Most useful version of the AS system?

[FEAnon]

How exactly do you guys feel about the various versions of the AS system?

[arvilino]

Personally I prefer it where SPD=AS if you mean like in FE12 or FE13 where there is no weapon weight. I think the other two in general the other two are a bit rough on the lower leveled or weaker characters or low con characters with lower strength(such as some GBA Myrmidons) as it traps characters with lower strength or just all around weaker into using iron weapons or losing a large amount of AS.

[FEAnon]

Yeah for Spd = AS, I mean like in the case of FE12 and FE13.

Personally I prefer Str = AS since it at least gives high str, low speed units a little niche for being able to use the heavier weapons earlier than usual unlike in the newer ones where it's mostly a matter of which unit hits their speed cap the fastest.

[Shadow Mir]

I preferred the Str-based AS system because the con-based AS system was just too rough on some units (mages and pegasus knights in particular, though in all fairness, magic weight wasn't too bad in FE6, but that wasn't the case in FE7 and FE8...).

[Anouleth]

I didn't mind the FE4 system too much.

[Integrity]

I'm fond of units being able to mitigate weapon weight, but I didn't like how STR essentially made every weapon's weight 0 past the earliest game in PoR/RD. I guess CON=AS gets my vote, but with a better execution.

EDIT: Frankly though, I didn't mind FE4's system either.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Mr. Sparkles

[Shadow Mir]

I'm fond of units being able to mitigate weapon weight, but I didn't like how STR essentially made every weapon's weight 0 past the earliest game in PoR/RD. I guess CON=AS gets my vote, but with a better execution.

EDIT: Frankly though, I didn't mind FE4's system either.

tbh, the main aspect of the con-based AS system I disliked was how poorly executed it was in the GBA games. (Well, that, and the fact that doubling most enemies was piss easy, and not just because they sucked.) At least in FE5, build was a stat that could be gained on level up...

[riariadne]

Con=AS is good in theory, not awesome in practice.

FE4 also had a good idea, but that could also be executed much better because weight made the weapon balance absolutely atrocious

[Genuine Uncertainty]

The Con system to me is the best, but was executed terribly in the GBA games, especially in regards to the magic tome weights in the 7th and 8th games. It worked pretty well for the melee weapon users though.

Str I'm not a fan of because after the early game, it doesnt matter if the myrmidon is carry around a steel blade (Wt 14) or a slim sword. Which is ridiculous to me. Weapons weight becomes even less relevant in RD because nigh everyone isn't weighed down by weapons.

<div><br></div><div>EDIT: Yeah the pegasi got screwed in the Con system. Myrmidons were ok because most of the time they had enough con to use silver and killer weapons which is enough. at least to me</div>

Edited November 11, 2012 by Machiavelli

[Shadow Mir]

The Con system to me is the best, but was executed terribly in the GBA games, especially in regards to the magic tome weights in the 7th and 8th games. It worked pretty well for the melee weapon users though.

Str I'm not a fan of because after the early game, it doesnt matter if the myrmidon is carry around a steel blade (Wt 14) or a slim sword. Which is ridiculous to me. Weapons weight becomes even less relevant in RD because nigh everyone isn't weighed down by weapons.

Bold: Except pegasus knights, who probably had it even worse than mages.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[FEAnon]

The thing with the Con is system is that it hurts pegs and myrms way too much compared to the other classes though as well as mages in FE7 and FE8. Since order for pegs to not be massively weighed down by anything stronger than iron, they have to kill their ability to rescue people.

If weapon weights for the STR=AS system scaled with the weapon's strength then it would be perfect.

Edited November 11, 2012 by FEAnon

[Integrity]

tbh, the main aspect of the con-based AS system I disliked was how poorly executed it was in the GBA games. (Well, that, and the fact that doubling most enemies was piss easy, and not just because they sucked.) At least in FE5, build was a stat that could be gained on level up...

Hence, "with a better execution." I rather like the idea - in practice - that a beefier unit can use beefier weapons without (or with lessened) penalty.

Rather to the contrary, I wasn't too fond of the implementation of BLD in FE5. I'd rather CON be essentially fixed.

[Shadow Mir]

Hence, "with a better execution." I rather like the idea - in practice - that a beefier unit can use beefier weapons without (or with lessened) penalty.

Rather to the contrary, I wasn't too fond of the implementation of BLD in FE5. I'd rather CON be essentially fixed.

Okay, though personally, I can't see the con-based AS system being executed well.

[dondon151]

con->AS

str->AS is both negligible in the lategame and puts lower leveled characters at a larger disadvantage because they tend to have lower str (thus making it doubly hard for them to catch up)

no weapon WT encourages always choosing higher MT weapons over lower MT weapons. not so bad in FE12 where you need silvers for over half of the game, but it removes depth elsewhere.

[Integrity]

Okay, though personally, I can't see the con-based AS system being executed well.

I certainly see it being executed better than the Str->AS system, at least. Even the way the Con->AS system was executed in FE was better than Str->AS if you want weapon weight to mean anything.

[Shadow Mir]

I certainly see it being executed better than the Str->AS system, at least. Even the way the Con->AS system was executed in FE was better than Str->AS if you want weapon weight to mean anything.

I'll admit, I'm rather biased against the con-based AS system because it screwed over my favorite classes. That being said, I also personally don't mind the AS system the older FEs ran on (speed - weight).

[Integrity]

That being said, I also personally don't mind the AS system the older FEs ran on (speed - weight).

Neither did I, except for the generally-wretched implementation. That's why I mentioned it in the same post as my preference for the CON system.

[Shadow Mir]

Neither did I, except for the generally-wretched implementation. That's why I mentioned it in the same post as my preference for the CON system.

Alrighty. Also, I think it doesn't make any sense for someone who's been raised since early in the game to still be struggling to lift an iron weapon, yet someone who hasn't seen much use can lift, say, a steel axe without much of a problem, just as you think Str esentially negating weight doesn't make sense. Which means we'll have to agree to disagree...

[Sasori]

I don't really like the Str = AS system simply because its starts to become meaningless for physical units and its unkind to mages. Rhys and Soren for example where screwed because they could't wield anything without losing speed and the heavier tomes in general weren't that usefull because of the extra weight. Physical units on the other hand can wield pretty much everything around mid game. The heaviest weapon is the 20 wt hammer and most axe users reach that with ease.

I think the con system is my favorite since its always an issue and yeah its wasn't implemented well, but I believe that it can work if used correctly.

[Shadow Mir]

I don't really like the Str = AS system simply because its starts to become meaningless for physical units and its unkind to mages. Rhys and Soren for example where screwed because they could't wield anything without losing speed and the heavier tomes in general weren't that usefull because of the extra weight. Physical units on the other hand can wield pretty much everything around mid game. The heaviest weapon is the 20 wt hammer and most axe users reach that with ease.

I think the con system is my favorite since its always an issue and yeah its wasn't implemented well, but I believe that it can work if used correctly.

To be fair, though, the Str system didn't affect mages much in RD, with one exception, considering the heaviest tomes were the siege tomes, which you wouldn't want to be caught dead having equipped if they got attacked anyhow.

[Lord Raven]

I prefer Str->AS best but I think weapon weight should be higher and time weight should be a lower

[Integrity]

To be fair, though, the Str system didn't affect mages much in RD, with one exception, considering the heaviest tomes were the siege tomes, which you wouldn't want to be caught dead having equipped if they got attacked anyhow.

For wanting to "agree to disagree" you're sure happy to disagree with everybody who doesn't agree with you.

[eclipse]

I'd say Con = AS, but do something about the gap between Steel and Silver (as in, either give the enemies less Steel or make it harder for the player to get Silvers).

[Sasori]

To be fair, though, the Str system didn't affect mages much in RD, with one exception, considering the heaviest tomes were the siege tomes, which you wouldn't want to be caught dead having equipped if they got attacked anyhow.

True that was more of a problem in fe9. Still starting with 3 str made Sanaki even worse then she already was.

[PKL]

I personally like the spd=AS system because it allows IS to make stronger enemies (with more AS). Never liked the con=AS system because it makes some classes just downright terrible and limits how much AS Intelligent Systems can put in their enemies (since they have to take weapon weight into account when balancing the game). The Str=AS is alright, but there comes a point where it won't matter anymore.

Edited November 11, 2012 by PKL