San (1) - Strider Not Voting - San With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 12 hours, 37 minutes left in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 ok so chances are I will be sleeping when deadline rolls around, so (8am deadlines my time too stronk) since the only wagon I'd like to see go through today that has any decent chance of happening (given the current votes) is the Shinori wagon, I will leave my vote there (the other wagons I wouldn't mind are Aere and Marth, which I have said many times). I'll have a scan of Elie's stuff in case something drastic pops out at me while reading it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'll be online before phase end, but just once. Shinori, unless you have a very good reason not to, I think you probably ought to claim soon. ##Vote: Aere You've done nothing further to improve my opinion of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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