Filler 9p - Game Over

[charlie_]

Why?

[Psych]

I didn't want to protect Helios or Jalmont since I was suspicious of them, Boron and Rocker didn't leave any impressions on me as notable, and I felt safe with Marth. Just decided not to pick Scorri or Snike I guess.

[Helios]

but snike was arguably the most protown player in the game at the time, whereas marth at least had some suspicion on him

[Psych]

Perhaps, but I picked Marth. I thought he was clear even if other people didn't.

[charlie_]

Why did you think he was clear?

[Psych]

To me, his logic seems fine and his votes seem pretty backed up. He's also been contributing and in general, seeming pretty townish to me.

[scorri]

Eh. I think judging if he's doc or not by who he claims to have protected isn't the best strategy. Honestly, I was surprised that Snike was the kill last night simply because he was the most townie looking player. Logically that means that the doctor or watcher or whatever we have would have been on him. *shrug* Maybe that's just me though. That's the problem with trying to guess what the mafia is going to do. It's hard.

[Rocker64]

woah serious mad itt

You've seriously overreacted to what I've had to say. I did not jump to a conclusion; I actually did read your post. What I didn't like about it is that you were so hasty to hammer. Even with 5 minutes left, I feel like a villager would very much be double-checking to make sure that there actually is only five minutes left in the day. Five minutes is plenty of time to do some math and check for deadline. Prims puts the deadline in his votecounts, so all you have to do his add that time to your current time, and not the time the forum gives you. I don't know, that seems pretty obvious to me, but I can understand why you might've been confused. What I don't understand is your huge overreaction to my post. I know I've said that I find emotion to be a pro-town tell, but not when people engage in such an early stage like this. There was no serious discussion to lynch based on this event. I simply brought up this incident and why I didn't like it, and you got really angry. Not real sure why.

Well, if you play NOC games all the time, surely you would've had the sense to check up on when the deadline is? With your experience you would've known that it would be rash to hammer without first checking when deadline is. As a villager, I believe it is an instinctive reaction to avoid doing things that can be seen as detrimental to town play, with hammering early being something that would be undesirable. I am also very confused as to why you brought up OC when I did not bring it up in my post. As far as I know, no one has brought it up. It seems to me that you've completely misunderstood what I've been saying. I really am quite confused as to why you thought I was talking about OC, when all I asked was if you had played NOC before. I know this word gets thrown around a lot, but your recent posts have come across as very defensive.

At this point in time, I think it's in our best interests to No Lynch, as we've got too many variables right now to risk a no lynch. The time we also gain from tomorrow's discussion will also give us a better view as to who is scum.

I'm unsure what general conscensus is, but should cop claim if he has received a scum result? (general question, don't claim if you are cop unless you know what you are doing :/ )

I'm going to punch you in the face through the internet.

LISTEN CAREFULLY.

HOW THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSE TO CHECK THE TIME LIKE YOUR SAYING.

ON PRIMS POST IT SAID HE POSTED 4 HOURS AGO. HE THEN SAYS "4 HOURS TILL DEADLINE" I was freaking the fuck out.

HOW AM I SUPPOSE TO "Add it to my current time" IF I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE TIME WAS 4 FUCKING HOURS OFF. I saw that prims posted at 12:00 AM, and it is 4:00 Am now.

I added 12:00 plus 4 hours and was like "HOLY CRAP, BETTER HAMMER BEFORE PRIMS IS LIKE, "NOBODY DIES, OKBYE"" I did check the deadline, I DID DO THE MATH. BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT THE TIME WAS FRAKING OFF.

If i had known prims ACTUALLY posted 5 minutes ago, i would have simply done the math, posted a normal post and added to the discussion and crap and then came back 4 hours later and seen if someone hammered.

I brought up OC to help my point in saying, THAT IT BEING NOC OR NOT DOESN'T EVEN FUCKING MATTER.

God, stop misunderstanding everything i say. DO ME A FAVOR, and reread my posts a few times, its kinda aggravating me. I'm tempted to vote you, because its dumb at this point, but it would just be a OMGUS vote and that doesn't help anyone, at all ever.

@Helios: I haven't really looked at your post to confirm his evidence or not, been to busy yelling at Jalmont. :P

I'll do that later.

@Marth: Its not just because you tunneled. Its more because you tunneled for no reason at all. Your case didn't make much sense, yet you kept pushing it, like i said, it seemed as if you wanted to dig up something, anything against him, it was just scummy. This is all IMO though, i guess your logic could have made sense in your own head and i just don't get it at all. if you do end up flipping town or whatever.

@SB: Docs DO want to stay hidden, but also they want to stay alive. I kinda of agree, but eh, i still really don't like risking it.

@Jalmont: Don't take my caps/swearing too hard, i'm not exactly yelling at you, simply stressing points and stuff. Its also rage inducing the fact that you don't understand what i mean, and i'm stubborn(I think i spelled this wrong.) and going to keep trying to reword it until you understand me! Yay goals.

@Psych: So you felt that Marth was towniest so you protected him, correct? Seems pretty reasonable, Psych came down to three choices that he thought were townish and chose one.

We still got 2 days of discussion, so i won't vote NL yet but if we can't get a target we all agree on, we should definitely NL.

[scorri]

~Public Service Announcement~

Emotion is a null tell everyone!

~End Announcement~

(More serious post coming in my next one)

[Psych]

Another thing SB, it's not uncommon for people to claim as L-1, so I don't know why you think I pulled this out of my ass. I had to go to bed and didn't want to be stealth lynched, which we've kind of seen earlier in the game.

Besides, I've been playing pretty normal, so it's not like I'm suddenly acting totally insane and claiming Day 1 or something. If you were doc, you'd claim before your lynch too.

Sure, Marth was fighting with Boron earlier, but I figured it was just town infighting, especially now since you're leaning town for me now that you've subbed in. I'll probably try and make a chart or something.

Like I guess I'm leaning

1. Bluedoom

7. Serious Bananas

8. scorri

6. Rocker64

3. Jalmont

2. Helios

Scorri leans town for me, but still pretty neutral on her. Rocker is basically 50-50 right now for me. The others I've pretty much said my opinions for.

[scorri]

##Vote: Rocker64

That vote on me is pretty bad especially since Lucina flipped town' date=' and since I know I'm town I can consider this the "Oh one of them flipped town so the other MUST flip scum" followed by a list post.

[/quote']

... I see Rocker's point actually. This is a pretty bad OMGUS. Like... literally the only justification behind this is "your vote is bad and I know I'm town"

[charlie_]

We still got 2 days of discussion, so i won't vote NL yet but if we can't get a target we all agree on, we should definitely NL.

This is why he shouldn't have claimed. He had a ton of time to get votes off of him, and I think over the last month we've learnt not to quicklynch super early in the phase. 4 hours before is unfortunate but Lucina was on IRC the entire time and didn't do anything so I don't think it would have made a difference. In my opinion we don't have enough town looking players to risk a no lynch, and the info we get from night actions will probably not make much of a difference, since there are 3+ vanillas in the game, and 1 flip won't make much of a difference, and mafia just get a kill. I'd still like to lynch Psych, but there are other options I could go for.

Can someone explain the case against Helios for me? From what I've seen of it it seems pretty weak.

[scorri]

SB: He was at L-1. You claim we've learned to not quicklynch, but that's clearly not true if you look at, oh, FAYZ. While the situation was different there, it's still parallel. Plus, his claiming now means we waste less time on him and can spend more time scumhunting.

[charlie_]

That's where we should have learnt it from though, scorri. Gonna look back through at a few things.

[scorri]

Serenes Forest Mafia members... "learning"... Yeah, not seeing it. >_>

[Helios]

I like how Psych completely dodged my last post against him lol. I don't think him picking Marth over Snike means obvscum, I just wanted to hear his reasoning as to why he did that. Like Scorri said Snike looked like an obvtarget for the doc so it's really surprising that he ended up dying. Doc is just such an easy fakeclaim because of things like this, which is why I never really buy it. If someone says doc then half the game goes "oh he's the doc let's forget about him instaclear", and it's not like you'll get a counterclaim since the real doc wouldn't want the attention. I still prefer Psych to be lynched this phase, but that doesn't mean I'm looking at everyone else.

I also think that Rocker is being sincere with his accidental hammer because I've screwed up with times like that before too when I used IE or Firefox. That being said I'd like it if we just dropped this entirely since it's not that big of a deal (Lucina was going to get lynched no matter what it seemed, and it was only 4 hours and the game hadn't been all that active at that point). Rocker, what are your opinions on Psych and Scorri?

I'm still leaning slight scum on Marth because I'm still not a fan of some of his logic, he completely 180ed on his opinion on Rocker, and it looks like he's trying to buddy with Psych with his defending. He's not my priority lynch at this point but I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched in the future.

I also don't like Jalmont trying to push a case on Rocker for his accidental hammer. Seems a little opportunistic to try and cash in on (at least I feel like) an honest mistake. Add that in with lazy play earlier and not a whole lot of scumhunting overall (he has a bit just not like a ton) I'm back to neutral on him, since I felt like he was leaning town before after a few of his ~content~ posts.

scorri stop hatin yo

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(1) Bluedoom - Rocker64

(1) Psych - Serious Bananas

(1) Rocker64 - Bluedoom

(2) No Lynch - Psych, scorri

Not Voting (2): Helios, Jalmont

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to hammer. You have about 25 hours and 40 minutes left in the day.

[charlie_]

Some things I found when looking at Marth again.

I don't really think there's any point in voting Rocker because he has been literally inactive and that modvote was more or less him not being interested in the game. No really it shows when you're prodded and then you think the mod is playing the game.

Still sticking with the scum! Boron view but through PoE I'm guessing either Helios or Lucina is her buddy. There's little to go off of at this point and I've reconsidered my Rocker view. I can see why he's having two votes on him but uh for a lynch priority I'd say Boron> him. Also Rocker has what, one post? To me that post looked more like he wasn't paying attention and posted only cuz he was prodded. If anything Prims should force-sub him out to if he's gonna be like that.

So this is part of the first post Marth makes. He accuses Helios and Lucina of being scum, no explanation other than process of elimination, which is pretty weak. Did the entire rest of the game look town at that point? Didn't think so. Especially with two guys in the game who basically didn't exist.

Then there was his hardcore tunneling on Boron. He called an RVS vote scummy, using a pretty aggressive tone

Shit ofc 'just being active' is not scummy. If you're active AND do pointless stuff that don't contribute to scumhunting it IS scummy dammit. All you're doing now is basically going 'why me' and isonlating my points agaisnt when ofc its not scummy if you isolate them. Maybe I might be wrong about you but all I have as info right now is RVS so as of NOW I think you're more likely to be scum compared to the rest.

This was just before Boron had enough and left it. Note the bit about isolating posts. If someone can defend against every point about them that you throw at them, but they don't do it all at the same time, they're scummy. How does this make sense?

So, Marth's barely talked about Helios at all since his first post, and now he rushes back to him.

Ok, I will drop the case for now. We're going in circles. You're gonna keep saying "But there are others" and I'm going to keep saying how I think you're scummier.

##Unvote

##Vote: Helios

Nice waffly read on me. First it goes about how my bad logic isn't a scumtell, then how I'm 'slightly scummy' only for you to start finding multiple reasons against me(and would definitely think its a stronger read if you ask me). Finally it follows up with an unvote when I'd have expected you to vote me considering you find me scummy. An unvote tells me you're waiting for a good wagon to hop on to at the right moment.

Also I find it odd that you're focusing on Rocker. Yes Rocker might be coasting but half the game is considering they're all afk. Why call out just rocker?

He said he didn't find you that scummy, and wasn't sure who looked scummier. There's no point voting a person you don't find very scummy, is there? It's not RVS anymore.

Hey look, apparently Helios has been tunneling. On Rocker no less. It's not like you've been doing it to Boron, right? And it's not like you're gonna give up on Helios and move on to Rocker based on some shitty reasoning, are you?

Look at this post here, too.

Not quoted since it barely picks up on any of the post. Basically, he's saying being indecisive at this point in the game scummy, when there had been 6 pages of interactions so far. Which isn't enough to form a solid opinion on someone, especially if they haven't posted much (like Lucina).

##Vote: Rocker64

That vote on me is pretty bad especially since Lucina flipped town, and since I know I'm town I can consider this the "Oh one of them flipped town so the other MUST flip scum" followed by a list post.

I never saw the case on Psych and still don't- he's playing his normal self and sort-of contributing. Helios is still suspect to me but there's not much to go on so this is more of guessing and maybe massclaiming later in this phase.

Jalmont's list post last phase was irking me but I've got not much time to read so I'll bbl later and post.

So yeah. Now he goes for Rocker, it's not like he said 2 pages earlier that he didn't understand Helios' Rocker vote. Between those 2 pages, Rocker made 3 posts or something. Also, it's a nice fat OMGUS.

I say we lynch rocker cuz he's very scummy, his recent post is uh, just an echo of other opinions and its basic "its either this player or this for the lynch" mindset I mean has he even put in any effort in scumhunting?

and if my earlier post on Helios hadn't hinted it, I'm now thinking scum team may be Rocker/Helios. Yesssss

"cuz he's very scummy". Nice one mate. Also he did have some valid points on you, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here and it just looks weak.

Let's just lynch Rocker cuz he's been tunneling on me for god knows why. Latest post has too much about me being "Marth must die I'm sure he's scum cuz he tunneled D1" yeah right. At least I have the excuse of using RVS shenanigans as my reason for tunneling, you don't even need to tunnel at this point cuz you can scumhunt better. Elaborate why you find me scummy cuz your only reasoning is me tunneling an you've admitted that Psych has 'convincing evidence on Helios' yet you prefer my lynch for tunneling very early in the game? How is that point against me more convincing? Need more explanation.

He explained why he voted for you, the day before. You didn't JUST tunnel Boron, you were gunning for Helios' lynch pretty hard at one point on pretty weak grounds.

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

I'm still up for lynching Psych, but if you guys want to ignore a doc claim for now, then I'd prefer Marth to get lynched.

[Jalmont]

i'm not pushing a lynch on anyone, i pointed out what i believed was a discrepancy so others could put their opinions on the topic. I am sorry if you dislike the fact I am not searching for the right things I tried helping but apparently whatever i do i am mafia ????

whatever i will just try harder

[Jalmont]

so apparently when i yell at people i am mafia but when rocker overreacts it makes him ok???

OK

he's literally pulling stuff out his ass (I haven't even voted you??? why would voting me be OMGUS???) and he really is overreacting to one post i made

oh well

Psych is really flip-flopping (waffling or w/e?) I don't know first he says I'm looking better then I'm not because I'm wrong about whatever I say about Rocker. Don't really want to risk lynching the doc claim right now, but it's on the table if we don't have any other clear options imo.

[Psych]

What am I flip-flopping on? My stances have held strong though out the game pretty much.

[Rocker64]

I like how Psych completely dodged my last post against him lol. I don't think him picking Marth over Snike means obvscum, I just wanted to hear his reasoning as to why he did that. Like Scorri said Snike looked like an obvtarget for the doc so it's really surprising that he ended up dying. Doc is just such an easy fakeclaim because of things like this, which is why I never really buy it. If someone says doc then half the game goes "oh he's the doc let's forget about him instaclear", and it's not like you'll get a counterclaim since the real doc wouldn't want the attention. I still prefer Psych to be lynched this phase, but that doesn't mean I'm looking at everyone else.

I also think that Rocker is being sincere with his accidental hammer because I've screwed up with times like that before too when I used IE or Firefox. That being said I'd like it if we just dropped this entirely since it's not that big of a deal (Lucina was going to get lynched no matter what it seemed, and it was only 4 hours and the game hadn't been all that active at that point). Rocker, what are your opinions on Psych and Scorri?

I'm still leaning slight scum on Marth because I'm still not a fan of some of his logic, he completely 180ed on his opinion on Rocker, and it looks like he's trying to buddy with Psych with his defending. He's not my priority lynch at this point but I wouldn't mind seeing him lynched in the future.

I also don't like Jalmont trying to push a case on Rocker for his accidental hammer. Seems a little opportunistic to try and cash in on (at least I feel like) an honest mistake. Add that in with lazy play earlier and not a whole lot of scumhunting overall (he has a bit just not like a ton) I'm back to neutral on him, since I felt like he was leaning town before after a few of his ~content~ posts.

scorri stop hatin yo

Psych and Scorri:

Psych hasn't too scummy, and he hasn't really done too much, to make me suspect him really. Claiming doc at L-1 seems pretty justified. (Changing opinion because i forgot he was at L-1 till i just saw again.)

Scorri has been pretty protown so far, her and SB have been most town IMO.

@SB: Mostly been voting for Marth for his hardcore tunneling and his well, recent posts now which you presented to us in the bottom of your post. I did however miss some of the other things you said.

@Jalmont: OMGUS votes don't necessarily have to be used against someone who voted you.

I was tempted to vote you because you were simply just pissing me off. That would be a OMGUS (Oh My God You Suck) vote. Its not ALWAYS used simply to counter-vote. (Atleast were i play.)

I noticed, i haven't really made my views about anyone else public so HERE WE GO: (List Time)

Pretty ProTown:

• SB (Haven't seem much scummy, Boron was tunneled by Marth, possible scum-to-scum tunneling but it just didn't seem like it. Got to keep that in mind though.)
• Scorri

Neutral:

• Psych (Despite being the case of the day, i don't really see it.)
• Helios (Need to look into Psych's evidence and stuff, though he still has been helpful in discussion, he did practically start the case against Psych too, so far now he isn't too bad, but if Psych flips town, he will be looking really scummy)

Scummy:

• Marth (OMGUS voting, Hardcore Tunneling, etc etc. Go read SB's post and some of mine, not rewriting everything here.)
• Jalmont (Eh, not too scummy, but a little bit. His main "case" so far has been on me, and my accidental quickhammering, just generally has been kinda useless/coasting i guess.)

Lynch wise: Marth > Jalmont > Psych

[scorri]

Yeah, ok. I was hesitant to vote Marth over one OMGUS vote, but that combined with the other points brought up by SB (aka the rapid switches in views with little explanation or reasons, tunneling, etc) makes me like this lynch quite a bit.

##unvote

##Vote:Marth

MARTH IS AT L-1, do not quick hammer him please

Also Helios, not hatin. Loving. You got me a win there.

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(3) Bluedoom - Rocker64, Serious Bananas, scorri (L-1!)

(1) Rocker64 - Bluedoom

(1) No Lynch - Psych

Not Voting (2): Helios, Jalmont

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to hammer. You have about 19 hours left in the day.

Bluedoom is at L-1!

Bluedoom has been prodded!

[Bluedoom]

@Helios: I did not 180 at all. I suggested we ignore rocker and not gun him down based on one post, and it looked like that with the way Snike asked for people to go on the Rocker-wagon. Now I'm voting him because even after getting into D2 I don't see any proper scumhunting effort other than tunneling me because I tunneled for nothing D1 LOLOL. Yeah you call my cases bullshit but this is a pretty bullshit case in itself.

@Rocker: You say the tunneling was for naught? Wrong. Give me examples of people trying to be helpful during RVS. Nothing ever happened things were too slow. I just made things better. Also you say tunneling in RVS is shitty? Well hey, at least I made an effort to scumhunt, which says stuff. Finally THAT really was an action that brought us out of RVS.

Some things I found when looking at Marth again.

So this is part of the first post Marth makes. He accuses Helios and Lucina of being scum, no explanation other than process of elimination, which is pretty weak. Did the entire rest of the game look town at that point? Didn't think so. Especially with two guys in the game who basically didn't exist.

Then there was his hardcore tunneling on Boron. He called an RVS vote scummy, using a pretty aggressive tone

This was just before Boron had enough and left it. Note the bit about isolating posts. If someone can defend against every point about them that you throw at them, but they don't do it all at the same time, they're scummy. How does this make sense?

So, Marth's barely talked about Helios at all since his first post, and now he rushes back to him.

He said he didn't find you that scummy, and wasn't sure who looked scummier. There's no point voting a person you don't find very scummy, is there? It's not RVS anymore.

Hey look, apparently Helios has been tunneling. On Rocker no less. It's not like you've been doing it to Boron, right? And it's not like you're gonna give up on Helios and move on to Rocker based on some shitty reasoning, are you?

Look at this post here, too.

Not quoted since it barely picks up on any of the post. Basically, he's saying being indecisive at this point in the game scummy, when there had been 6 pages of interactions so far. Which isn't enough to form a solid opinion on someone, especially if they haven't posted much (like Lucina).

So yeah. Now he goes for Rocker, it's not like he said 2 pages earlier that he didn't understand Helios' Rocker vote. Between those 2 pages, Rocker made 3 posts or something. Also, it's a nice fat OMGUS.

"cuz he's very scummy". Nice one mate. Also he did have some valid points on you, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say here and it just looks weak.

He explained why he voted for you, the day before. You didn't JUST tunnel Boron, you were gunning for Helios' lynch pretty hard at one point on pretty weak grounds.

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

I'm still up for lynching Psych, but if you guys want to ignore a doc claim for now, then I'd prefer Marth to get lynched.

Ok Sb so first.

Yes it was RVS, Yes I tunnelled. I made a better effort at scumhunting than you folks, who basically lollygagged around. I was trying to scumhunt within that RVS crap. Because I had no other info. Also people didn't exist. Just because I find people scummy doesn't mean the rest of the players I read as TOWN. I just read neutral. Do tell me what would you have done with them non-existent players?

See. Boron was saying being active is not scummy. Then she says doing pointless stuff doesn't make her scum. If you're active and you don't do anything helpful and do pointless stuff, that is anti-town. It IS scummy. And you people keeping handwaving my posts like this, its honestly annoying.

Yeah I've barely talked about Helios. Cuz when I did talk about Helios in my first post there wasn't much to go on. Then he posted more. So I was able to respond to this. There, simple?

I admit I tunneled. However this was also during RVS. Things can change quickly. I could even get reads on people with opinions on the matter. Helios wasn't really tunneling on Rocker. He was more or less just picking him out of the 'coasting lot' and presenting Rocker to us as his scumread. Why not just say that we need to pay attention to the coasters rather than emphasizing Rocker?

Oh so basically we vote for people we find scummy only in RVS, do we SB? How stupid. Why didn't I see such play during RVS anyway? Cuz LOL ITS RVS!

Being indecisive CAN be a scumtell and I've seen people, including myself, be lynched for waffly stuff(or if not lynch, end up flipping scum in endgame). Observe GSM. You'll learn a thing or two. You guys, just because I found Boron and Helios scummy and was aggressive, you think I'm scummy. YES it was totally cool for Boron to go "Why me go and look at Snike" or dat Lucina lynch was the product of Ace Scumhunting, right? / sarcasm

Yeah that Lucina lynch didn't have ANY weak reasoning. I'm pretty sure there was STRONG EVIDENCE that suggested she was scum. Oh look! She flipped town! Fuck you guys for having that weak case and calling me out for weak cases. Also before anyone says "But marth you were cool with a Lucina lynch" yes I did say a Lucina lynch would be alright because I could see the most benefits out of her mislynch too(i.e better reads based on interactions compared to a Psych lynch) Unlike others who completely thought she was ob!scum I had the "What if she's a silly newb!town." doubt too.

Finally I'm claiming vanilla townie. Do what you will with it, you wish to lynch me do so, its only going to be a slap to your faces.