So what would an efficiency run of this game be like?

[Galenforcer]

Would it involve skipping all the kids and marriages? And probably some other things like DLC?

[Othin]

Every run aims to be efficient in terms of some standard. So it would look precisely like anything.

[cheetah7071]

Would it involve skipping all the kids and marriages? And probably some other things like DLC?

A no-RNG abuse LTC game (which is presumably what you meant Othin's grumblings aside) would probably look a lot like my draft over in the draft forums, completed in 114 turns--get an absurd MU, use her to crush rout chapters, and use rescue/dance strategies to cheese bosskill chapters. The main difference between that draft run and normal efficiency would be that recruiting Mark probably doesn't save time--some combination of Sairi, Sariya, Basilio and Flavia can probably fill in for him, though.

Edited October 29, 2012 by cheetah7071

[Dark Nocturne]

i would say that an efficient run would have lots of spotpass units, as they are basically my units so they will all be pretty good at whatever you want them too. and i say this meaning for example, if you used say magic as your worst stat at creation, your my unit still wouldn't be the worst choice for a mage, just not the best, and this stands for all of the spotpass units.

[shadowofchaos]

Spotpass Units from previous fire emblems are generics, and as such, have no supports and have not as much doubling potential. That doesn't sound very good.

Now if you're talking about Streetpass My Units, the chances of you finding a decent randomly generated one AND having enough gold/leveling up to defeat them in the battle sounds PRETTY DAMN INEFFICIENT AND LUCK BASED.

Edited October 31, 2012 by shadowofchaos

[Ein]

I dunno. It seems like this'll be like any other draft rule set up minus the kids unless the drafters make some kind of system to add them when they feel like it.

[Othin]

Spotpass Units from previous fire emblems are generics, and as such, have no supports and have not as much doubling potential. That doesn't sound very good.

Now if you're talking about Streetpass My Units, the chances of you finding a decent randomly generated one AND having enough gold/leveling up to defeat them in the battle sounds PRETTY DAMN INEFFICIENT AND LUCK BASED.

Supports aren't too big of a worry and certainly aren't a major part of Double bonuses.

Of course, we must also note that guest MUs have the same generic constraints.

[shadowofchaos]

Supports aren't too big of a worry and certainly aren't a major part of Double bonuses.

Of course, we must also note that guest MUs have the same generic constraints.

Well no, what I meant is that Spotpass FE characters... if you're going for turn efficiently at least, aren't the best to obtain.

Now if they're "free" within the constraints of what type of "efficiency" they're going after, then yes they're a useful resource.

[Ema Skye]

I think if you're going for minimum turns, it would probably involve quite a few Dark Pegasi.

Dark Pegasus get the Lightning Speed skill, and also have no movement penalties and 1-2 range (both of which are big helps in a LTC setting, especially in FE13 where every mission is either defeat boss or Rout). Unlike other classes that have access to 1-2 range, like Paladins and Great Knights, access to Tomes means they don't need to worry about the 2 MT Javelins or 3 MT Hand Axe. Not to mention you can get Movement Cry as well to get even more move.

[FrostyFireMage]

Throw the Jeigan at everything, I'd imagine.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Frosty Fire Mage

[Lord Raven]

There's a point where Frederick's bases cannot carry him through the game anymore...

[Othin]

I think if you're going for minimum turns, it would probably involve quite a few Dark Pegasi.

Dark Pegasus get the Lightning Speed skill, and also have no movement penalties and 1-2 range (both of which are big helps in a LTC setting, especially in FE13 where every mission is either defeat boss or Rout). Unlike other classes that have access to 1-2 range, like Paladins and Great Knights, access to Tomes means they don't need to worry about the 2 MT Javelins or 3 MT Hand Axe. Not to mention you can get Movement Cry as well to get even more move.

Not happening. Lightning Speed is an endgame skill even for characters that start as Pegasus Knights, and they'll be starting with an E rank in tomes, initially locking them to tomes as weak as Javelins and using them with an incredibly low Mag stat.

There's a point where Frederick's bases cannot carry him through the game anymore...

MU can take over pretty well past that point on the lower difficulties, though.

[cheetah7071]

Sending MU to Dark Pegasus is certainly plausible. I didn't do that in my draft (I chose Dark Knight instead) because of worries that a bow weakness would make soloing maps impossible. If Dark Pegasus MU is still functionally invincible (as she probably is in normal mode) then lightning speed will probably save a few turns here and there. You probably still want to spend enough time in grandmaster to have Lucina inherit Rainbow Cry, though.

[Anouleth]

Throw the Jeigan at everything, I'd imagine.

That is rarely a viable efficient strategy. Only Sigurd, Seth, and Titania are strong enough to remain good throughout the whole of their respective games, and there are very good reasons not to rely entirely upon Titania in FE9 efficiency. In recent years, Jeigans have actually been toned down, in fact, with Arran, Jagen, and Sothe all becoming useless towards the lategame.

[arvilino]

Not happening. Lightning Speed is an endgame skill even for characters that start as Pegasus Knights, and they'll be starting with an E rank in tomes, initially locking them to tomes as weak as Javelins and using them with an incredibly low Mag stat.

Plus they've got one of the lowest base strength and low strength growths as well. They have one of the lowest damage output that even on Normal by the time the enemies are all promoted(which would be around the time Sumia or Tiamo might reach 10/15) they may need to double with a unit to ORKO which sort of uses up the turn of that other unit in order to activate Lightning speed.

[Anouleth]

Plus they've got one of the lowest base strength and low strength growths as well. They have one of the lowest damage output that even on Normal by the time the enemies are all promoted(which would be around the time Sumia or Tiamo might reach 10/15) they may need to double with a unit to ORKO which sort of uses up the turn of that other unit in order to activate Lightning speed.

Well, I think the idea is that with Lightning Speed, you can be more aggressive with your super-MU, being able to position her better to take out more enemies on enemy phase and to reach bosses faster. I don't know how reasonable it is to go Dark Pegasus with MU, though. It would probably depend on the difficulty, because I don't know if Dark Pegasus would be survivable enough on Hard mode.

[Fanfaire]

Use Fredtrick until he starts to fall off, go with Super MU + Dances(Love you Olivia!) and the such.

No kids I'm guessing other than Lucina since she's required. Though if you get Marth and Marth than you could just go with that.

[Othin]

Well, I think the idea is that with Lightning Speed, you can be more aggressive with your super-MU, being able to position her better to take out more enemies on enemy phase and to reach bosses faster. I don't know how reasonable it is to go Dark Pegasus with MU, though. It would probably depend on the difficulty, because I don't know if Dark Pegasus would be survivable enough on Hard mode.

Soloing entire chapters or large parts of them with a flier is definitely not going to be easy. By the last few chapters on Hard Mode, just about every Sniper, Bow Knight, Warrior, or Assassin will have a forged Silver Bow, at least as a secondary weapon, hitting a flier for 51 Mt. It gets even tougher on Lunatic, where the effective Mt goes up to 63 and dodging becomes largely nonexistent. As great a skill as Lightning Speed is, on regular Lunatic runs, I'd avoid Dark Pegasus just because MU is so important that constraining her movement like that just isn't worth it. Not sure how well that'd translate to low-turn runs, but I imagine it stays as a prominent factor.

[Dark Nocturne]

agreed, in my opinion a dark knight is always better than a dark peg because i like the life absorb skill better. tho i do usually have a unit go dark peg anyway, just not any i really like, recently nephenee has been my dark peg.

also id just like to point out that on a run with lots of spotpass and saved my units(they are easy to get cheap if you save them at a low lvl) you have access to any class you want and you by proxy as many grandmasters with rainbow cry as you want. to me thats a pretty good trade off for not have supports. plus alot of spotpass units have extra skills that just make them really good.

[cheetah7071]

I just went through normal mode in an LTC attempt (didn't bother making a status update topic because I completed the entire thing in two sittings; normal mode is trivial if you've played the game before). Got 79 turns, skipping all gaidens.

Basic starategy was to lean on Frederick early while trying to pump all available exp into MU. Trying to raise both Krom and MU isn't really feasible when you don't have the extra exp from gaidens; MU was only at level 20 when I got my first master proof, and barely reached 20/15 in time to pass down rainbow cry to Lucina.

Since this was normal mode, I felt safe going Dark Pegasus instead of Dark Knight, which ended up being a good decision. Lightning Speed is unreal, and bow-users aren't really a threat in normal mode.

The biggest challenges were the late-game rout chapters, since my only competent units were MU and whatever pre-promote had just joined.

I'm fairly confident that sub-73 is impossible--you could probably squeeze a few extra turns out of the early chapters, and can definitely save a turn in the Fauder chapter if you manage to get the boots somehow, but the boss-kill chapters were all basically optimal.

[Anouleth]

Soloing entire chapters or large parts of them with a flier is definitely not going to be easy. By the last few chapters on Hard Mode, just about every Sniper, Bow Knight, Warrior, or Assassin will have a forged Silver Bow, at least as a secondary weapon, hitting a flier for 51 Mt. It gets even tougher on Lunatic, where the effective Mt goes up to 63 and dodging becomes largely nonexistent. As great a skill as Lightning Speed is, on regular Lunatic runs, I'd avoid Dark Pegasus just because MU is so important that constraining her movement like that just isn't worth it. Not sure how well that'd translate to low-turn runs, but I imagine it stays as a prominent factor.

Well, you could always try and get Iote's Shield, but I suppose the additional turns spent in that chapter (which has many strong enemies) would probably outweigh any turns saved by going Dark Pegasus.

[Othin]

Well, you could always try and get Iote's Shield, but I suppose the additional turns spent in that chapter (which has many strong enemies) would probably outweigh any turns saved by going Dark Pegasus.

Well, in addition to the delay from waiting to be ready to challenge a chapter with enemies around LV10 promoted, the chapter itself is the slowest in the game. Unless you've got an army of Slime spammers, you have to wait for all seven doors to open, making for a minimum turncount of like 9. That's a lot, especially on this scale.

And then there's the part where if you're soloing chapters with MU on a higher difficulty level, you're going to want Iote's Shield before becoming a Dark Pegasus in the first place, and you need another 15 levels from there to actually get Lightning Speed. And I should mention that on my untimed Lunatic run, I held off on that chapter until I had already unlocked the Final. It wasn't bad at that point and I'm sure you could do it earlier, but... yeah. For comparison, I took on the first RvB right before Ch21; even with the doors buying time, taking on the enemies was hell. No way I could've done the third at that point to get the skill.

[cheetah7071]

In normal mode at least (where the argument is moot because even a Dark Pegasus MU is sufficiently invincible), going Dark Pegasus saved upwards of 6 turns, mostly in chapter 24, where you really really want a 2-turn clear or reinforcements start spawning all over the map in unfortunate configurations and you're probably looking at a 7-8 turn clear. This is assuming no gaidens; if gaidens are mandatory then you probably have enough exp flowing to have an additional combat-viable character or two (and you definitely have at least Tiki) and can get a 4 turn clear. The two-turn clear still almost certainly requires Lightning Speed on a flier.

Edited November 5, 2012 by cheetah7071