Grace Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 okay I scanned through Elie's posts I noticed not a lot. A few things did jump out at me, like: Cam, I'm developing and explaining my town/scum reads. That way, if I get lynched or nightkilled, there's something to go off of other than "Elieson is tunnelling WoMC, and did crap for the rest of the day" okay three things 1) town reads argument that has been belted with a wooden stick 2) wouldn't it of been better to leave these reads until you're about to be lynched? I definitely cannot see you being a good nightkill target for the mafia, soooooooooooo 3) that series of ISO posts is similar to listposting, which no one seems to like And on the note of listposting, here's something to think about: Listposting generally gives people an exact idea of what your town reads and scum reads are, etc. Since pretty much no one likes people listposting (aside from when they're going to be lynched/killed), how is that any different from posting townreads? Oh wait, it isn't, last I checked. And some people clearly don't like our arguments against posting townreads... Can we stop applying double standards now, kthnx so I would be also pretty okay with an Elie lynch now, but I still think Shinori is scummier, and there was something much much earlier that made me start thinking. Something along these lines: @Manix: I was told to use more quotes with my posts/thoughts so I quoted stuff as I read. I didn't ever say I technically agreed with Helios, you are misrepping what I stated. I said I disagreed with Paperblades "Lol you are grasping" statement, because I didn't see it as fully grasping. Paperblade hadn't said much at that point in time and had asked for a vig to shoot cam, which i do partially dis-agree with because in a game of this size I'd be willing to be the vig is limited shots, if we even had one. Hey I know I addressed this already for different reasons, but this is super super defensive. Why would you be so defensive over one question and feeling? Something isn't right here. (The linked post contains said feeling and question) I should have, yes. Sorry about that. I didn't mean any offense if you took any either Manix. And then... I feel like this is trying to get on my good side for some reason. And it irks me. :/ ##sleepingnow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 This isn't going anywhere. I may have made a mistake ##Unvote, ##Vote: Elieson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I've had a weird feeling about Elieson all game. I don't understand why he's given up so early. I find his actions scummy, and wouldn't mind seeing him lynched, but it's not the most preferred lynch to me atm. I'd prefer either Shinori or Aere at this point. ##Unvote ##Vote Aere Switching my vote back to Aere because although I find Shinori scummy, he's at least been trying to justify his actions and is contributing a little. All Aere has done is prod others and ask about Boron, then jump the Shinori wagon. He hasn't done really done much scumhunting still and hasn't done anything to change my opinion on him from before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I just realized that I won't be on around deadline. :/ Woke up with a headache, too, so I might avoid my computer. My thoughts right now: Still not seeing Shinori as scummy. While it does feel different from his play in Xenoblade, he did get yelled at a ton by the hosts in postgame for his play there. At this point, I don't see anything wrong with his play so right now I don't suspect him. I'm not happy with Marth, but I feel like I don't have quite as much to go off on him. I wouldn't mind a Marth lynch though. Although I don't like Aere too much right now, I wouldn't lynch him just yet. I'm not convinced that this isn't just how he normally plays. Elieson has done nothing to change my mind about him, and so my vote will stay on him. I'm okay with everyone else right now ... although some less than others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ok Helios, not exactly sure where I've "Given Up", but I didn't sign up for this to quit when people decide that they don't like me. Not sure where that was mistead from. That being said. Cam and Kay aren't doing much of anything, Shinori is flailing about like Shinori, Marth has poor logic like Marth, and Paperbrad doesn't seem to really be doing anything as far as scumhunting, other than arguing mechanics, which is baffling to me as no one else really cares about it. And then my ISO on a variety of players, coming up as tunnelling. Last time I checked, tunnelling is the close-minded viewing of a single player, and I want even halfway done with my ISOs before people called it tunnelling. So, not sure where that was misread from either. Paperbrad is barely scumhunting, if at all, and responded in thread hinting at wanting to set up a code to WoMC regarding wanting to join a team when he was faking ITP, and no one finds that suspucious? Perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way though. Perhaps I should focus on simply blending in, not pointing out what I find to be scumtells and logic flaws until latephase. Perhaps I should also not be letting other players know what I think about the game we are all in. Instead I should correct other players when they make fundamental misinterpretations of seemingly basic concepts, and contribute nothing, so I do not look like obvtown, and thus, I do not look like a prime target to avoid being nightkilled. Has anyone considered that? That maybe, I actually have an idea of what I'm doing? You all seem to be pointing out that scum tend to not Nightkill scummy looking players, or at least under the impression about that being a given rule of thumb. Well shoot, don't you think I'm kind of possibly, maybe doing that? And for the record, i'll be happy to roleclaim, or go back to my usual stragedy of initiating more mild rolefishing conversation, so that way things move forward and we aren't all playing guessing games. I mentioned paperbrad above, and why I think he is scum. I won't even acknowledge his vote on me, because it's really just an OMGUS, and I really don't care about his opinions until he backs them up with concrete evidence/details. I think marth is scum because his logic is once again, derpy derp. I also think at least one of Cam, Scorri, Kay, or Aere is scum. I'm not willing to discredit the possibility of those not super active being worthy of a free pass. I'd go into more details, but my break is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 *note, in my bolded part, omit the word "avoid"* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Paperbrad is barely scumhunting, if at all, and responded in thread hinting at wanting to set up a code to WoMC regarding wanting to join a team when he was faking ITP, and no one finds that suspucious? What the hell are you talking about? You are completely misrepping me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Weapons, message me please. Posted before womc denied itp. @Weapons: I was going to tell you privately to include some sort of code so that you could prove you had sent a certain message, but since you are apparently the only courier that's not necessary Also I'm going to slap the next person that says "That's my playstyle stop attacking me for it" when someone points out that they're acting anti-town. And by slap I mean vote. Posted after womc denied itp. Am I really the only one considering paperbrad's suspicion with this as evidence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Let me bold the remark in question Paperbrad is barely scumhunting, if at all, and responded in thread hinting at wanting to set up a code to WoMC regarding wanting to join a team when he was faking ITP, and no one finds that suspucious? Where are you getting this from? Your ass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Has anyone considered that? That maybe, I actually have an idea of what I'm doing? You all seem to be pointing out that scum tend to not Nightkill scummy looking players, or at least under the impression about that being a given rule of thumb. Well shoot, don't you think I'm kind of possibly, maybe doing that? "I'm not scummy because I'm mafia, I'm just being scummy so someone else gets nightkilled instead! Really, it's nothing to worry about!" Dude. This. Is. Not. Good. Play. Okay, there are some situations when it might be useful, but unless you're a lynchproof mayor doctor, this probably isn't one of them. Someone will get nightkilled no matter what happens. The scum not having good targets won't change the number of kills. All the town can do is play well. Which is not helped at all by people acting scummy to stay under the radar. If town is intentionally scummy, how on earth do you propose we find mafia? ##Unvote (Aere) ##Vote: Elieson I think you know better than this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Also sorry, realized that sounded kind of condescending. I didn't mean to be that much of a jerk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 !!IMPORTANT NOTICE!! While creating my content post, I received a message: "It would be in our best interests to work together. How many are on your team?" Whoever this was; hi 3rd party. I can't help you because I'm not scum, and I don't know how many there are. !!End Notice!! Considering this was the original message, and your request for him to contact you was sent prior to him claiming anything being courier. And Kay, have you read the last like, 7 games that I was in? I was alive for one day or less in what, at least four, if not five of them? i was godkilled in two, lynch target in one, subbed in and died same day on one, and sk'd overnight in one. All before d2. The others where I didn't die pre-d2 were gimmick games. These games represent like, half of my games. Then ssbu where I lied to the town leader and got sac'd d2. Meaning, I must be well aware of how to play by making it really far in games, right? /sarcasm. No that's not me trying to complain or anything, but I'm pointing out a fact, that you cannot just assume every player knows the absolute best way to play, or even that some things which may be obvious to you, are not obvious to others. So why is anyone assuming that of me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ohcrud wrong copypaste, ignore that post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Wait, no that was the right post. Nevermind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 (edited) Elieson (5) - Bluedoom, CT075, Seoyeon, Paperblade, San (L-2) Aere (2) - Shinori, Helios Paperblade (2) - Weapons, Elieson Shinori (2) - Manix, Aere Bluedoom (1) - scorri San (1) - Strider Not Voting - None! With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 3 hours, 10 minutes left in the day. Edited August 31, 2012 by Prims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Considering this was the original message, and your request for him to contact you was sent prior to him claiming anything being courier. You are full of shit. http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111613 Weapons claims, says he did not send Manix that message, asks if anyone wants them to contact him http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111634 Weapons specifically says he did not message Manix again http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111681 I request he message me http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34918&view=findpost&p=2111794 Weapons claims he actually did send the message to Manix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ok Helios, not exactly sure where I've "Given Up", but I didn't sign up for this to quit when people decide that they don't like me. Not sure where that was mistead from. I'm referring to this specifically. Cam, I'm developing and explaining my town/scum reads. That way, if I get lynched or nightkilled, there's something to go off of other than "Elieson is tunnelling WoMC, and did crap for the rest of the day" What would happen if a Vig shot you, Cam? Would we learn anything if you flipped accordingly to your claim, and have something for D2? I just don't understand you're overall strategy and doing what you've done in this game. I've been thinking you were just trying something new and trying to contribute to discussion even if the methods were poor, but the more you post the more you look scummier. Perhaps I'm looking at this the wrong way though. Perhaps I should focus on simply blending in, not pointing out what I find to be scumtells and logic flaws until latephase. Perhaps I should also not be letting other players know what I think about the game we are all in. Instead I should correct other players when they make fundamental misinterpretations of seemingly basic concepts, and contribute nothing, so I do not look like obvtown, and thus, I do not look like a prime target to avoid being nightkilled. Has anyone considered that? That maybe, I actually have an idea of what I'm doing? You all seem to be pointing out that scum tend to not Nightkill scummy looking players, or at least under the impression about that being a given rule of thumb. Well shoot, don't you think I'm kind of possibly, maybe doing that? I learned after my first game that doing this is the wrong approach to mafia. You don't play to survive if you're town; you try to scumhunt and contribute to discussion (ISOlistposting doesn't count as this) to help lead the town to proper lynches, and if you die you die leaving the town with knowledge. There's no point in this strategy, especially if you're going to become a main lynch target as a result. That being said. Cam and Kay aren't doing much of anything, Shinori is flailing about like Shinori, Marth has poor logic like Marth, and Paperbrad doesn't seem to really be doing anything as far as scumhunting, other than arguing mechanics, which is baffling to me as no one else really cares about it. Paperbrad is barely scumhunting, if at all, and responded in thread hinting at wanting to set up a code to WoMC regarding wanting to join a team when he was faking ITP, and no one finds that suspucious? I agree with you that Paperblade is giving off scumvibes and I've had a bad feeling about him since early in the game (for reasons stated earlier). Referring to the bold though, I don't think that's actually what happened but I'll let Paper respond to that. Paper might be giving off scumvibes, but he doesn't have as much concrete evidence to prove that he's scum over people like you, Aere, Marth, and Shinori. Because of this Paperblade isn't mentioned as often. Speaking of people that haven't been mentioned, what happened to Rein and Scorri? Vote still stands on Aere since he hasn't done anything to change my opinion, but I'm leaning scum more on Elieson then before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Considering this was the original message, and your request for him to contact you was sent prior to him claiming anything being courier. And Kay, have you read the last like, 7 games that I was in? I was alive for one day or less in what, at least four, if not five of them? i was godkilled in two, lynch target in one, subbed in and died same day on one, and sk'd overnight in one. All before d2. The others where I didn't die pre-d2 were gimmick games. These games represent like, half of my games. Then ssbu where I lied to the town leader and got sac'd d2. Meaning, I must be well aware of how to play by making it really far in games, right? /sarcasm. No that's not me trying to complain or anything, but I'm pointing out a fact, that you cannot just assume every player knows the absolute best way to play, or even that some things which may be obvious to you, are not obvious to others. So why is anyone assuming that of me? Okay. But this is just logical. The mafia will only stand out if other people act pro-town. The idea is for everyone to try to look like town, not to try to look like scum. With people trying to not be nightkilled that way, how do we tell who's scummy because they're mafia and who's scummy because they're town trying to be inconspicuous? Furthermore, why do you care about avoiding being nightkilled? Someone gets nightkilled anyway. Town should generally focus on not getting lynched, and thus increasing the chances of mafia getting lynched. The mafia doesn't want there to be obvtown players. Therefore, they get killed. By not acting townish because of this, you're doing the mafia's job for them by reducing the number of townish players. Does that make sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Also Prims, I'm voting Aere atm, not Shinori. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aere Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Helios, could you please explain your feelings towards me again? Or does it constitute of my actions towards Manix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Sorry, I've been working on homework all day. My main scumspect is still Marth, but out of Shinori, Paper, and Elie (the three that I view most likely to be lynched) I find Shinori to be the most suspicious. Mostly because of the second two questions he asked. We've multiple times said in this thread that talking about roles is bad and anti-town, yet here he comes and starts talking about roles. Besides that, I've just felt like something is off about his posts and I'm getting a scummy vibe from him. Since I probably won't be around much before deadline, this is probably my end vote. ##unvote ##Vote:Shinori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Ok....I'm rereading and I think I jumped on paper and didn't quite understand the scenario. I still feel something odd, but my evidence was not lined up right. I apologize, I read things wrong. ##unvote Helios, I just forgot to mention scorri. As for rein, he's about to be subbed. What can I do about that? Kay. Why try to simply scumhunt than to survive? I can't scumhunt if i'm dead, and I sure can't help town scumhunt if I'm lynched. The longer I live, the more info I contribute. However, I do get your last point. Yes, it makes sense. Let me add to it though, that in some circumstances, (what I said above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Elieson (5) - Bluedoom, CT075, Seoyeon, Paperblade, San (L-2) Shinori (3) - Manix, Aere, scorri Aere (2) - Shinori, Helios Paperblade (1) - Weapons San (1) - Strider Not Voting - Elieson With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 1 hour, 35 minutes left in the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 @Aere: Your posts are practically active lurking most of the time. You haven't done much scumhunting at all the entire game, and your posts are mostly just fluff. You've prodded a couple people here and there and asked a couple questions here and there, and really have been just focusing on Boron. You just seem to be trying to blend in and don't seem to have many opinions to contribute to discussion. You haven't done anything to really change my opinion, therefore I find you scummy. @Elieson: Nah I didn't mean why haven't you said anything about them, but simply that they haven't been around for anyone to say anything about them. They've been awfully forgettable. Scorri's got school though so that's understandable so I expect more activity this weekend. Rein though I'm not really sure except that he's Rein lol. I don't think people are scummy for being inactive, but it's hard to get a read without much to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I will plan on being around more this weekend. >_> Sorry, it's just the first week of class, so pretty much everything has lots of meetings and homework and such. Hopefully things will mellow out a little, otherwise I'll ask for a sub if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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