Life's Character rating thread

[Anouleth]

Well, given that Mia and Zihark are both in Mid on the tier list, I'd say that it's fair enough to consider them average.

[BrightBow]

Well, given that Mia and Zihark are both in Mid on the tier list, I'd say that it's fair enough to consider them average.

Average? The only people lower then her are Mages, Generals, Thieves, Rolf and units who come so late that they couldn't get high on the tier list no matter how well they perform in the few chapters they are available.

That's still very bad in my book.

[Chiki]

Scratch that, I'd put Mia a decent amount (a tier) above Zihark as she can reliably cut turns (Boyd is the only other unit who can do this) from 9, 10 and 11.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Aeine

[aku chi]

Only on Maniac is he borderline. With a Str and/or Spd proc, he doubles pretty much everything for the next two chapters where he exists. That's one level for 2 chapters with a lot more coming plus BExp.

Yes, enemies tend to have 0 AS in the early FE9 chapters (but not C2 Myrmidons, so you were incorrect to state that Boyd could double them). But Boyd needs a Str or Spd proc to double them (unlike Ike and Oscar). And I was describing Boyd's situation throughout the game, not the first two chapters. There are plenty of enemies in C7 with 5-7 AS. Boyd would need to be ~level 9 to double the slowest and ~level 13 to double the fastest of these foes. That's pretty much impossible at this point. With the C2 Speedwings, he can double most of these enemies. Consider C17-1. A sniper, a Halberdier, and some Myrmidons have 14 AS. Boyd would need to be an unrealistic ~20/8 to double these foes without the Speedwings but merely level 20/3 with it. Consider now C25. Cats and Tigers here have 18 AS. Without the Speedwings, Boyd would need to be ~level 20/16 to double them. With it, he can be ~level 20/12. Can Boyd double many (perhaps even most) enemies without a Speedwings? Yes. But I stand by my statement that a Speedwings enables Boyd to double many faster enemies throughout the game that he otherwise would not.

Scratch that, I'd put Mia a decent amount (a tier) above Zihark as she can reliably cut turns (Boyd is the only other unit who can do this) from 9, 10 and 11.

Mia can help LTC C10?

Mia can reliably kill the Arrive-square Knight in C11?

Let's not exaggerate Mia's early contributions.

In any event, this rating thread, so far as I can tell, is not focused on LTC clears, so the fact that promoted Mia can shove Ike in C9 and therefore enable a 6-turn clear while recruiting Marcia is probably irrelevant.

[Chiki]

In any event, this rating thread, so far as I can tell, is not focused on LTC clears, so the fact that promoted Mia can shove Ike in C9 and therefore enable a 6-turn clear while recruiting Marcia is probably irrelevant.

Efficiency = LTC with reliability

Is it reliable? Yes.

Mia/Boyd is needed to kill Danomill or the Halberdier on turn 3.

Mia doesn't need to kill the Arrive-square Knight, but she needs to kill something--either that or the boss for the Master Seal, which she can do reliably with some help. The boss is easy to lure.

Edited December 2, 2012 by Aeine

[Constable Reggie]

Wasn't the point of this rating thread (which is to a point, an extension of Snowy's idea) to put less emphasis on ltc-style play?

[eclipse]

I thought the point of this thread was for Life to give us his thoughts on the characters?

(in other words, his opinion reigns supreme in this thread)

[Chiki]

Lol sorry, I went off topic.

For the purposes of this thread, yes, Mia would be worse.

[TheName'sShinon]

I would ask to do Shinon because I only like his FE10 God Sniper form, but even then, doing a review of your favorite character would be kind of obvious, even though I know he's pretty bad in PoR.

[Life]

Do people not know how to read? This is MY thread. I and only I (and may I fucking repeat, DON'T ASK AGAIN BECAUSE I) am doing the reviews.

[Chiki]

No one is going to take you seriously with that attitude.

[Agro]

I am.

[ZemZem]

No one is going to take you seriously with that attitude.

He sounds pretty fucking serious, man.

Anyway, awaiting more ratings. These are really good.

[Mekkah]

It doesn't seem that difficult of a concept to me. If you want to do ratings, make your own thread.

[Life]

To be fair to Aku Chi, I completely forgot about that C2 Speedwing. I added it into Boyd's review (not like it changes his non-existent score).

Rhys:

Rhys got shafted. That's all you can say.

Here's the skinny on Rhys. He's your first healer and a hell of a lot more durable than the next one (who pops up in Chapter 9 as a Level 1 Cleric with E staves). The man basically has a monopoly on any good staff that exists barring benching him when you get him and using Mist instead every chapter. He should be sitting at about C and a half by the time Chapter 9 rolls around (14 Heal/Mend uses for C rank) which SHOULD guarantee him to be your full-time healer. Rhys' Mag growth is 10+60 which is pretty damn good and has a cap of 20 unpromoted and 29 promoted. He also get Light magic which includes Nosferatu tanking after promotion. This should be the dream priest, right?

The thing is that every good point to Rhys is met with an equally bad point. That Level 1 Cleric that comes 7 chapters later? She gets a horse on promotion while Rhys has 6 Move as a Bishop, the same move as fucking unpromoted infantry units; not to mention C Base staves and +4 Mag even with a 10/1 promotion (Mist sits at 12 Mag or so at 10/1). Rhys' Mag growth is groovy pants but the rest of his stats don't share the same luck. His durability is pretty much non-existent (22/0/14 at base with a 40/25/55 spread) so aside from tanking siege tomes and other magical effects, he won't be able to survive Jack Schitt. 4+40 Spd and essentially no Str for his entire life means that Rhys will be doubled with Nosferatu (12 Wt does that to you). And Light Magic is terrible, sharing the same Mt with Wind tomes but less Acc and no effectiveness on anything.

All these factors turn Rhys into a mediocre unit, even with his healing skills. This doesn't mean that he should be neglected whatsoever (abuse him until the start of Chapter 10 for sure) but at that point, it would be a good idea to evaluate whether you want him to stay or would like to see Mist in play instead. Bear in mind that while Mist is forced in 27/2, she is in no way obligated to fight or even stay in the room. Physic is a C Staff and Mist just needs enough BExp (and no actual training in battle) to make it to level 10 and promote using a Master Seal (which usually sit unused anyway). Also, I would recommend giving Rhys an early promotion if you do train him, if only for the +1 Move. You could wait until after he's capped Mag as a priest but it's probably better just to do it at level 10. Rhys' stock goes up with an early promotion, mostly because he gains move and nobody really needs the Master Seals. Even at 20/0, Rhys' combat is unsalvagable so it's better just to aim to be a better healer.

Rhys does have some pretty good supports if you decide to keep him. Keiran loves gaining Atk and Acc off of Rhys' innate Fire and returns Avo back to Rhys to help dodge stuff. The support is 3/6/9 which isn't completely terrible but the problem is the move difference. Titania is the same story but exists longer and can't offer Avo (she gives +1 Def though). Mia enjoys full Atk and has pretty similar Move so that's always an option. Rolf and Ulki are pretty trash so forget about them. Aside from that, there's really nothing else to talk about.

tl;dr On paper, he's better than Mist. In practice, she's better thanks to her extra Move on promotion. It comes down to personal choice. If you use him, give him a 10/1 promotion and forget about his combat.

[Snowy_One]

I've always seen the Mist/Rhys debate as more of 'who else are you using'. Better to decide based on their supporters than on healing abilities when not shooting for LTC.

[Lord Raven]

No one is going to take you seriously with that attitude.

No one ever takes you seriously with that attitude.

[Life]

I've always seen the Mist/Rhys debate as more of 'who else are you using'. Better to decide based on their supporters than on healing abilities when not shooting for LTC.

Yeah but you're the only person here who believes that shit supports still mean something. They really don't unless we're talking about double Earth or other ridiculous stuff.

[Life]

Shinon:

Well, I was regretting getting to this one.

Shinon was on track to being one of the best FE Archers/Snipers ever until IS pulled the plug on that project in Chapter 8 and decided that he'd show up again 10 chapters later with the same base stats as what he left with.

The problem with that idea is that Shinon's bases are anything but spectacular. His stats are slightly better than Boyd's/Oscar's from the start but he starts with 13 Spd and enough Str to not take an AS penalty from Steel. The basic idea is that he's ORKO everything that he sees. 18 MT and 13 AS is really good at the start of the game (Titania is comparison has 20 MT and 14 AS at one range) and that's before looking at Shinon's growths which are WTF ridiculous even if he only gets 19 levels of growth.

Rather than explain why every growth for Shinon is awesome, I'm just going to list them and compare them to Ike's who we already know has growths like a monster. 75 HP (tied), 65 Str (+15 on Ike), 20 Mag (tied), 70 Skl (+20 on Ike), 65 Spd (+10 on Ike), 35 Luck (tied), 50 Def (+10 on Ike) and 40 Res (tied). I'll give you a moment to digest that one.

It all goes wrong in Chapter 8, however, when Shinon decides to abandon the crew for almost a year (10 chapters to be exact). Had Shinon been allowed to grow and fight with the rest of the team, you would have seen one of the greatest IS Snipers to exist since he would be ORKOing from the word go. But Shinon fights only in 3/4/5/7 and then disappears. Which is a shame because the guy had so much potential. Oh and when he returns, he's beyond mediocre due to those bases. Early incarnation of Wolf/Sedgar but done wrong. A Bows is probably the only reason to keep him around since he can at least make up for being terrible by using good bows. Rolf can't even claim that.

Other problems? Bow lock but it's not so bad when you start off promoted (+1 Move). Shitty bases too, I guess (his growths make up for it before Chapter 18). The way you recruit him is also a negative since you need to field Rolf, get him to talk to Shinon and then have Ike kill Shinon to recruit the guy for Chapter 19. Fielding one bad unit to recruit another kinda bothers me but whatever floats your boat, right? Regardless of these small problems, they're all negated by the huge elephant in the room.

tl;dr Trash due to IS being stupid. Great pre-Chapter 8, horrible from 19 onwards. Growths and A Bows are workable if you really want but those base stats are pathetic.

[Snowy_One]

I'm not so sure Shinon would be amazing even if he didn't leave. His endgame stats are about on-par with a swordmaster and he has to deal with bows weaknesses. Upper-mid, possibly high? Maybe.

[Anouleth]

ITT: Life finally realises that all the prepromotes in this game have good growths, seven years after the game comes out.

Also, Shinon really doesn't ORKO everything he sees. 9 strength is embarassingly bad for a prepromote (it's the same as Eyvel), and he needs Steel to 2HKO. Even with Steel I remember him sometimes missing ORKOes.

Also, you miss what made Wolf/Sedgar good. Wolf and Sedgar were good because you could put them in any class and get a character who capped everything. Maybe if Shinon could reclass and capped all his stats, he'd be like Wolf and Sedgar: but Shinon can't reclass and doesn't cap anything. It's not like he even gains levels fast: Wolf/Sedgar reaped the benefits of a revised EXP formula that was generous to promoted units. On paper, he's statistically outright worse than Zihark, and that's before even getting into his shitty class.

[Espinosa]

Shinon can score bosskills pretty easily in some of the chapters he appears in, and since he's somewhat of a growth unit he could really benefit from those 2-3 levels. It's his absence that's his main problem, as pointed out. If he never left, he'd be pretty good in casual efficiency runs where you don't rush every chapter with Paladins/Marcia.

[Life]

Also, Shinon really doesn't ORKO everything he sees. 9 strength is embarassingly bad for a prepromote (it's the same as Eyvel), and he needs Steel to 2HKO. Even with Steel I remember him sometimes missing ORKOes.

He has a Steel Bow and it's locked on him. Who else can use it?

Aside from that, I might have exaggerated on HOW much he ORKOs (because he doubles everything aside from a single Thief). However (and this is to Snowy), the point is that he's the only FE Archer/Sniper that did that when his game first came out (Jamka usually needed a Critical and/or Continue to do that and he's not even the first archer). That's beyond impressive and if he didn't drop off the face of the earth, he could easily be useful for a good three quarters of the game if not more.

[Hawk King]

I completely agree with Shinon. And for the few Armors and bosses that he misses on ORKOing he has a ~36% chance of landing at least 1 critical hit.

[Anouleth]

I completely agree with Shinon. And for the few Armors and bosses that he misses on ORKOing he has a ~36% chance of landing at least 1 critical hit.

Shinon misses 2HKOes on enemies in his starting chapter, so it's more than just a few Armors and bosses. Of the 8 Bandits in Chapter 3, Shinon can only ORKO 5.

And funnily enough, Shinon doesn't kill Armours in Chapter 7 even with a critical hit, so yeah, I feel very justified in finding Shinon unimpressive in earlygame.